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Either Muhammad is a true or false prophet...no in between!

Do you think he is God's Prophet?

  • Yes

    Votes: 7 31.8%
  • No

    Votes: 15 68.2%

  • Total voters
    22

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
The fruits improved,lol
Today they're more religious than centuries ago.
Don't you see how silly is your argument ?
You are in every dialogue says of the Crusades and the wars of Christians
1. the wars waged by States
No (based)on the Gospel(
2. (a) the text of the Bible (obviously encourages fighting or war
3. the Qur'an and Muhammad, Muslims use the Koran to justify their wars
4. even her booty a separate chapter in the Qur'an
5. Yes of the human right to fight in self-defence
6. the crusades-the reason-.
7. orders one of the Fatimid Caliphs to demolish Jerusalem Christian churches
8. Western intervention to protect the Christian holy places
9. from the historical errors
10 Eastern Christians helped Muslims against Christians Europeans
11. but the result-is
12-after a year of events
13. the killing and expulsion of Eastern Christians in his country
14. the lessons of history are
15. Islam ideology colonial intellectual and settlement
16. Islam is not spiritually
17. Islam ideology infernal
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
And I wonder if the people that are beaten, injured, and killed for the cartoon were people that were responsible for the cartoon.

Also, I feel guilt for the hurt that my words may be causing some of the muslims here who are good people. I was once very drawn to Islam. When I read the Koran it had the arabic next to the English and the Arabic language appears to be beautiful to me.

Some of the verses in the koran brought light, peace, and mild intoxication to my mind and heart and brought me to prostrate myself and pray.

And im attracted to Islamic architecture and Arabic styles of clothing. I enjoyed praying at a mosque in New York and befriending Muslims. I enjoyed worshiping with them and the songs that the Imam would sing in Arabic.

I had a child approach me and speak compassionately that I look like something is troubling me and that he would like to see me have peace. Get this, one of the muslims on one occasion smelled alcohol on my breath and he told me it is forbidden. Another muslim there put his arm around me and smiled and said it's okay. He said to ask the Imam if I could return and the answer was yes. Another random stranger offered to give me a ride home. It was great!

I enjoyed gathering with the Muslims at the mosque more than a Catholic Mass or Christian Bible study. It was another culture that interested me. If you gave me an Islamic prayer rug and prayer beads for Christmas I'd be very grateful and use them.

I even wore a muslim kufi cap to mass on more than one occasion. I like those too. :)

So, I feel hurt that some of the Muslims that I offend at this website resemble my good Muslim friends in New York. I don't get any pleasure out of offending Muslims but I have seen the stoning, shooting, maiming, and hanging of beautiful young innocent women and children in those countries a long with many other things that traumatized me and I feel the need to speak out about what I think is a threat to our modern world and ruining countless lives.

I can't blame Islam or the Koran in it of itself for this, but the Koran and Islamic law leads to these atrocities and that bothers me ALOT!
The Qur'ansections
1. section 1.
Called(AlQuran)
U-versewritten byMuhammad inMecca
2. the Quran Medina
O.versesbyMuhammadin Medina
3. more verses Mecca copied and cancelled
4. copies of the Qur'an
5. copy directory and to prove it (and any copy or we forget her we come to good ones or the like)
6. copy
And cancellations
7. come any better ones
8. the Quran Medina
It is a problemof humanity
19. order of the Qur'an
10. order of Koranic fence be Sura to the longer wall
11. why the Muslims the Qur'an was not written according to date going down each eh??
The original Quran written in capital letters no score
Is called rasterization
12. the Quran today is fixed in the process is to add dot
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
You are in every dialogue says of the Crusades and the wars of Christians
1. the wars waged by States
No (based)on the Gospel(
2. (a) the text of the Bible (obviously encourages fighting or war
3. the Qur'an and Muhammad, Muslims use the Koran to justify their wars
4. even her booty a separate chapter in the Qur'an
5. Yes of the human right to fight in self-defence
6. the crusades-the reason-.
7. orders one of the Fatimid Caliphs to demolish Jerusalem Christian churches
8. Western intervention to protect the Christian holy places
9. from the historical errors
10 Eastern Christians helped Muslims against Christians Europeans
11. but the result-is
12-after a year of events
13. the killing and expulsion of Eastern Christians in his country
14. the lessons of history are
15. Islam ideology colonial intellectual and settlement
16. Islam is not spiritually
17. Islam ideology infernal

Exactly as stupid as the OP is.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Sure, he didn't write anything but it isn't very difficult to find out what he taught and what he did.
Muslim tradition notwithstanding, nobody knows a thing about Muhammad that wasn't recorded by the people who were recording a legend.

