Draw Muhammad day

[Gharib]

Dry those tear-soaked eyes, son.

Nice post.

 

[Gharib]

No, the answer was not an answer to the question I presented.

You mean it wasn't what you wanted to hear? OK

 

[Gharib]

Don't worry, I'm not going to take your crown. Besides, I was only returning the favor to him.

Thanks that means a lot

 

[Gharib]

Well actually another purpose may be to prove that one persons firmly held beliefs can be another persons joke and vice versa. Another purpose could be for everyone to be tolerant, but that takes an attitude beyond many.

That's a very skewed way of viewing it.

 

[Gharib]

Hello Mr. Pot, how are you today? :clap

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/general-religious-debates/132790-newbieitus-vapidexia.html

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...eligious-people-more-disgustingly-stupid.html

You don't have anything better to say?

 

[Gharib]

By offending as many innocent bystanders as possible? Yes, I agree that's how some ideas evolve.

How dare you, it's called freedom of speech by the ignorant, don't mock them like that.

 

[839311]

So, i was addressing your words, and your argument, about targeting Muslims as a whole.

You misunderstood the context of muslims when I said that. Its like the example with the Americans invading Vietnam.

You've already made a similar even wider argument of the message being sent to everyone in general. And i've already addressed that and clarified why it doesn't actually address my point.

I've already clarified that its fine to say that.

Nope, thats not what i said or am saying, and i've already clarified what i'm saying.

And i think you're simply doing the best you can to misrepresent what i say and blur the issue.

There aren't a lot of details to this. I asked you specific questions, questions needing of specific answers, to which you replied with a generalized response. I clarified that i am specifically looking for addressing this beyond the general approach, as that is where the entire point lays (which was clear from the start, as i've already shared and clarified that multiple times). Yet you continue to avoid stating the obvious as best as possible.

Nope, just trying to have an honest, and accurate discussion (one that also has a purpose, which at this point, unfortunately doesn't seem to be the case).

This conversation has become a blurred mess. It seems that we are both misunderstanding each other a lot. Im certainly not misrepresenting what your saying. To me it appears that your contradicting yourself at times. Im really not sure what Ive been debating with you for some time now lol. Hopefully the next time we debate the ideas will be clear. Seeing as were not making any more progress, its time to end this conversation. Cheerio.

 

[England my lionheart]

How dare you, it's called freedom of speech by the ignorant, don't mock them like that.

Its also called freedom of speech as set in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:
Article 19.

• Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

Now some people may not like how others use that freedom,myself included,in the UK we hear the BNP with their racist nonsense,Islam for the UK insulting our dead Soldiers as their bodies are brought back home,the Pope when he visits,an anti Atheist and secular clergy,the list goes on but i wouldn't want to live in a society where freedom of speech/expression only applied to certain topics.

 

[Badran]

You misunderstood the context of muslims when I said that. Its like the example with the Americans invading Vietnam.

I didn't misunderstand at all. It was a response that was avoiding the actual purpose of my questions, and i clarified that.

I also clarified multiple times that it is fine to say that in some contexts, just not in this one. For reasons i shared.

This conversation has become a blurred mess.

I can't say i'm surprised.

It seems that we are both misunderstanding each other a lot. Im certainly not misrepresenting what your saying. To me it appears that your contradicting yourself at times.

To me it appears like you were just unnecessarily avoiding the actual point and going around it as much as possible.

That said, we might just be misunderstanding each other. People lose track sometimes when the debated points become a lot.

Im really not sure what Ive been debating with you for some time now lol. Hopefully the next time we debate the ideas will be clear. Seeing as were not making any more progress, its time to end this conversation. Cheerio.

Cool, thanks for taking the time to discuss the topic anyway.

 

[A Troubled Man]

Thats not to say that Muslims don't have special 'needs' in this regard, and that as a result Muhammad might be generally depicted much less, if at all.

As such, while offending people generally, or doing something that others don't like isn't necessarily bad, responding with something that does step over that special 'need' of Muslims, while knowing that it would also include such an amount of hateful messages (although that is not the goal) by bigots who inescapably take advantage of the day to have some fun, might not be a good idea.

It is those "special needs" you refer that are exactly the issue, equal rights with the point of "hateful messages" being at the heart of the matter, because when it comes to rights, Muslims should not be allowed "special needs" just like everyone else.

 

[A Troubled Man]

I think anyone who thinks "anyone who is opposed by Draw Mohammad Day has serious issues about freedom" is the one who has serious issues about freedom.

That IS the point, Muslims want to have their freedoms but don't want others to have the same freedoms. That most certainly is a serious issue.

 

[beenie]

That IS the point, Muslims want to have their freedoms but don't want others to have the same freedoms. That most certainly is a serious issue.

I would appreciate it if you would stop clumping all Muslims into one compartmentalized stereotype you have. A few of us have repeatedly expressed that we don't agree with censoring others, are you not seeing that?

I personally don't care if you draw a cartoon of Muhammad. I don't have to view it if I don't want to; it's as simple as that.

