Does the universe need intelligence to order it?

[YmirGF]

If we are not buying into the foreground/background duality, then the statement "we live in an intelligent universe" is questionable.

We are the universe living.

I'm afraid I cannot go as far as saying that, my friend.

 

[apophenia]

I'm afraid I cannot go as far as saying that, my friend.

That's fine Ymir.

"God made mud.
God got lonesome.
So god said to the mud, 'Sit up!'
'See all I made', said God, 'the hills, the sea, the sky, the stars'
And I was some of the mud that got to sit up and look around.
Lucky me, lucky mud
I, mud, sat up and saw what a nice job god had done.
Nice going, God!
Nobody but You could have done it, God! I certainly couldn't have.
I feel very unimportant compared to You.
The only way I can feel the least bit important is to think of all the mud that didn't even get to sit up and look around.
I got so much, and most mud got so little.
Thank You for the honor!
Now the mud lies down again and goes to sleep.
What memories for mud to have!
What interesting other kinds of sitting-up mud I met!
I loved everything I saw!
Good night.
I will go to heaven now.
I can hardly wait..."
-Kurt Vonnegut 'Cat's Cradle'

 

[YmirGF]

"But ultimately" ?

Sure, ultimately - after a substantial period of diligent application of the method, which is not just intellectualising.

If you get it, then you will realise the futility and the misguided error of trying to 'storm heaven' intellectually on a forum.

By all means express your view, as we all do. But IMO, you seem hell-bent on talking yourself and others into satori.

Won't happen.

And that is exactly why we have been asking godnotgod what his methodology is. Precisely. It's all very well to remember the finger wagging at the moon, yadda yadda yadda, but it's a pretty cheap tactic. Explain the process by which this fount of knowledge came into being for those of us are already deemed to be sleeping.

 

[YmirGF]

That's fine Ymir.

"We are the mud that got to sit up and look around. Lucky mud"
-Kurt Vonnegut 'Cat's Cradle'

That, I can revel in. The other idea, not so much.

 

[apophenia]

Padmasambhava said

" I noticed that the world looked like me. So I blessed it. Now it is me"

See ?

Exactly like me

 

[YmirGF]

I have never made any claim about being enlightened, nor have I ever stated what my practice has been. I have not made such a representation. All I have done is to present content for discussion..

Yep, no ego present in that puppy. Notta.

Nary a whiff.

Isn't claiming to having no ego tantamount to declaring that one is enlightened? No doubt I'm misunderstanding - as usual...

 

[YmirGF]

Padmasambhava said

" I noticed that the world looked like me. So I blessed it. Now it is me"

See ?

Exactly like me

Sounds a lot like projection to me... Just sayin'

 

[apophenia]

Sounds a lot like projection to me... Just sayin'

So what is the universe ?

 

[savagewind]

Isn't claiming to having no ego tantamount to declaring that one is enlightened? No doubt I'm misunderstanding - as usual...

I don't think it is no ego. People are their ego. Enlightened might be decribed as beside the ego. I think it is llike splitting the soul into ego and ego's friend.

 

[YmirGF]

Sounds a lot like projection to me... Just sayin'

I was wondering how long it would take to get around to the "I am God" syndrome or state of consciousness, whichever you prefer.

 

[apophenia]

I was wondering how long it would take to get around to the "I am God" syndrome or state of consciousness, whichever you prefer.

God ?
What does that have to do with it ?

Aaaah, Kurt's poem.

No, not theism.

Not even The Ism.

Take a breath. The air 'outside' is instantly 'your body', in biological terms.

Breath out. What was 'your body' is now 'the air'.

This differentiation of 'my body' and 'the universe' is vague, and conceptual,at best.

I'm not talking the usual 'mystical oneness' here ... it's in your face !

And in the toilet bowl .... eek ! that was me a moment ago ! I hope it isn't me now ! LMAO

 

[YmirGF]

So what is the universe ?

Keep in mind, I'm a multiverse freak, so take my answer in that context.

This universe is a very, very, very, very large place seething with diversity of every imaginable kind... and likely much that we cannot imagine. Make that one, of billions, hundreds of billions, of universes in a far larger multiverse and then consider human animals wandering through their days, that in contrast, are very, very, very, very small potatoes.

 

[YmirGF]

God ?
What does that have to do with it ?

Aaaah, Kurt's poem.

No, not theism.

Not even The Ism.

Take a breath. The air 'outside' is instantly 'your body', in biological terms.

Breath out. What was 'your body' is now 'the air'.

This differentiation of 'my body' and 'the universe' is vague, and conceptual,at best.

I'm not talking the usual 'mystical oneness' here ... it's in your face !

And in the toilet bowl .... eek ! that was me a moment ago ! I hope it isn't me now ! LMAO

OK.... this thread had me wrapped up in the whole intelligence aspect.... giving what you are saying and how you mean it, yes, I will go along with that. When you start to tell me that the smoke I exhale is intelligent, I think we will have to agree to disagree.


"And I am you and what I see is me" from Echoes by Punk Floyd
"I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together." from I am the Penguin by the Ruttles.

 

[godnotgod]

OK. A Thought. The foreground, of course, is God and God is Father, meaning we are children, and a father never abandons his children, so that makes us WITH God in the foreground as well as in the background.

Is that your experience, or your belief?

 

[apophenia]

Keep in mind, I'm a multiverse freak, so take my answer in that context.

This universe is a very, very, very, very large place seething with diversity of every imaginable kind... and likely much that we cannot imagine. Make that one, of billions, hundreds of billions, of universes in a far larger multiverse and then consider human animals wandering through their days, that in contrast, are very, very, very, very small potatoes.

And I am Mr Potato-head.


I am the egg, man.

And you are the egg, men !

I AM the wall, Russ !

 

[godnotgod]

"But ultimately" ?

Sure, ultimately - after a substantial period of diligent application of the method, which is not just intellectualising.

If you get it, then you will realise the futility and the misguided error of trying to 'storm heaven' intellectually on a forum.

By all means express your view, as we all do. But IMO, you seem hell-bent on talking yourself and others into satori.

Won't happen.

True, but that's not my intent. My intent is only to address the relationship of man to the universe.

 

[apophenia]

It's a magical mystery to us

 

[YmirGF]

And I am Mr Potato-head.


I am the egg, man.

And you are the egg, men !

I AM the wall, Russ !

I do love you, you wacky guy.

 

[apophenia]

When you start to tell me that the smoke I exhale is intelligent, I think we will have to agree to disagree..

Captain Beefheart is quite passionate about that

 

[godnotgod]

Padmasambhava said

" I noticed that the world looked like me. So I blessed it. Now it is me"

See ?

Exactly like me

It never was not me.