Christians and Jews are in the same boat. It is the single biggest problem with "Scripture". It is all based on humans writing down something
someone told them that someone said that God said.

Tom
 

thinking7

New Member
My question for you is not, was Muhammed a Prophet selected by God to preach the true faith? I certainly do not know the answer to that and I doubt you do either.

My question is, what do you think and maybe some of your basis for thinking that? Since there was recently a thread where many of us discussed the signs of a sociopath, I see nothing wrong with pointing out Religious leaders that have every single symptom of a sociopath on a forum where the topic is Religion, or elsewhere.

So, if Islam is the truth, than Muhammad was the most influential servant of God and Muhammad had no problem making that very clear, which means he was either the most important person in history or he was a narcissist.

Was it Jesus that brought Shariah law or commanded people to face the east on their face praying five times a day, did Jesus stress the importance of not eating, drinking, or smoking till sun down on Ramadan, did He require that every one of his followers must make pilgramege to the Holy city of mecca, Did He give us the True and inerrant word of God, Did He institute Islamic dress code, Did Jesus institute any of the five pillars of ISlam? The answer is No, No, No!

So the true Religion and the pillars of that Religion that it's followers are required to obey was given to the world not by Jesus Christ or anyone other than Muhammad, who even non muslims cannot deny being almost tied with Jesus Christ as the most influential teacher in the world and more Children are named after him than any other name, indicating even more of his being the most important and praiseworthy creature to walk the planet.

However, sociopaths also receive much praise as a general rule and are highly influential. They are also very known to found religions of their own. They are known to be very charming, very poetic, have "magnetic personalities", known for preaching and telling stories that leave people in a hypnotic trance, and known for having a following, as would be important qualities for any founder of a Religion to have.

Sociopaths are also known for being sexually deviant and if Muhammad lived in present day America, every community that he moved to would be notified that he is a registered sexual offender.

Sociopaths are also prone to violence and Muhammed was undeniably a violent man who started Religious wars that never end and go on to this very day.

He is responsible for a system of government that is extreme, intolerant, harsh, full of excessive punishments and policies like what you would see in a country like north Korea or some other military Dictatorship.

Sharia law has enslaved countless millions of people in our present day world and as a result there are countries where drinkers and gamblers are whipped, caned 80 strokes, imprisoned, and sometimes executed all in the name of God by Sharia court.

Read Bukhari punishments and you will find that Muhammad ordered such things to be done to those guilty sinners who were brought to him. Of course, it was also Muhammad that ordered the cutting off of hands for theft and the killing of those who had sex outside of marriage.

It doesn't take a brilliant person to figure that if Muhammad could have sharia law in America and worldwide, he would be delighted, and were that so, the majority of us at this website who are not muslims or who like to drink or have sexual partners we aren't married to, we would live each day in danger of being legally executed.

The point im making is how influential Muhammad is to this very day, and although we can attribute his lifestyle, laws, violent conquest, and the example that he left that it is morally permissible to have sex with children, as being the culture of that time, his policies and teachings and the example he left drag people back to that time and force people to live under those harsh conditions.

So, either Muhammad was a prophet of God and a speaker of truth or he was a false prophet, a narcissist, and a madman. It is a black and white answer isn't? He was either right or wrong.

If you are a follower of Christ, he warned many times that false prophets would lead the majority of the world astray and Muhammad has all the charictaristics of a false prophet.

If you are not a Theist, you wouldn't call him a false prophet, but he still has virtually every symptom that I know of that is used to diagnose a narcissist and sociopath.

