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Either Muhammad is a true or false prophet...no in between!

Do you think he is God's Prophet?

  • Yes

    Votes: 7 31.8%
  • No

    Votes: 15 68.2%

  • Total voters
    22

Spiderman

Veteran Member
My question for you is not, was Muhammed a Prophet selected by God to preach the true faith? I certainly do not know the answer to that and I doubt you do either.

My question is, what do you think and maybe some of your basis for thinking that? Since there was recently a thread where many of us discussed the signs of a sociopath, I see nothing wrong with pointing out Religious leaders that have every single symptom of a sociopath on a forum where the topic is Religion, or elsewhere.

So, if Islam is the truth, than Muhammad was the most influential servant of God and Muhammad had no problem making that very clear, which means he was either the most important person in history or he was a narcissist.

Was it Jesus that brought Shariah law or commanded people to face the east on their face praying five times a day, did Jesus stress the importance of not eating, drinking, or smoking till sun down on Ramadan, did He require that every one of his followers must make pilgramege to the Holy city of mecca, Did He give us the True and inerrant word of God, Did He institute Islamic dress code, Did Jesus institute any of the five pillars of ISlam? The answer is No, No, No!

So the true Religion and the pillars of that Religion that it's followers are required to obey was given to the world not by Jesus Christ or anyone other than Muhammad, who even non muslims cannot deny being almost tied with Jesus Christ as the most influential teacher in the world and more Children are named after him than any other name, indicating even more of his being the most important and praiseworthy creature to walk the planet.

However, sociopaths also receive much praise as a general rule and are highly influential. They are also very known to found religions of their own. They are known to be very charming, very poetic, have "magnetic personalities", known for preaching and telling stories that leave people in a hypnotic trance, and known for having a following, as would be important qualities for any founder of a Religion to have.

Sociopaths are also known for being sexually deviant and if Muhammad lived in present day America, every community that he moved to would be notified that he is a registered sexual offender.

Sociopaths are also prone to violence and Muhammed was undeniably a violent man who started Religious wars that never end and go on to this very day.

He is responsible for a system of government that is extreme, intolerant, harsh, full of excessive punishments and policies like what you would see in a country like north Korea or some other military Dictatorship.

Sharia law has enslaved countless millions of people in our present day world and as a result there are countries where drinkers and gamblers are whipped, caned 80 strokes, imprisoned, and sometimes executed all in the name of God by Sharia court.

Read Bukhari punishments and you will find that Muhammad ordered such things to be done to those guilty sinners who were brought to him. Of course, it was also Muhammad that ordered the cutting off of hands for theft and the killing of those who had sex outside of marriage.

It doesn't take a brilliant person to figure that if Muhammad could have sharia law in America and worldwide, he would be delighted, and were that so, the majority of us at this website who are not muslims or who like to drink or have sexual partners we aren't married to, we would live each day in danger of being legally executed.

The point im making is how influential Muhammad is to this very day, and although we can attribute his lifestyle, laws, violent conquest, and the example that he left that it is morally permissible to have sex with children, as being the culture of that time, his policies and teachings and the example he left drag people back to that time and force people to live under those harsh conditions.

So, either Muhammad was a prophet of God and a speaker of truth or he was a false prophet, a narcissist, and a madman. It is a black and white answer isn't? He was either right or wrong.

If you are a follower of Christ, he warned many times that false prophets would lead the majority of the world astray and Muhammad has all the charictaristics of a false prophet.

If you are not a Theist, you wouldn't call him a false prophet, but he still has virtually every symptom that I know of that is used to diagnose a narcissist and sociopath.

Also, if Muhammad is indeed a sociopath and/or false prophet, is it wrong to point out this along with other unhealthy errors he taught, even when to do so will greatly offend those who follow him?
 
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Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
...