But you can't tell me or anyone else they don't have the right to be offended...so long as they react peacefully. That's not special treatment, it's perfectly within our rights to dislike something...just as it's your right to disagree with Muslims and draw more cartoons.

Did I state that clear enough now?

Never have I seen a debate go around and around so much even when people agree.

 

[FearGod]

Its also called freedom of speech as set in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:
Article 19.

• Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

Now some people may not like how others use that freedom,myself included,in the UK we hear the BNP with their racist nonsense,Islam for the UK insulting our dead Soldiers as their bodies are brought back home,the Pope when he visits,an anti Atheist and secular clergy,the list goes on but i wouldn't want to live in a society where freedom of speech/expression only applied to certain topics.

i can't understand how they got the freedom in opinion regardless of frontiers.

Can i say for example that all atheists in my opinion are Imbeciles and their minds are a little
bit improved which shows us a good evidence that they are the only ones who were
evolved from the same ancestor of Chimps.

Can we regard this as free of speech and showing an opinion even though it may hurt.

i am showing an example,i didn't mean to insult and you can delete it if you would like.

 

[Riverwolf]

i can't understand how they got the freedom in opinion regardless of frontiers.

Can i say for example that all atheists in my opinion are Imbeciles and their minds are a little
bit improved which shows us a good evidence that they are the only ones who were
evolved from the same ancestor of Chimps.

Can we regard this as free of speech and showing an opinion even though it may hurt.

i am showing an example,i didn't mean to insult and you can delete it if you would like.

Understood.

Yes, under the article, you can legally say that. Likewise, someone is legally allowed to criticize you for saying it.

There are only a few things that aren't allowed to be said, and they're things that cause immediate and measurable harm, such as yelling "fire" in a crowded building.

 

[A Troubled Man]

But you can't tell me or anyone else they don't have the right to be offended...so long as they react peacefully. That's not special treatment, it's perfectly within our rights to dislike something...just as it's your right to disagree with Muslims and draw more cartoons.

Unfortunately, the Muslim community successfully lobbied to have my right to disagree with Muslims and draw more cartoons with the passing of this resolution...

Declaration on the Elimination of All Forms of Intolerance and of Discrimination Based on Religion or Belief, G.A. res. 36/55, 36 U.N. GAOR Supp. (No. 51) at 171, U.N. Doc. A/36/684 (1981).

 

[FearGod]

Understood.

Yes, under the article, you can legally say that. Likewise, someone is legally allowed to criticize you for saying it.

There are only a few things that aren't allowed to be said, and they're things that cause immediate and measurable harm, such as yelling "fire" in a crowded building.

Understood.,somehow like saying :
Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me.

similarly drawings will never hurt anyone.

That was my opinion when i saw the trouble caused by such drawings,i said Prophet
Mohammed pbuh had changed the history that all the world know him and many
believed him as a messenger of god.

will a drawing change any facts,or will it make the artist better than him through the history.

Like saying after 100 years "so and so" had changed the history by drawing a funny picture for mohammed.

 

[beenie]

Unfortunately, the Muslim community successfully lobbied to have my right to disagree with Muslims and draw more cartoons with the passing of this resolution...

Declaration on the Elimination of All Forms of Intolerance and of Discrimination Based on Religion or Belief, G.A. res. 36/55, 36 U.N. GAOR Supp. (No. 51) at 171, U.N. Doc. A/36/684 (1981).

Well I didn't sign it or participate in it, so I have no control over what others did, nor do you. That's just the way the world goes sometimes. You can start another movement if you want to, with petitions and the like. That's your right.

I still oppose you clumping us all into one group, because as you can see, Muslims are just like every other group, with all sorts of differing opinions.

 

[England my lionheart]

i can't understand how they got the freedom in opinion regardless of frontiers.

Can i say for example that all atheists in my opinion are Imbeciles and their minds are a little
bit improved which shows us a good evidence that they are the only ones who were
evolved from the same ancestor of Chimps.

Can we regard this as free of speech and showing an opinion even though it may hurt.

i am showing an example,i didn't mean to insult and you can delete it if you would like.

None taken,you are at liberty to say what you wish as long as it doesn't incite violence,as i said,it may hurt and may make you angry,you can either ignore it or speak out against it,its the same for all and IMO quite right.

 

[A Troubled Man]

Well I didn't sign it or participate in it, so I have no control over what others did, nor do you. That's just the way the world goes sometimes. You can start another movement if you want to, with petitions and the like. That's your right.

I still oppose you clumping us all into one group, because as you can see, Muslims are just like every other group, with all sorts of differing opinions.

And yet, that resolution protects Muslims as a group from anyone else starting movements, like 'Draw Muhammad Day' for example. It solidifies the freedom of rights Muslims can have while removing the rights of others.

That is why I see your opinions on the matter as merely lip service.

 

[Riverwolf]

It solidifies the freedom of rights Muslims can have

Wait a moment, what rights are you referring to here?