Also, if Muhammad is indeed a sociopath and/or false prophet, is it wrong to point out this along with other unhealthy errors he taught, even when to do so will greatly offend those who follow him?
 

thinking7

New Member
I find it difficult to believe that Muhammad(pbuh) was a madman, purely because the people that were against him wanted to accuse him of being, a soothsayer, a magician and a madman. But they themselves said that they are unable to label him as any of those 3 names because they have lived with him...and he is none of them.
 

DawudTalut

Peace be upon you.
.....
5. Islam believe in lying
.....
7. lying to him in name of Islam called (Tekke)
8. no education encourages human to lie
Does not deserve tobeGod

Peace be on all.

Holy Quran

033-071.png

[33:71] O ye who believe! fear Allah, and say the right word.



004-172a.png


004-172b.png


[4:172] O People of the Book, exceed not the limits in your religion, and say not of Allah anything but the truth. Verily, the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of Allah and a fulfilment of His word which He sent down to Mary, and a mercy from Him. So believe in Allah and His Messengers, and say not ‘They are three.’ Desist, it will be better for you. Verily, Allah is the only One God. Far is it from His Holiness that He should have a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth. And sufficient is Allah as a Guardian.

Refutation of Taqqia @ # 5 @ Replies to Allegations on Islam Ahmadiyya
 

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
I doubt he was saying that. it's interesting though, to find Christians waging Crusades you have to look back centuries ago.

Muslims are declaring or fighting Crusades every single day!
..sigh
Your ignorance of history is showing. The Crusades were a government-sponsored attempt to cleanse the Holy Land of Infidels. Or, in the North, of Pagans & Heathens. Do you know that the Jews in Iberia were pushed out not by the Caliphate, but by the Christian kingdoms enforced by the Franks?
 

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
Muslim tradition notwithstanding, nobody knows a thing about Muhammad that wasn't recorded by the people who were recording a legend.

Christians and Jews are in the same boat. It is the single biggest problem with "Scripture". It is all based on humans writing down something
someone told them that someone said that God said.

Tom
In fairness, I tend to give Mohammed a bit more credit. For one, we're 100% sure he lived. We've got third-party reports of a lot of what he did(the non-miracle stuff). I think it is fair that when viewing the Quran through a secular lens, that most of what was written down was indeed by those who witnessed Mohammed. Now, this does mean the accuracy is not perfect, but it's a better rendition of events than the Torah or Gospels.
 

Moishe3rd

Yehudi
Jesus said "you'll know them by their fruits."

(Matthew 7:16)
Which is the most cogent argument as to whether or not Mohammad was a good guy and - whether or not Jesus was a good guy.
"A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit."
- Mathew 7:18

For all of you who want to argue the "badness" of Mohammad based on the "goodness" of Jesus - based on the above quotes from the gospels... Guess what?

Christianity persecuted and slaughtered millions upon millions of Jews for the last 2,000 years purely based on Christian scripture.
Ergo, based on the above quotations, Jesus was one hell of a false prophet - by the fruition of his life and teachings shall you know whether or not he was a good guy or a bad guy....

That seems to be the argument regarding Mohammad. So, please, explain why it should apply to him and not to Jesus.
 

Moishe3rd

Yehudi
Peace be on you.
This shows the doubt-way you think, why doubting others, there are many non-Muslims you thought much better than you.
For example:
Friday Sermon: The Holy Prophet Muhammad – in the Eyes of non-Muslim Writers | The Muslim Times

At the end of long evolution of religion, Holy Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.) brought the fully evolved version of international magnitude, while Prophets before him brought the same message "Unity of God, pay His rights and pay rights of His creation" but according to details best suited for the area and people they came for.
And, at the end of long evolution of Islam, the takfir musfidun that are today's imams and clerics who speak for Mohammad have devolved Islam into the gutter religion that glorifies brutality and the slaughter of innocents.
You might want to correct that.
Good luck.
 