You cannot make a psychological judgement, let alone psychological profile, based only on the writings of a person, especially not one who lived a thousand-plus years ago.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
yes but that does not change the fact that his writings and his actions show all of the symptoms of a sociopath to the most dangerous degree.

Not that he is more sick or immoral then the next criminal, but more dangerous because of his power and influence.

Yes, if we read about somebody who did what charles manson, jeff dahmer,or pol pot did, even if they did it 1500 years ago, it isn't too difficult to still call a spade a spade.
 

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
yes but that does not change the fact that his writings and his actions show all of the symptoms of a sociopath to the most dangerous degree.

Not that he is more sick or immoral then the next criminal, but more dangerous because of his power and influence.

Yes, if we read about somebody who did what charles manson, jeff dahmer,or pol pot did, even if they did it 1500 years ago, it isn't too difficult to still call a spade a spade.
If I were take just everything you've written down I could make an argument you're a sociopath as well. But there is more to you than what you've written down. There is more to Mohammed than what others wrote down for him.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
William Shakespeare wrote a hateful and highly offensive play that glorifies, justifies, and makes light of, abuse of women.

Was he misogynistic? And whether so or not, are the rest of his works devalued from this?
 

jeager106

Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member
I don't think sociopath is the right word for zealous religious leaders.
Definition of sociopath:
a person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience.

Religious leaders seem to possess extreme morality and seem to have a "god" driven conscious.
Exceptions being Jim Jones and David Koresh among others.
Jesus said "you'll know them by their fruits."
(Matthew 7:16)
Yes. ^^^^^
...

You cannot make a psychological judgement, let alone psychological profile, based only on the writings of a person, especially not one who lived a thousand-plus years ago.

Well yes it is done by professionals that can diagnose via someones written words.
The F.B.I. is notable in being able to establish a personality profile from someone's writing.
This was done extensively by studying Hitlers writing. He was flaming nuts.
So was Stalin who mudered more Russians than killed in all of WWII.
I'm sure Mohammeds writing has been diagnosed by someone somewhere someplace.
Trouble is Mohammed didn't write anything. He was reported to be illiterate.
He dictated to scribes who wrote down what he said. Did they write it down with accuracy?
Don't know.
 

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
Well yes it is done by professionals that can diagnose via someones written words.
The F.B.I. is notable in being able to establish a personality profile from someone's writing.
This was done extensively by studying Hitlers writing. He was flaming nuts.
So was Stalin who mudered more Russians than killed in all of WWII.
I'm sure Mohammeds writing has been diagnosed by someone somewhere someplace.
Trouble is Mohammed didn't write anything. He was reported to be illiterate.
He dictated to scribes who wrote down what he said. Did they write it down with accuracy?
Don't know.
Let me elaborate then.

The writings we have that are attributed as sayings by Mohammed are not sufficient to make a profile. Hitler & Stalin both have reams and reams and reams of written material and recordings. There is an over-abundance of knowledge for both of them. Mohammed doesn't have that luxury.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
No, I don't at all agree with the 'Mohammed was a sociopath' theory. I think His teachings were inspired from above to bring a vastly better system to the people of his time and culture who were in a barbaric state.

To us in the modern western world some of it sounds crude and rough but the examples in the OP are taking things out of their proper context.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
You can argue me a sociopath based on my writings on this site? Please do.

I can show you where I have condemned violence, praised the virtues of humility and charity, condemned tyranny and intolerance, and voiced sorrow about the suffering in our world and apologized multiple times for my behaviors that hurt others.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
No, I don't at all agree with the 'Mohammed was a sociopath' theory. I think His teachings were inspired from above to bring a vastly better system to the people of his time and culture who were in a barbaric state.

To us in the modern western world some of it sounds crude and rough but the examples in the OP are taking things out of their proper context.
Out of context?

He approved of and practiced polygamy and by today's legal standards in our country would be a registered sex offender, used military force to spread and enforceme his Religion, instituted laws that called for the atrocities I mentioned , true or false?

