Does the world need religion?

[BaronVonKaiser]

Of course most would say that's not religion but those using religion to further their manmade agendas. While I agree that's exactly what it is, it is still people justifying killing in God's name and that is what gives all religion a bad rap.

I would concur with this. I'm reminded of the old saying, "absolute power corrupts absolutely". In places where religion is law we still to this day see endless wars and countless deaths as a result. This is because in those places religion still has power. In western society especially religion has certainly lost a great deal of it's power, we probably have Thomas Jefferson to thank for that, the seperation of church and state and all. But I don't think for a second that religion would forgo using the power it's given. Even right here in north america we have parents denying their children life saving blood transfusions on religious grounds, etc. And it is that very act of replacing law and common sense with religious belief that leads me to think that the less of it we have, the better.

 

[dawny0826]

I believe the world needs more love. More compassion. LESS apathy.

We can make our world a better place by getting off our arses and doing something about it. Too many choose to do NOTHING and then sit back and complain.

I'm a spiritual person more than I am a religious person. I don't need religion but I do need Christ's spirit in my life.

 

[BaronVonKaiser]

I'm a spiritual person more than I am a religious person. I don't need religion but I do need Christ's spirit in my life.

And if not religion, where did this concept of "Christ" come from? I'm guessing that you aren't using the bible as your reference, because that would seem to oppose your "More compassion" philosophy. One need not search very hard to find countless examples of murder, genocide and mass destruction ordained by that book. So where then does this idea of Christ's spirit come from and how did you come to be so dependant on it?

 

[dawny0826]

And if not religion, where did this concept of "Christ" come from? I'm guessing that you aren't using the bible as your reference, because that would seem to oppose your "More compassion" philosophy. One need not search very hard to find countless examples of murder, genocide and mass destruction ordained by that book. So where then does this idea of Christ's spirit come from and how did you come to be so dependant on it?

I'm not overly religious in the sense that I don't really subscribe to a specific religious denomination, specific traditions.

Of course, my acceptance of Christ stems from my acceptance of a religious system. The Bible is my holy book. But I don't embrace all aspects of the system.

 

[BaronVonKaiser]

The Bible is my holy book. But I don't embrace all aspects of the system.

I don't mean to pick on you in particular of course, but if I'm reading you right it seems that you are attempting to be an advocate of the need for religion while at the same time not condoning it's actions and rules. I'm not quite sure I follow how it is you justify this or where the distinction is. For instance, in your holy book, it explains how god gave his chosen people, the Isrealites land that was occupied by other people, he commanded them to slaughter men women and children and move on in. This does not seem condusive to the compassion you mentioned earlier. So if you respect this as the will of your Christ spirit then is the continued fighting over those same pieces of land part of your spirituality?
I'm just using this as an example to get a better understanding of where spirituality and Christ's spirit ends and where religion begins.

 

[dawny0826]

I don't mean to pick on you in particular of course, but if I'm reading you right it seems that you are attempting to be an advocate of the need for religion while at the same time not condoning it's actions and rules. I'm not quite sure I follow how it is you justify this or where the distinction is. For instance, in your holy book, it explains how god gave his chosen people, the Isrealites land that was occupied by other people, he commanded them to slaughter men women and children and move on in. This does not seem condusive to the compassion you mentioned earlier. So if you respect this as the will of your Christ spirit then is the continued fighting over those same pieces of land part of your spirituality?
I'm just using this as an example to get a better understanding of where spirituality and Christ's spirit ends and where religion begins.

I suppose it really depends on how one defines religion. I am religious but I don't rely much on the trappings of religious traditions, assemblies, customs, etc. I hope that makes sense.

In truth, I'll have to mull over your question because I'm not really sure how to answer. They're good questions.

 

[BaronVonKaiser]

Fair enough, I think it's relevant to the topic of, does the world needing religion, I don't imagine spirituality is the same thing as religion but I honestly am not sure what the difference is. Can you have spirituality without religion?

 

[challupa]

Fair enough, I think it's relevant to the topic of, does the world needing religion, I don't imagine spirituality is the same thing as religion but I honestly am not sure what the difference is. Can you have spirituality without religion?

Yes I think you can have spirituality without religion. Or maybe it would be better to say without "organized" religion. I don't feel a Christ spirit like Dawny, but I do feel connected to something I can't explain. I really don't think the world needs religion the way it has become. I have a feeling religion was once a very different thing before power and agendas, probably more like spirituality that people feel, that connection to something they can't explain, but leaves them with a good feeling and a sense of awe.

 

[England my lionheart]

Yes I think you can have spirituality without religion. Or maybe it would be better to say without "organized" religion. I don't feel a Christ spirit like Dawny, but I do feel connected to something I can't explain. I really don't think the world needs religion the way it has become. I have a feeling religion was once a very different thing before power and agendas, probably more like spirituality that people feel, that connection to something they can't explain, but leaves them with a good feeling and a sense of awe.

Well put Challupa,as you say spirituality is something positive whereas some organised religions are corrupt so to answer "Does the world need religion" is the Pope a Protestant

 

[tigrers99]

Interesting topic. We have found that societies do not need religion as a motivation to perform genocides. Consider Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, etc., etc., etc. Societies do need religion as a means to consistently maintain very high ethics, such as transparency in Gov, etc., and public benevolence, such as providing healthcare to the indigent, etc. The individual and society needs religion to explain oughtness that such Apologists as C.S. Lewis writes; "is pressing on us" in his book Mere Christianity. Since there is no natural need for it to exist. In religion we have an answer as to why the individual and society as a whole, think and carry out such unnatural destruction upon our species, and why some have chosen to think and carry out such unnatural blessings upon our own species.

