Does the world need religion?

[leahrachelle]

It is my belief that all intelligent people (Atheists, Agnostics, and Theists) are aware of the evidence within (oughtness) that leads them to greatly suspect that we are obligated to someone who we call God. People hold to many reasons for refusing to believe that God exists and our obligation to Him. What I have found is that the reason for most of these intelligent people for not believing, is that there is no scientific means for determining that such a being exists. For them, strong suspicion backed with this non-scientific evidence, is not enough. They have been unconsciously conditioned against being spiritually reborn.

Okay thank you for clearing that up.
Sorry I assumed.

 

[ChristineES]

Faith or lack of faith does not determine the intelligence of people.

Some people need physical evidence to believe in something while others do not. It is as simple as that.

 

[BaronVonKaiser]

The big problem with religion is that it does not answer to law, it provides people with a convenient excuse, a 'higher power', with which to do what they want. This is very dangerous, detrimental to society and has caused so much death in the world it's not even funny. This is why I would suggest that no only does the world not need religion but it would, in fact, be so much better off without it. no longer could entire races of people be wiped off of the earth in the name of god, and individuals might finally be forced to take responsibility for their own actions instead of passing the buck onto whatever religious figurehead they might have.

 

[BaronVonKaiser]

It is my belief that all intelligent people (Atheists, Agnostics, and Theists) are aware of the evidence within (oughtness) that leads them to greatly suspect that we are obligated to someone who we call God. People hold to many reasons for refusing to believe that God exists and our obligation to Him. What I have found is that the reason for most of these intelligent people for not believing, is that there is no scientific means for determining that such a being exists. For them, strong suspicion backed with this non-scientific evidence, is not enough. They have been unconsciously conditioned against being spiritually reborn.

I have to respond to this as well, as an agnostic I take offense to your ridiculous notion that I "grealy suspect that I am obligated to someone you call God." Especially on the pretense that I have been unconsciously conditioned against it. I was brainwashed as a child to believe in god. And only by the power of logic and common sense was I able to finally come to the point where I can see a god concept as being as incredibly far fetched as it is. I'll never understand how so many people will take what they don't understand, label it god and pray to it.

 

[ChristineES]

For some people, BaronVonKaiser, yes that can be true- some people may use religion to get to do what they want in the name of God (which is unfortunate for people who don't do that). But that can be true of any group. I once saw a police car flash it's lights whenever he came to a red light so it didn't have to stop- the police officer driving was using his status as a police officer to not have to stop at red lights like everyone else.
I don't believe the world would be better off without religion. It would be better without people who take advantage of their situation with religion (such as the crusades).

 

[methylatedghosts]

I'm more sure about religion needing the world, than I am about the world needing religion.

 

[BaronVonKaiser]

I think you might be describing a utopian world Christine, and as wonderful as it might sound to you I don't think everyone is going to just suddenly smarten up and stop using the power they have available to them for their own gains.

Not sure if you meant to or realized, but I believe you just compared genocide in the name of a religion to a cop running a red light in the name of the law. Frankly police that abuse their powers irritate me to no end, but I have to say that I would still take that over having my entire ethnic group murdered by someone cause their god told them it needed to be done. The very idea of having a religion that gives it's followers the ability to ignore the law is just plain twisted.

If God appeared to you personally, told you to strap explosives to yourself and walk into a mall and blow people to pieces, would you do it? If you are truly religious and if you sincerely believed that your vision of God was genuine I have a feeling you just might. And that right there is the problem with religion.

 

[methylatedghosts]

If God appeared to you personally, told you to strap explosives to yourself and walk into a mall and blow people to pieces, would you do it? If you are truly religious and if you sincerely believed that your vision of God was genuine I have a feeling you just might. And that right there is the problem with religion.

*giggles*

I would question any god that requests me doing anything
And I would question my own sanity, for here I am, talking to whatever it is in front of me, calling itself God, and no-one else can see it

And I think you're reading too much into the cop-car thing..

It was only an example of people in positions of power abusing that power.