I do not have any business making a diagnosis, but someone left a link of all of the main symptoms of a sociopath, and couldn't help but notice that he had every one of them.

Sure, he didn't write anything but it isn't very difficult to find out what he taught and what he did.
 
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George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
Out of context?

He approved of and practiced polygamy and by today's legal standards in our country would be a registered sex offender, used military force to spread and enforceme his Religion, instituted laws that called for the atrocities I mentioned , true or false?
Do you notice what you say here actually supports my point that you are attacking Mohammed out of context (notice the part I highlighted). You are using a modern western context to judge someone who lived 1,500 years ago in a barbaric world. For example, being an orphan unmarried female youth was a vastly more precarious situation then than now; so we need to judge situations in their context.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Is it wrong to judge what our society would consider wicked and immoral behavior as being wicked and immoral?

A sociopath lacks empathy. Does it sounds very much to you like somebody who has a lot of empathy would order the hands of thieves to be cut off, order people that drink and gamble to be whipped and beaten with rods, and ordered adulterers to be stoned to death, and use military force to conquer other nations and enforce his Idea of God's law?


Did or did he not do all of the things above, and is that to you the behavior of somebody that has a healthy amount of empathy for other human beings?

Also, it is true that the depraved culture of the time influenced him. But the countries and Governments that follow his laws and policies now a days contain the same level of depravity , cruelty, and intolerance that we read about in his time.

So his teachings and policies influence our modern world very much and that really concerns me.
 

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
You can argue me a sociopath based on my writings on this site? Please do.

I can show you where I have condemned violence, praised the virtues of humility and charity, condemned tyranny and intolerance, and voiced sorrow about the suffering in our world and apologized multiple times for my behaviors that hurt others.
I didn't say this site, I said ever written.
 

Midnight Rain

Well-Known Member
My question for you is not, was Muhammed a Prophet selected by God to preach the true faith? I certainly do not know the answer to that and I doubt you do either.

My question is, what do you think and maybe some of your basis for thinking that? Since there was recently a thread where many of us discussed the signs of a sociopath, I see nothing wrong with pointing out Religious leaders that have every single symptom of a sociopath on a forum where the topic is Religion, or elsewhere.

So, if Islam is the truth, than Muhammad was the most influential servant of God and Muhammad had no problem making that very clear, which means he was either the most important person in history or he was a narcissist.

Was it Jesus that brought Shariah law or commanded people to face the east on their face praying five times a day, did Jesus stress the importance of not eating, drinking, or smoking till sun down on Ramadan, did He require that every one of his followers must make pilgramege to the Holy city of mecca, Did He give us the True and inerrant word of God, Did He institute Islamic dress code, Did Jesus institute any of the five pillars of ISlam? The answer is No, No, No!

So the true Religion and the pillars of that Religion that it's followers are required to obey was given to the world not by Jesus Christ or anyone other than Muhammad, who even non muslims cannot deny being almost tied with Jesus Christ as the most influential teacher in the world and more Children are named after him than any other name, indicating even more of his being the most important and praiseworthy creature to walk the planet.

However, sociopaths also receive much praise as a general rule and are highly influential. They are also very known to found religions of their own. They are known to be very charming, very poetic, have "magnetic personalities", known for preaching and telling stories that leave people in a hypnotic trance, and known for having a following, as would be important qualities for any founder of a Religion to have.

Sociopaths are also known for being sexually deviant and if Muhammad lived in present day America, every community that he moved to would be notified that he is a registered sexual offender.

Sociopaths are also prone to violence and Muhammed was undeniably a violent man who started Religious wars that never end and go on to this very day.

He is responsible for a system of government that is extreme, intolerant, harsh, full of excessive punishments and policies like what you would see in a country like north Korea or some other military Dictatorship.