Deidre

Well-Known Member
Oh, I'm a former Christian and honestly view the whole Bible with a grain of salt. I personally don't believe that any of the Abrahamic faiths hold ultimate "truth." But, as a former Christian, I thought Jesus was the "final prophet."

Religion has become a competition of the egos for followers. Offend "their god" and you offend them.

Should a magnanimous god exist, he doesn't need mere mortals to "defend" him. My opinion.

Which is the most cogent argument as to whether or not Mohammad was a good guy and - whether or not Jesus was a good guy.
"A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit."
- Mathew 7:18

For all of you who want to argue the "badness" of Mohammad based on the "goodness" of Jesus - based on the above quotes from the gospels... Guess what?

Christianity persecuted and slaughtered millions upon millions of Jews for the last 2,000 years purely based on Christian scripture.
Ergo, based on the above quotations, Jesus was one hell of a false prophet - by the fruition of his life and teachings shall you know whether or not he was a good guy or a bad guy....

That seems to be the argument regarding Mohammad. So, please, explain why it should apply to him and not to Jesus.
 

DawudTalut

Peace be upon you.
And, at the end of long evolution of Islam, the takfir musfidun that are today's imams and clerics who speak for Mohammad have devolved Islam into the gutter religion that glorifies brutality and the slaughter of innocents.
You might want to correct that.
Good luck.

Peace be on you.
Your are right.

Here is quotation from this humble's one of own post, which give references that troubles started by those who were supposed to lead faithful to peace....The solution was also foretold:

" 4- Such weak state of Muslim societies was well foretold by Holy Prophet of Islam (peace and blessings of Allah be on him).

Why is there so much discord erupting in many countries? There is, in fact, dissension spread all over the world. Muslims are totally divided among themselves, and their condition has deteriorated and their countries are falling.
....
Holy Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.) warned Muslims about time when
== nothing left of Islam except its name.
== and there will be nothing left of the Holy Qur’an except its words [meaning the Holy Qur’an would not be understood and followed].
== the mosques of that age will apparently be full of people, but will be empty of righteousness.
== their ulema will be the worst creatures under the heaven. Discord will rise from them and will come right back to them. [That is, these ulema will be the source of all evils.]
Ref: (al-Baihaqi as quoted in al-Mishkat Kitab-ul ‘Ilm, chapter 3, p. 38 and Kanzul ‘Ummal, chapter 6, p. 43)

....

In another hadith, the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) said:
== There will be nothing left of knowledge.
== People will make the ignorant their leaders and will seek guidance from them in matters of religion. These leaders will issue fatwas without any knowledge. They will themselves be misguided and will lead others astray. (Mishkat, Kitab ul-‘Ilm)
A Note: Just on January, 6, 2014, when a voting was conducted in a country Pakistan's national assembly to make special military courts for speedy trials of terrorist who, by threats, were evading normal courts, only two groups abstained from voting: guess what, these are two religious parties!

is not same going on in iraq, libya, syria etc?
Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) was so true!


5- The Solution:
[Holy Quran ch62:v3] ‘He it is Who has raised among the Unlettered people a Messenger from among themselves who recites unto them His verses, and purifies them, and teaches them the Book and wisdom, although they had been, before, in manifest misguidance;

[ch62:v4]’And among others from among them, who have not yet joined them. He is the Mighty, the Wise.’


ABOUT THE VERSE (62:4)

The Companion Abu Hurairah (may Allah be pleased with him) said:
One day we were sitting with Holy Prophet when Surah Jumua was revealed. I enquired from the Holy Prophet, “Who are the people to whom the words,
“And among others who have not yet joined them” refer?” Salman, the Persian was sitting among us. Upon my repeated asking him the same question the Holy Prophet put his hand on Salman and said, “If faith were to go up to the Pleiades, a man from these would surely find it.
[Bukhari]

In other sayings, according to Ahmadiyyaunderstanding, this promised reformer is mentioned as Promised Messiah - the Imam Mahdi. [plz read more inAhmadiyya DIR in this forum ]

and Holy Prophet also prophesied about re-emergence Khilafat:
Holy Prophet s.a.w. said [gist]:

a-- Khilafat on the precept of Prophethood after him,

b-- then two eras of kingships with severity would come and

c-- then again khilafat on the precept of Prophethood would be established.