 

[BaronVonKaiser]

Yeah, I might have gone a little far with the cop car, but that was sort of the point I was going for. Our legal system can be twisted in unfortunate ways, but at least with our legal system and all it's flaws, your still not going to get a government sanction to destroy an entire race of people. Only religion claims to have the power to order such a thing... and unfortunately it has the odasity to use it.

 

[ChristineES]

I wasn't trying to compare a law breaking police officer to genocide- I was saying that people use power in different levels for different things- a lot of it bad stuff. Maybe a better example would have been a police officer shooting people and killing them when he or she didn't have to but I had no direct reference to that. I don't believe for one second that God told terrorists to their face to strap bombs and blow themselves up to kill hundreds or thousands of people, and people can use any excuse at all to kill people- not just religion.
Religion itself doesn't cause anything, but a certain, limited amount of individuals who follow that religion do- and unfortunately, sometimes people are brainwashed into helping them (usually weak spirited people).
Hate never solved anything, it just causes more hatred and more violence and more genocide and more death.

If God appeared to you personally, told you to strap explosives to yourself and walk into a mall and blow people to pieces, would you do it?

I don't believe for one second that God would tell me to blow up innocent people- not the God I worship so your question is irrelevant.
But realize I do understand why some people are so hard on religion and I am more angry at the people who give religion a bad name in the name of religion and use God as an excuse to promote hate and violence.

 

[leahrachelle]

I have to respond to this as well, as an agnostic I take offense to your ridiculous notion that I "grealy suspect that I am obligated to someone you call God." Especially on the pretense that I have been unconsciously conditioned against it. I was brainwashed as a child to believe in god. And only by the power of logic and common sense was I able to finally come to the point where I can see a god concept as being as incredibly far fetched as it is. I'll never understand how so many people will take what they don't understand, label it god and pray to it.

I love this

 

[ChristineES]

There are some of us who 1. were raised with no religion (I certainly was raised without any religion). 2. Who don't use God to explain the unexplainable (although I know that some folks do.)

 

[BaronVonKaiser]

I was just saying that even if you are not taught from a young age to follow a particular religion, it would be unusual to be completely unbiased about them as most people have heard the concept of religion, have encountered it in at least a few different forms by the time they have grown.

ChristineES, You said that you were raised without any religion. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, that you were unbiased towards any and all religions, I'm very curious to here what argument you were presented with that made you adopt the faith for yourself, especially if it had nothing to do with the unknown (things like, why are we here, where did we come from) Would you mind sharing what it was that did attract you to your chosen religion? I think it might be useful to hear that perspective in a debate about whether or not the world needs it.

 

[Sunstone]

The world doesn't need religion, but religion is not going away any time soon; It is too deeply rooted in human nature. Having said all that, it would be nice if the world had better plumbing and sewage treatment -- that's something it does need.

 

[zenzero]

Friends,
Let us see it this way:
Religion is not christianity. muslim, jews etc.
Religion merely a path or a way.
Whatever one THINKS is in itself a PATH eg. a scientists thinks in a way about his research so that is his path that is his religion.
So Religion always will BE.
God as a concept is no more required to be used is for sure.
Those who still likes to use the concept for them it is available always but surely humans have evolved further in this matter and knows better concepts , more useful at this time.
Personally RELIGION remains forever God concept is not required.
Love & rgds

 

[ChristineES]

ChristineES, You said that you were raised without any religion. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, that you were unbiased towards any and all religions, I'm very curious to here what argument you were presented with that made you adopt the faith for yourself, especially if it had nothing to do with the unknown (things like, why are we here, where did we come from) Would you mind sharing what it was that did attract you to your chosen religion? I think it might be useful to hear that perspective in a debate about whether or not the world needs it.