Sharia law has enslaved countless millions of people in our present day world and as a result there are countries where drinkers and gamblers are whipped, caned 80 strokes, imprisoned, and sometimes executed all in the name of God by Sharia court.

Read Bukhari punishments and you will find that Muhammad ordered such things to be done to those guilty sinners who were brought to him. Of course, it was also Muhammad that ordered the cutting off of hands for theft and the killing of those who had sex outside of marriage.

It doesn't take a brilliant person to figure that if Muhammad could have sharia law in America and worldwide, he would be delighted, and were that so, the majority of us at this website who are not muslims or who like to drink or have sexual partners we aren't married to, we would live each day in danger of being legally executed.

The point im making is how influential Muhammad is to this very day, and although we can attribute his lifestyle, laws, violent conquest, and the example that he left that it is morally permissible to have sex with children, as being the culture of that time, his policies and teachings and the example he left drag people back to that time and force people to live under those harsh conditions.

So, either Muhammad was a prophet of God and a speaker of truth or he was a false prophet, a narcissist, and a madman. It is a black and white answer isn't? He was either right or wrong.

If you are a follower of Christ, he warned many times that false prophets would lead the majority of the world astray and Muhammad has all the charictaristics of a false prophet.

If you are not a Theist, you wouldn't call him a false prophet, but he still has virtually every symptom that I know of that is used to diagnose a narcissist and sociopath.

Also, if Muhammad is indeed a sociopath and/or false prophet, is it wrong to point out this along with other unhealthy errors he taught, even when to do so will greatly offend those who follow him?
The problem with many religions, especially ones that claim absolute truth, require an all or nothing bet on belief. If you are a Christian there is no way you can only believe some of it and not the rest or at least of the fundamental portions. One cannot doubt the divinity of Jesus.

So either Muhammad was the true prophet or he wasn't. You are right to say there is no in between.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Galatians 5:22-23 says, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control."
0.jpg


Also, Nietzche,
If you read everything I had ever written you could argue that Im a sociopath especially if you read what I had written at the age of 16, much of it parroting the music I listened to, the stuff I saw on TV, and the people I was raised with.

I do not consider myself a good person and don't like myself.

However, you would find many writings as an adult of me talking about the importance of treating others as you want to be treated, forgiving people, and much that extols the virtues of giving people the benefit of the doubt, consoling those who are suffering, being patient with the shortcomings of others, humility, self-control, and charity.

However, you would also find me apologizing repeatedly for the things that I had done. You would have heard over a hundred confessions to priests and others about what I had done and that it is wrong.

If you could read my heart you would see that I am on a daily basis grieved, regretful, and sometimes even beat myself up over the ways others were hurt by my transgressions of the golden rule.

If you got a hold of my medical records you would see Doctors and therapists writing the same thing.

And you would also know that I examine my behavior and the things I say and am very critical of it. All would be strong indications of someone with a strong and healthy sense of empathy for others.

Now, is there ONE instance where Muhammad contemporaries write of him admitting that he was wrong or sorry for what he had done? When he saw people getting whipped, beaten with rods, and hands being severed, and people getting stoned to death by his orders, and heaps of corpses after a battle that he was responsible for, does he apologize for it ever? You and I do not know but I assume his apology would have been public and written down.

em·pa·thy
ˈempəTHē/
noun



    • the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.
com·pas·sion
kəmˈpaSHən/
noun



If you are reading this, I'd appreciate if you told me if you think Muhammad's behavior reflects a compassionate and empathetic person?
 
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jeager106

Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member
Let me elaborate then.

The writings we have that are attributed as sayings by Mohammed are not sufficient to make a profile. Hitler & Stalin both have reams and reams and reams of written material and recordings. There is an over-abundance of knowledge for both of them. Mohammed doesn't have that luxury.

You are totally correct. There isn't enough writing if any to analyze.
Muhammad could well have been a psychopath as his extremist followers seem to be.
I have less and less tolerance for islamics. A hateful breed.
 
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