 

[challupa]

Interesting topic. We have found that societies do not need religion as a motivation to perform genocides. Consider Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, etc., etc., etc. Societies do need religion as a means to consistently maintain very high ethics, such as transparency in Gov, etc., and public benevolence, such as providing healthcare to the indigent, etc. The individual and society needs religion to explain oughtness that such Apologists as C.S. Lewis writes; "is pressing on us" in his book Mere Christianity. Since there is no natural need for it to exist. In religion we have an answer as to why the individual and society as a whole, think and carry out such unnatural destruction upon our species, and why some have chosen to think and carry out such unnatural blessings upon our own species.

I don't agree with the assessment that society needs religion in order to do what is right. That is an old worn out belief. While some of those you mentioned may not have had a particular religion, Hitler did. He was a Roman Catholic, read the bible and felt it justified his genocide of the Jews because they had killed Jesus. He also had watched the actions of RCC for hundreds of years segregating and persecuting Jews so he felt he was doing was a service to the world and his religion. While I don't believe religion is the only reason for horrific acts in this world, I do believe it is responsible for quite a few of them. We get our points of view from religion and they form a mindset. That mindset can go either way. For some it makes them good compassionate people and for others it justifies the atrocities because they are doing it in God's name. A secular society is the only way to protect everyone's right to having rights imo.

 

[Storm]

I don't agree with the assessment that society needs religion in order to do what is right. That is an old worn out belief.

I think it was more subtle than that. One of religion's traditional roles is to dream of something better for us to work towards. That's not to say that that role can't be filled by somthing else.

While some of those you mentioned may not have had a particular religion, Hitler did. He was a Roman Catholic, read the bible and felt it justified his genocide of the Jews because they had killed Jesus. He also had watched the actions of RCC for hundreds of years segregating and persecuting Jews so he felt he was doing was a service to the world and his religion.

Ugh, not this again. If Hitler was such a devout Catholic, why were Norse paganism and the occult so deeply entrenched in Nazi culture?

 

[England my lionheart]

I think it was more subtle than that. One of religion's traditional roles is to dream of something better for us to work towards. That's not to say that that role can't be filled by somthing else.


Ugh, not this again. If Hitler was such a devout Catholic, why were Norse paganism and the occult so deeply entrenched in Nazi culture?

Hitler was believe it or not pro Chtistian and had to be,he did hate the clergy but it was Rosenberg who wanted to start a new neo pagan religion

 

[Storm]

Hitler was a f***ing lunatic. Catholicism cannot be blamed for him.

 

[England my lionheart]

Hitler was a f***ing lunatic. Catholicism cannot be blamed for him.

Who's blaming Catholicism,and yes he was a ing lunatic and so were the whole Nazi party

 

[Storm]

Challupa, at least I thought so.

 

[England my lionheart]

Challupa, at least I thought so.

I don't think he meant that Catholicsm was to blame but Hitlers interpretation of it,the Jews throughout history were persecuted because Christians which were mainly Catholics thought they killed Jesus,he was very backward because this was a belief from the middle ages.

 

[rojse]

From a non-religious view:
In my opinion, we may or may not have a bigger purpose . Since we don't know what it is, We seem to just be sitting her repopulating the earth for no reason, but there is so much more out there and we know so very little about the universe around us. If we were supposed to know what our purpose is, though, I think that we would.

Perhaps part of our purpose is to find said purpose.

 

[Sunstone]

Hi Tigrers!

Societies do need religion as a means to consistently maintain very high ethics, such as transparency in Gov, etc., and public benevolence, such as providing healthcare to the indigent, etc.

I'm afraid that is simply untrue.

The individual and society needs religion to explain oughtness that such Apologists as C.S. Lewis writes; "is pressing on us" in his book Mere Christianity.

In my opinion, C.S. Lewis is both very popular and a gifted writer, but he is not a serious thinker on the subject of religion.

Since there is no natural need for it to exist. In religion we have an answer as to why the individual and society as a whole, think and carry out such unnatural destruction upon our species, and why some have chosen to think and carry out such unnatural blessings upon our own species.

I believe your notion of what is natural and unnatural to our species is uninformed by current science.

 

[BaronVonKaiser]

Interesting topic. We have found that societies do not need religion as a motivation to perform genocides. Consider Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, etc., etc., etc. Societies do need religion as a means to consistently maintain very high ethics, such as transparency in Gov, etc., and public benevolence, such as providing healthcare to the indigent, etc.

Yeah, as has been mentioned, where else does a madman like Hitler get his ideas from to wipe out a race of people and to persecute those of a different religion than his own if not from the Catholic Church that said prayers for him in the Vatican every year on his Birthday, and from 1000's of years of the human race being conditioned to believe that any atrocity is acceptable so long as there is a supernatural need for it.

Stalin was the same story, but even more so. The czars were not conisdered just leaders, they were more than that, they were divine, they were the link between the people and god. And Stalin made full use of it. People had been taught by 1000's of years of tradition that a life of servitude and unquestioning obedience to a higher power was acceptable, whats a czar to do but take up that mantle and make full use of it.

These are not the attitudes that secularism breeds, these are made possible only by the continuing insistance of religious peoples to be enslaved by a higher power.