Then he did not say anything.

[Gist Ref: Narrator Companion Huziafa r.a. , Musnad Ahmad, Hadith]


Thus (c) above is obvious Khilafat of Promised Messiah:

The Khilafat is a promise to pious people, (not to people like ISIS)
and
works of Khilafat are
:
[Holy Quran 24:56] Allah has promised to those among you who believe and do good works that He will surely make them Successors in the earth, as He made Successors from among those who were before them; and that He will surely establish for them their religionwhich He has chosen for them; and that He will surely give them in exchange security and peace after their fear: They will worship Me,and they will not associate anything with Me. Then whoso is ungrateful after that, they will be the rebellious.

[24:57] And observe Prayer and give the Zakat and obey the Messenger, that you may be shown mercy.

Result:
The promised by Allah and Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) solution to problems of Muslims and their revival is only and only through getting connected with Promised Messiah Mahdi and his Khilafat, which continues by the grace of Allah the Exalted."

#31 @ help !!! which Quran to buy | Page 2 | ReligiousForums.com

By the grace of God, worldwide Ahmadiyya Muslim Jama'at under Khilafat is struggling for peaceful reforms since 1889 @ alislam.org and mta.tv

Thanks.
 

Moishe3rd

Yehudi
Peace be on you.
Your are right.

Here is quotation from this humble's one of own post, which give references that troubles started by those who were supposed to lead faithful to peace....The solution was also foretold:

" 4- Such weak state of Muslim societies was well foretold by Holy Prophet of Islam (peace and blessings of Allah be on him).

Why is there so much discord erupting in many countries? There is, in fact, dissension spread all over the world. Muslims are totally divided among themselves, and their condition has deteriorated and their countries are falling.
....
Holy Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.) warned Muslims about time when
== nothing left of Islam except its name.
== and there will be nothing left of the Holy Qur’an except its words [meaning the Holy Qur’an would not be understood and followed].
== the mosques of that age will apparently be full of people, but will be empty of righteousness.
== their ulema will be the worst creatures under the heaven. Discord will rise from them and will come right back to them. [That is, these ulema will be the source of all evils.]
Ref: (al-Baihaqi as quoted in al-Mishkat Kitab-ul ‘Ilm, chapter 3, p. 38 and Kanzul ‘Ummal, chapter 6, p. 43)

....

In another hadith, the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) said:
== There will be nothing left of knowledge.
== People will make the ignorant their leaders and will seek guidance from them in matters of religion. These leaders will issue fatwas without any knowledge. They will themselves be misguided and will lead others astray. (Mishkat, Kitab ul-‘Ilm)
A Note: Just on January, 6, 2014, when a voting was conducted in a country Pakistan's national assembly to make special military courts for speedy trials of terrorist who, by threats, were evading normal courts, only two groups abstained from voting: guess what, these are two religious parties!

is not same going on in iraq, libya, syria etc?
Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) was so true!


5- The Solution:
[Holy Quran ch62:v3] ‘He it is Who has raised among the Unlettered people a Messenger from among themselves who recites unto them His verses, and purifies them, and teaches them the Book and wisdom, although they had been, before, in manifest misguidance;

[ch62:v4]’And among others from among them, who have not yet joined them. He is the Mighty, the Wise.’


ABOUT THE VERSE (62:4)

The Companion Abu Hurairah (may Allah be pleased with him) said:
One day we were sitting with Holy Prophet when Surah Jumua was revealed. I enquired from the Holy Prophet, “Who are the people to whom the words,
“And among others who have not yet joined them” refer?” Salman, the Persian was sitting among us. Upon my repeated asking him the same question the Holy Prophet put his hand on Salman and said, “If faith were to go up to the Pleiades, a man from these would surely find it.
[Bukhari]

In other sayings, according to Ahmadiyyaunderstanding, this promised reformer is mentioned as Promised Messiah - the Imam Mahdi. [plz read more inAhmadiyya DIR in this forum ]

and Holy Prophet also prophesied about re-emergence Khilafat:
Holy Prophet s.a.w. said [gist]:

a-- Khilafat on the precept of Prophethood after him,

b-- then two eras of kingships with severity would come and

c-- then again khilafat on the precept of Prophethood would be established.