Actually, it didn't happen all at once but was a gradual thing. My mother was an agnostic for all of my early childhood and teen years. We didn't go to Church on Sundays like other families and things like that. My mom made fun of TV evangelists. When I was about 13, I became a devout agnostic (I don't know what I was before that, ) but believed that if there was a god, it would be a force of some kind or maybe I was sort of a Deist (I never had heard that term until much but if I had maybe I would have used it then). I never talked to anyone about my beliefs- we had moved to Colorado Springs and the high school I attended was nearly all Fundamentalist Christian (and yes, they did irritate me on occasion). I felt embarrassed to tell them I didn't know if there was a god or not- that they would judge me or something. I am not sure what happened or how it happened-but gradually I began to believe that maybe there was a God. And I think the only reason I chose to follow Jesus is because that was what I knew best- there were a few Jews in my school but that was it outside of Christianity. My stepfather was raised a Buddhist but he never really spoke of it much. I finally made the decision after I graduated from high school to follow Jesus. I read the Bible, but never went to Church until later- which always seems to explain why my Christian ideas are different from any Churches I have been to . If I had been raised in another place- I would have become a different faith, probably- like Hinduism if I lived in India, or whatever.
I know that was kind of long winded and I am sorry about that.

 

[BaronVonKaiser]

And I think the only reason I chose to follow Jesus is because that was what I knew best- there were a few Jews in my school but that was it outside of Christianity.

It seems that even you admit that enviromental conditioning had a lot to do with your choosing to follow a particular religion. And so it is with most people. I don't think that in and of itself is a good reason to empower a religious a group. I still feel myself that religions in general can be extremely dangerous, anything that takes responsibility out of the hands of the individual and places it into some unseen and unknown force whose will and desires are completely subject to personal interpretation.

 

[tigrers99]

It seems that even you admit that enviromental conditioning had a lot to do with your choosing to follow a particular religion. And so it is with most people. I don't think that in and of itself is a good reason to empower a religious a group. I still feel myself that religions in general can be extremely dangerous, anything that takes responsibility out of the hands of the individual and places it into some unseen and unknown force whose will and desires are completely subject to personal interpretation.

So true BVK.

Think of the Nazis and what Josep Stalin did in 1932-33. He killed millions more people than Hitler did: Soviet famine of 1932–1933 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Could you clarify what you meant by your stating "...anything that takes responsiblity out of the hands of the individual...." in your post. Responsibility to who or what? That is, if my posts are nt to 'offensive' to you

 

[BaronVonKaiser]

Could you clarify what you meant by your stating "...anything that takes responsiblity out of the hands of the individual...." in your post. Responsibility to who or what? That is, if my posts are nt to 'offensive' to you

Don't mind if I do, I think I may have had a similar comment elsewhere, but it seems to me that religion is often used as a tool to commit acts of incredible evil with a clear conscience. This is what I mean by taking responsibilty out of the hands of the individual, it's not you that drags your son up to an alter and stabs him hoping that an angel will stop you at the last second, it's god that told you to do it. You don't have to feel guilty for murdering men women and children of a different faith, because it was ordained by god that you do so. It is unusual (unfortunately not unheard of) for someone to convince themselves that murdering people is ok, there are psychopaths out there that somehow aren't bothered by the prospect. But to get an entire group of people, a massive army of individuals, and convince them that commiting genocide is acceptable, what else besides religion has that power.

 

[challupa]

Don't mind if I do, I think I may have had a similar comment elsewhere, but it seems to me that religion is often used as a tool to commit acts of incredible evil with a clear conscience. This is what I mean by taking responsibilty out of the hands of the individual, it's not you that drags your son up to an alter and stabs him hoping that an angel will stop you at the last second, it's god that told you to do it. You don't have to feel guilty for murdering men women and children of a different faith, because it was ordained by god that you do so. It is unusual (unfortunately not unheard of) for someone to convince themselves that murdering people is ok, there are psychopaths out there that somehow aren't bothered by the prospect. But to get an entire group of people, a massive army of individuals, and convince them that commiting genocide is acceptable, what else besides religion has that power.

Good post. I would like to add that most psychopaths know and acknowledge that killing is not right. They just choose to ignore that because it doesn't mean anything to them. However, when religions kill in the name of their God, many of them do not acknowledge that it is wrong and even go so far as to label it as god's will and therefore justifiably right and a foregone conclusion that god's will must be acted upon. This is just as dangerous as the psychopath that acknowledge killing is wrong, but just don't care.

Of course most would say that's not religion but those using religion to further their manmade agendas. While I agree that's exactly what it is, it is still people justifying killing in God's name and that is what gives all religion a bad rap.