Audie
Veteran Member
Yeah, whatever.
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Economists admit that tax cuts for the rich fail to trickle down
- Thread starter Stevicus
- Start date
Yeah, whatever.
Daemon Sophic
Avatar in flux
Like @Altfish ’s response about beer and cigarettes, I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are joking here.
Of course you are not a deluded idiot who believes all of the stereotypes about the poor.
Because, obviously, that would denote you as a complete moron.
And we all know that you’re not. Agreed. So in the US, a starting point of raising it to $15 per hour is just that....a starting point.
While the politician millionaires with their housing, travel, and healthcare already paid for by the people (who don’t get a penny for their own) take the next few months deciding just how high the minimum wage should be raised to, the working class and poor can stop panicking and dying, and instead work, spend a tiny (unsustainable) amount, while being able to look forward to a basic living wage.
The $15 (translating into ~30k/year) is just enough to pay cheap rent, buy food, get medical care (remember in the neocon world of the US, none of these things are taken care of for you by the gov’t), and pay for gas so that you can drive back and forth to work and the store.
Assigning standards of living from the 1960’s, and accounting for inflation of most goods, determines that a minimum living wage is actually closer to $22/hour (a.k.a. >40k/year).
Therefore, after the emergency deployment of $15/hour is implemented, then the haggling can begin.
And of course none of this even begins to address the horrific state of our infrastructure (schools, roads, medical services, gov’t funding for education, mail service, power generation, trains, and ports to name a few....), that were all gutted by Reagan’s tax cuts on the rich, stabbed while down by Bush Jr’s tax cuts for the rich, and drowned in the bathtub by Trump’s tax cuts for the rich.
Every last bit of which will be needed in order to hope to revive our industrial and services work in all areas across the nation. Failure in these needed things is to consign the US to failure.
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How true. The funny thing is, most people actually do understand on an instinctive level. They may not be able to intellectualize it or write an academic-level report on it, although they do clearly understand that they're being screwed.
Altfish
Veteran Member
I only said raise it as opposed to reduce the tax on the rich.
Altfish
Veteran Member
Like @Altfish ’s response about beer and cigarettes, I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are joking here.
Of course you are not a deluded idiot who believes all of the stereotypes about the poor.
Because, obviously, that would denote you as a complete moron.
Indeed, you can recognise sarcasm at 20-yards.
It's interesting that this was rarely (if at all) discussed in the media regarding the times, events, and places you're referring to. With Iran, it was all about the overthrow of the Shah and the US embassy takeover and hostage crisis brought about by the Iranian revolutionaries. They burned the US flag and kept saying "death to America," but they didn't utter a peep about reserve currency (or if they did, the US media failed to report it). In Iraq, it was all about WMDs and how much of a tyrant Saddam was, but little to nothing was said about reserve currency.
This illustrates part of the reason why there is mistrust of the mainstream media, and why alternative media and conspiracy theories might be attractive to some people. When a key piece of information like this is not made the most prominent part of the story, then people have good cause to be suspicious of the media.
It's just like how someone took issue with my use of the phrase "Economists admit." The economists and the media should have been screaming this from every rooftop. It should have been headline news every day during the Reagan era, but instead, all we got from them was the Teflon President and "Don't Worry, Be Happy."
That they sit around and wonder why so many people don't trust them is very telling, as it indicates that the media and ruling class have no intention of turning over a new leaf and being honest for a change.
Audie
Veteran Member
Why is that " as opposed to"?
Audie
Veteran Member
Like @Altfish ’s response about beer and cigarettes, I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are joking here.
Of course you are not a deluded idiot who believes all of the stereotypes about the poor.
Because, obviously, that would denote you as a complete moron.
Agreed. So in the US, a starting point of raising it to $15 per hour is just that....a starting point.
While the politician millionaires with their housing, travel, and healthcare already paid for by the people (who don’t get a penny for their own) take the next few months deciding just how high the minimum wage should be raised to, the working class and poor can stop panicking and dying, and instead work, spend a tiny (unsustainable) amount, while being able to look forward to a basic living wage.
The $15 (translating into ~30k/year) is just enough to pay cheap rent, buy food, get medical care (remember in the neocon world of the US, none of these things are taken care of for you by the gov’t), and pay for gas so that you can drive back and forth to work and the store.