Then he did not say anything.

[Gist Ref: Narrator Companion Huziafa r.a. , Musnad Ahmad, Hadith]


Thus (c) above is obvious Khilafat of Promised Messiah:

The Khilafat is a promise to pious people, (not to people like ISIS)
and
works of Khilafat are
:
[Holy Quran 24:56] Allah has promised to those among you who believe and do good works that He will surely make them Successors in the earth, as He made Successors from among those who were before them; and that He will surely establish for them their religionwhich He has chosen for them; and that He will surely give them in exchange security and peace after their fear: They will worship Me,and they will not associate anything with Me. Then whoso is ungrateful after that, they will be the rebellious.

[24:57] And observe Prayer and give the Zakat and obey the Messenger, that you may be shown mercy.

Result:
The promised by Allah and Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) solution to problems of Muslims and their revival is only and only through getting connected with Promised Messiah Mahdi and his Khilafat, which continues by the grace of Allah the Exalted."

#31 @ help !!! which Quran to buy | Page 2 | ReligiousForums.com

By the grace of God, worldwide Ahmadiyya Muslim Jama'at under Khilafat is struggling for peaceful reforms since 1889 @ alislam.org and mta.tv

Thanks.
Lovely.
The "Islamic State" is just one of a multitude of NON "pious people."
In order for your sentiments to have any effect, you would have to take action.
The only action that would be effective today would be for those who agree with your sentiments to "take up arms against [this] sea of troubles and, by opposing, end them."
Otherwise, as has been ongoing for the last 100 years, the musfidun will simply kill you and proceed with their hirabah.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
In fairness, I tend to give Mohammed a bit more credit. For one, we're 100% sure he lived. We've got third-party reports of a lot of what he did(the non-miracle stuff). I think it is fair that when viewing the Quran through a secular lens, that most of what was written down was indeed by those who witnessed Mohammed. Now, this does mean the accuracy is not perfect, but it's a better rendition of events than the Torah or Gospels.
I'm afraid I'm gonna have to call you on the first part. My understanding is that there is precious little third-party writing about Muhammad. Those third-party reports hardly constitute a lot. Could you provide any references to what you are suggesting. I, for one, would be most appreciative.
 

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
I'm afraid I'm gonna have to call you on the first part. My understanding is that there is precious little third-party writing about Muhammad. Those third-party reports hardly constitute a lot. Could you provide any references to what you are suggesting. I, for one, would be most appreciative.
Considering Mohammed was the head of state of a rather large kingdom/empire/theocracy(kinda hard to describe his state), who had children, grandchildren and such along with foreign envoys dealing with matters of state, would those suffice?
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Considering Mohammed was the head of state of a rather large kingdom/empire/theocracy(kinda hard to describe his state), who had children, grandchildren and such along with foreign envoys dealing with matters of state, would those suffice?
I suppose, but the Arabian Peninsula was still a backwater part of the "civilized world" in that era. There was not a lot of interaction with the outside world. Likewise, all the children, grandchildren and envoys would have been somewhat fanatical followers painting a pristine image of the man they called their prophet. That is a huge problem when trying to resolve the image of the real Muhammad.
 

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
I suppose, but the Arabian Peninsula was still a backwater part of the "civilized world" in that era. There was not a lot of interaction with the outside world. Likewise, all the children, grandchildren and envoys would have been somewhat fanatical followers painting a pristine image of the man they called their prophet. That is a huge problem when trying to resolve the image of the real Muhammad.
I think I may have misunderstood. Were you implying Mohammed never existed or something else? Because I was assuming the former.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
I think I may have misunderstood. Were you implying Mohammed never existed or something else? Because I was assuming the former.
No, not at all. I think there is a very high probability that he was an a historical figure. Getting to the "real goods" about that figure is near on impossible due to the mythology that grew around him, from the get go.
 
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