Does the universe need intelligence to order it?

[Rick O'Shez]

I did. It's from Swami Vivekenanda. Go do your own footwork to verify. I'm not your dog.

Sorry but with all the fake Buddhist quotes and misrepresentations I now have no confidence at all in what you post. I'm sure Swami Vivekenanda said lots of things, but I'm not prepared to believe he said what you claimed he said without a proper reference.

 

[YmirGF]

These insults only further diminish your credibility.

I take it with a grain of salt. The poor lad can't handle the truth about his favorite guru. He has no other real comeback to make.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Enlightenment is like a flash of light that reaches to conception and to death.

Enlightenment is viewed in all sorts of different ways, so which tradition are you referring to here?
Or is a personal view?

 

[YmirGF]

Yes I have, twice, and I refuse to do it again for lazy people who are not paying attention, and just sit there demanding proof when they cannot even defend their own position, and merely condemn everything that does not agree with their stale paradigm as 'New Age' nonsense.

Now go to your room!

*falls off chair laughing*

Oh, that is so incredibly rich....
I think my irony meter just broke.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Yes I have, twice,

No, you haven't. You haven't provided any credible evidence for your claim that "cosmic consciousness" originated in the east.

But I ask again, are you claiming to be enlightened?

 

[YmirGF]

No, you haven't. You haven't provided any credible evidence for your claim that "cosmic consciousness" originated in the east.

But I ask again, are you claiming to be enlightened?

We both know that, technically speaking, this is not a claim he can make. The simple reality is however the only way these wanton assertions have ANY credibility is if he is indeed enlightened. To be fair, he has claimed to be awakened and that the rest of us are still fast asleep in our beds.

 

[YmirGF]

An enlightened blindness is an oxymoron. As I said: no one attains anything. Everyone is already enlightened but some fail to see that they are because of the overpowering presence of Identification.

So, YOU ARE claiming to be enlightened. OK. Now it all makes sense.

You are clever enough to understand that you cannot ever, flat out, say that you are enlightened, but we now have several instances where you go right up to the edge of the abyss and twirl around like a ballerina. Just be honest.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Have I ever?

So you're not claiming to be enlightened? You're actually just as deluded as the rest of us poor fools?

 

[savagewind]

Enlightenment is viewed in all sorts of different ways, so which tradition are you referring to here?
Or is a personal view?

It is a person view from what I think I have seen. I don't read much.

 

[YmirGF]

It is a person view from what I think I have seen. I don't read much.

Evidently...

 

[savagewind]

Evidently...

I must be enlightened for I knew someone might say that. Haha I didn't think to know who. but I might have guessed.

I actually knew someone had criticised my post before clicking that red alert button. Did I know? According to you, no I didn't. But I did.

 

[Robert.Evans]

There is no finite self called 'I' that peels the potatoes. This insight is the experience of universal consciousness. The notion of a self called 'I' that peels the potatoes is conditioned awareness.

This insight is in perfect agreement with the Buddha's teaching of 'no-self, or 'anatta'. Zen people call it 'no-mind'. If there is no finite self, then there is only the conscious universe, because consciousness is what remains without a self.

Okay, I understand this better now. I would put it this way: there is one Consciousness which is everything we see (and don't see) and we also. But I would say we are still an 'I' as regards a person, although I could say it is illusory here as we are really part of the One Consciousness. But that means to me that everything we see here is for the benefit of one person, and one alone. Everything and everybody are there for the benefit of that one person.

Hard concept perhaps?

But I also think there are many different realities so each one of us has there own reality, where exactly the same thing happens. Why is this necessary? Because God has to be Just when he judges. That means that no one can be influenced by something outside of their OWN SELF. Thus the entire universe is for the benefit of one person, but each as there own reality. It the many-world theory of science or similar.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

It's not meant as a personal insult; it's an observation of your anally retentive and repetitive behavior.

Sounds like a personal insult to me. Not at all enlightened really.

 

[YmirGF]

I must be enlightened for I knew someone might say that. Haha I didn't think to know who. but I might have guessed.

Yep. There's no pulling the wool over your eyes.

 

[YmirGF]

Sounds like a personal insult to me. Not at all enlightened really.

More in line with the behavior of an extremely healthy ego.

 

[Robert.Evans]

In his work, "The Meaning of Becoming a Buddha in This Body," Kobo Daishi says,

• 
  "The Six Great-Elements interpenetrate without obstruction and are in eternal union."

This teaches us that the universal life force, which is comprised of the Six Great-Elements, forms the basis of all things that have life as we do, and that we are in a state of harmony in having the same essence as that of the life of the Buddha.

The great element that is the earth refers to how the Earth is the Mother of life on earth. The great element of water is the water of life that gives moisture to all things and nurtures the power of life. The great element of fire is the energy that is possessed by fire, and is the working of life that gives heat and vitality to living things. The great element of wind is best thought of as the breath of the entire universe, it is constant movement. Each breath we take is life itself. The great element of space is the vast and eternal life of the universe that envelops all things. The great element of consciousness is the life of the spirit that is in all things and is the functioning of wisdom.

Shingon Buddhist Intl. Institute: Teachings

Was it you that put the vid of a mystic who was speaking to Dawkins? I think so. His argument was that if we saw spirit in everything, we would not do the things we do to each other and the earth. I think he is right.

 

[savagewind]

God only knows what my family members think of that crazy lady laughing at her screen.

 

[Robert.Evans]

What sounds like 'balderdash' to you, Loon?

Anything, he's a bird.

 

[Robert.Evans]

What makes you think that consciousness is non-material?


Usually when you make any kind of specific claim such as "higher reality" you start off with the basic idea of mysticism but as you get more and more specific you are more and more off base. This has been pointed out to you by current and former mystics in the past. I'm not going to discect all of your posts to lay judgement of what is actually "mystic" and "not mystic".

Actually Aristotle changed the cave. Aristotle proposes that every being is made of "substance" and "quality". The "substance" is what that thing truly is and cannot be subjectively viewed. The Qualities of that substance are what we can see, hear, taste, measure ect. So the idea of the cave is outdated by this in that we aren't seeing a projection on a foreground of some being but we simply are only able to see the qualities of substance.

Though then this breaks down even further when we apply new physics but that was his rebuttal of plato. The depiction of the cave is only as useful as an opening statement to more meaningful philosophical arguments.


Yes. I understand fully what you are saying. However I realize that it looks EXACTLY the same as a system that follows rules rather than an order intellect. We KNOW it follows rules and laws. We know that because that is what the study of physics is. However that means that no intellect is actually required weather ifs an outside force or a self governing force.

You can take all of your spiritually discerned gnostic knowledge and live your life with it but I don't consider it valid. You yourself have stated it cannot be evidenced so why debate it in the first place?

But where do the laws come from that order everything? It seems no better an answer to stop there, and then have even more questions that before. There is science theory that says everything at its fundamental level in consciousness. Scripture has said it or hinted at it for a long long time now.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Yes I have, twice, and I refuse to do it again for lazy people who are not paying attention, and just sit there demanding proof when they cannot even defend their own position, and merely condemn everything that does not agree with their stale paradigm as 'New Age' nonsense.

Now go to your room!

Now I have to say, that is not only good, it was funny...haha