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Bennett, this is exactly how the talk radio hosts start up. They say they are only mad because it's illegal and then continue with "numbers", costs, crime, etc. Generalizations like this (even if true) is what gets many in trouble with the African American community. Has American not learned it's lesson?Bennettresearch said:
I think you got me all wrong Ardent Listener. I don't disagree at all. It's the SOLUTION that I disagree with. They are here now, and not educating them is hardly a solution.Ardent Listener said:As a citizen Victor, don't you believe that the United States goverment has the right to decide who enters this country or not? I think what upsets many Americans is that our laws are being broken and little or nothing is being done about it. Many Americans feel that our security, as a nation, is being threaten when anyone, Mexican or not, is able to cross the U.S./Mexican boarder illegally. Many of us also feel that our concerns are not being addressed by our leaders.
Don't get me wrong Victor, I know that most illegal immigrants are crossing the boarder only seeking a better life for themselves and are more than willing to work hard in order to do so. It is not them that I'm worrying about. It is those (Mexican or not) who come here only to do harm to this nation that is the problem. I also believe that something needs to be done with the class system in Mexico that forces the good people of Mexico out like that. The Mexican people are some of the most repressed people on earth. The wealthy class in Mexico has made them into virtual slaves there for many years, and the wealthy class in the U.S. is just about treating them as bad here now. It is high time for a big change down there in Mexico. Mexico can and should be a much better place for Mexicans to live. But I digress.
As per race, I'm sure that is a big factor with some people here. I hope neither you or anyone else takes this wrong, but I can't tell the difference between Mexicans and Puerto Ricians. Puerto Ricians are U.S. citizens and I have no problem with them moving to the United States. I feel that hespanic people, in general, assimulate well into this country. And if the majority language hapens to be Spanish some day, then so be it. Even I can figure out some of the words when I hear or read Spanish.But by God, it better still be the United States of America.
Back to topic, if there are children of any race or status who need medical care, food, shelter, or education then the answer to me is obvious. But let's fix this problem here and help Mexicans fix it in Mexico too!
A problem still needs to be dealt with no matter where in the world it occurs so I don't really see why it matters whether it is California or Mexico who has to provide for these people. Either place will suffer strain from attempting to do so and so I feel no more or less sympathy towards California than I do towards Mexico.Bennettresearch said:
Am I missing something Victor? Why do you feel we are in disagreement over the issue of educating illegal immigrants?Victor said:
No need to apoligize dear friend, I'm glad we are on the same page now.Victor said:
Whenever a problem like this occurs, money is inevitably going to be spent. Those approaches that don't solve the problem but merely delay it or move it to another area will eventually, even if it seems like a cheap quick fix, spend the most money.
Beyond reducing the likelihood that they will turn to crime and increasing the chance they will contribute more to the economy via a better job, educating illegal immigrants does nothing to help you. I'd like to think that something could be moral and beneficial without actually benefitting ones own country, however. Some would argue that if it does not meet such criteria, then what is the point but I would respectfully disagree.
Why is it our right to prevent them from doing so? Is it morally permissable to force them to stay in an environment where they would be less well off than we are?
Yes this probably will happen. I simply view this as preferable as opposed to these children recieving no education. If America, or whichever, country is unable to afford it, then that is the problem that they need to attempt to solve and not through favouring one people over another based on such an insignificant factor as the place on the planet upon which they were born.
Yes this is very true Michel. I feel that the changes needed for this sort of development are a long way off. 200 years at a minimum and only if humanity continues along its current social progression. I feel that trying to convince people at such an early stage would be like going back to the middle ages and trying to convince the Pope that homosexuality was okay. Voicing the idea might allow others to latch on and keep the seeds of development there but people simply are not ready.Morally, a perfect post fluffy; in practice, an ethic which is of enormous cost to the tax payer. You need to convince him first.
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Well, it's your world now; my generation hasn't achieved that much - it's all yours to put right.:biglaugh:Fluffy said:Yes this is very true Michel. I feel that the changes needed for this sort of development are a long way off. 200 years at a minimum and only if humanity continues along its current social progression. I feel that trying to convince people at such an early stage would be like going back to the middle ages and trying to convince the Pope that homosexuality was okay. Voicing the idea might allow others to latch on and keep the seeds of development there but people simply are not ready.
Either that or I'll be voting on the first world PM when I'm 60.... who knows *starts dreaming*
Keep up the good work..Fluffy said:Its been leaps and bounds since democracy hit the scene properly. Just think how far we have come in the last 100 years with regards to gender equality, racism, territorialism, religious freedom, sexual freedom. It is an incredibly exciting time to be alive