Assigning standards of living from the 1960’s, and accounting for inflation of most goods, determines that a minimum living wage is actually closer to $22/hour (a.k.a. >40k/year).
Therefore, after the emergency deployment of $15/hour is implemented, then the haggling can begin.
And of course none of this even begins to address the horrific state of our infrastructure (schools, roads, medical services, gov’t funding for education, mail service, power generation, trains, and ports to name a few....), that were all gutted by Reagan’s tax cuts on the rich, stabbed while down by Bush Jr’s tax cuts for the rich, and drowned in the bathtub by Trump’s tax cuts for the rich.
Every last bit of which will be needed in order to hope to revive our industrial and services work in all areas across the nation. Failure in these needed things is to consign the US to failure.
I don't much care for stereotyping
of either " the rich" ( who are constantly
denounced by one of our posters for
their. " greed"), or the poor who are so
varied in their nature.
Considering the vast scope of needed
expenditure, the ballooning debt and
political division in the USA, working
things out is a prob., for sure.
Better make that 15 per hour a
guarantee as a lot of jobs may
vanish as too expensive.
I've had to fire people who were
not worth what they cost.
ElishaElijah
Return
The government has failed, God hasn’t, I’m glad I trust Him. Everyone trusting government is in for a big let down.
Peter Griffin
Deist
What is your opinion based on? I'm a business owner and only hire someone when absolutely necessary!! It doesn't mean I dislike employees, but you hire when you HAVE too? How is that dark, sad or unrealistic?
Audie
Veteran Member
You left out a lot ofvwhst you said.
As noted elsewhere, I've fired people who
did not measure up, were not worth what they cost.
Sure never hired someone for charity,
whether its hair stylist for an hour or
full time office worker, they have to deliver.
You seemed to say this is a matter of cold
indifference to an employer, which to me
it certainly is not.
Peter Griffin
Deist
Would you say that they are poor because of stupidity and laziness or because of lack of privilege and luck?
Peter Griffin
Deist
I believe business and monetary gain is cold and indifferent!!
Audie
Veteran Member
there are many reasons besides those
Audie
Veteran Member
Money has no feelings. People do
Peter Griffin
Deist
Reasons for being poor or being rich?
Audie
Veteran Member
There are a lot of routes to either of those.
A lot of it is in the story people tell themselves.
But thats obvious.
Heyo
Veteran Member
Do you know why marijuana isn't going to be legalized federally (or in any other country)? All the stated reasons have been debunked but the real reason isn't even known to most people. There is the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs - Wikipedia. An international treaty nobody wants to touch with a ten foot pole.
In politics nothing is monocausal but there are often causes that aren't stated.
Daemon Sophic
Avatar in flux
Of course. So have I.
Luckily what research that does exist, shows that overall, unemployment rates do NOT rise with the minumum wage.
The foundations of capitalism (e.g. Supply and Demand) immediately reveal the whole trickle-down and “supply-side” economic bubble-makers for what they really are....bubble-makers.
They were always short-term fixes, that were never meant to hold water for more than a few months, before they should have returned to normal market levels, with the return to less income disparity.
The US however, utterly ignored the economists’ of the the last 4 decades, as they warned (even along with Ronald Reagan’s own warnings), that tax cuts for the rich must be halted in order for the economy and the nation’s infrastructure to heal. “Conservative”
policy unfortunately, has commanded the US economy for the last 50 years, which has directly and undeniably dug the grave that we now find ourselves in.The political division that exists here is significant indeed, but it is not between two responsible groups weighing possible solutions. Instead, it is between realists (usually termed “liberals” in the press) and naive and deluded children (formerly known as “conservatives”, although now they are the extreme opposite of that nomenclature) living in their own self-inflicted (economic and fact-free) bubble.
Time for the children to wake up and take a bath. Return taxes to 1960-1970 norms, and lift the working class back onto their feet with real wages, and at least a decade of gov’t-paid-for, on-the-job training for 21st century careers.
When they are working and earning where they should be, the US economy can spend a decade or two returning to a leadership position in the world.
Daemon Sophic
Avatar in flux
Actually, rising from poverty is extremely difficult, regardless of how desirous and hard-working an individual is. Much depends upon opportunities that simply don’t exist for a child/yound adult raised in the many difficulties prevalent in the niches of poverty.
Most poor people truly, truly want and are willing to work. Hard. For a better life.
That is obvious.