Elijah

[Redemptionsong]

Yeah, but that is not what Luke 3 says. That is your interpretation, and going by past experience, that is probably not on solid ground. As for Matthew writing in Greek, the "disciples" were told to preach the "kingdom of heaven" to the "lost sheep of Israel" (Mt 10:6-7). In the state of Judea, the common people spoke Aramaic, and therefore you might want to consult the Aramaic/Per****ta bible. Building your house on sand (Mt 7:24-27) is not the best route to take. You need two witnesses to confirm any matter, and you have an off shute of one, based on your supposedly leaning on traditions of men with Greek ties, memorialized in a bible written to glorify an English king, written in the 17th Century. I don't know, it sounds kind of iffy. Your version does not mention this "Joseph" as being the father-in-law of the "Joseph", nor did it mention Mary. You are simply scrambling on thin ice. I assume that most of your notions are also based on similar ill-conceived premises based on apparently secret gnostic information. Not to say that a blood line did not run through Mary, as stated by your twisted take from some unknown author with ties to the false prophet Paul, but you have not proven your case.

Pe****ta bible Luke 3:23 But Yeshua was about thirty years old, and he was considered the son of Yoseph, son of Heli,

Luke 3 is open ended, and the translators added their interpretation. Take away the translators interpretation 'son of' in Luke 3:23, and write 'son in law of' instead! Then you have a paternal line through Mary's father, Heli.

It's quite clear from Matthew's Gospel that Joseph's father was Jacob, not Heli.

 

[101G]

The case you are making is not at all clear.

Oh yes, it is. it's just you not willing to accept the TRUTH.

Either Jesus had a human blood line, or he is not of any human extraction.

where is Adam bloodline? who did he descend from..... biologically? listen and Learn, Isaiah 53:2 "For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him."
understand, Mary womb was dry Ground, neither sperm nor human egg was used. notice, Root here is the beginning. he the Lord Jesus in Flesh is the NEW MAN that was to come. that's why we all will get NEW BODIES. not like the one's our parents gave us but the body God, the Lord Jesus will give us. this is why he sprang out.... of Juda, a NEW BEGINNING. supportive scripture. Hebrews 7:14 "For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood." sprang "OUT", not from Juda, but "OUT of Juda, he has no human beginning with anyone's human BLOOD which is contaminated with sin. that's why his sacrifice was perfect...innocence, free from SIN.

if joseph sperm was used, or Mary's eggs was used our Lord would not be the perfect sacrifice.

Know and understand your bible please.

101G.

 

[Muffled]

Malachi 4:5-6 reports,

Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes. And he will turn the hearts of fathers to their children and the hearts of children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the land with a decree of utter destruction.

What does it mean that Eliyahu will return? Many Christians believe John the Baptist was him, but only symbolically as reincarnation is disallowed by NT theology. What do Jews believe? What do you think this means? I would recommend reading the whole book of Malachi as it's not long at all and would give a full context.

I believe you are in error. Re-incarnation is not disallowed by the NT and the passage about John the Baptist being Elijah is proof since even John could tell he didn't have the body of Elijah.

 

[Muffled]

Jews traditionally under that verse as saying that it will be Eliyahu himself who will return. This is attested by hundreds if not thousands of later sources. That said, I think I once saw a more modern Jewish interpretation that it will be a different prophet with the same name.

I believe when one des not have the word of God one can come up with several speculations.

 

[Muffled]

2 Kings 1:8

8 And they answered him, He was an hairy man, and girt with a girdle of leather about his loins. And he said, It is Elijah the Tishbite.

Matthew 3:4

4 And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.


Elijah/John the Baptist has Same Clothing and a Belt around the loins. Remember that one of the Twins Esau is a Hairy Man.

I believe even though mostly we can't remember past lives and John didn't remember being Elijah, the tendencies towards religion and costume tend to follow the spirit into the next life.

 

[2ndpillar]

Luke 3 is open ended, and the translators added their interpretation. Take away the translators interpretation 'son of' in Luke 3:23, and write 'son in law of' instead! Then you have a paternal line through Mary's father, Heli.

It's quite clear from Matthew's Gospel that Joseph's father was Jacob, not Heli.

Well, you can throw a pig out of an airplane and say pigs fly, but in reality, that is a false construction, which is a bit contrived. You need two witness statements to confirm any matter, and you do not even have one which is firm in content. In Matthew, the total number of generations is not correct according to my old time math. In Luke, you have some unknown author, who appears to have a relationship with the false prophet Paul, making a different connection between David and Yeshua. I don't know. If that is where you want to plant your flag, I think you will need lots of help with respect to standing up when the winds, rain, and floods come (Mt 7:27). Oh yeah, the text reads, that "house" (Gentile church) will "fall".

 

[Elihoenai]

I believe that the narrative of Jesus in the wilderness was filled in by speculation long after he left this world. I don’t believe that Satan ever had the power to lead Jesus anywhere.

Jesus taught faith and service to others not affliction of the soul! Like Isaiah’s injunction:

They ask me for just decisions
and seem eager for God to come near them.
3‘Why have we fasted,’ they say,
‘and you have not seen it?
Why have we humbled ourselves,
and you have not noticed?’
“Yet on the day of your fasting, you do as you please
and exploit all your workers.
4Your fasting ends in quarreling and strife,
and in striking each other with wicked fists.
You cannot fast as you do today
and expect your voice to be heard on high.
5Is this the kind of fast I have chosen,
only a day for people to humble themselves?
Is it only for bowing one’s head like a reed
and for lying in sackcloth and ashes?
Is that what you call a fast,
a day acceptable to the Lord?
6“Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen:
to loose the chains of injustice
and untie the cords of the yoke,
to set the oppressed free
and break every yoke?
7Is it not to share your food with the hungry
and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter—
when you see the naked, to clothe them,
and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?
8Then your light will break forth like the dawn,
and your healing will quickly appear;
then your righteousness a will go before you,
and the glory of the Lord will be your rear guard.
9Then you will call, and the Lord will answer;
you will cry for help, and he will say: Here am I.
“If you do away with the yoke of oppression,
with the pointing finger and malicious talk,
10and if you spend yourselves in behalf of the hungry
and satisfy the needs of the oppressed,
then your light will rise in the darkness,
and your night will become like the noonday.
11The Lord will guide you always;
he will satisfy your needs in a sun-scorched land
and will strengthen your frame.
You will be like a well-watered garden,
like a spring whose waters never fail.
12Your people will rebuild the ancient ruins
and will raise up the age-old foundations;
you will be called Repairer of Broken Walls,
Restorer of Streets with Dwellings.

Ecclesiastes 3:4

4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;


It's Certainly Not Speculation. Those that cannot see that the Holy Scriptures/Bible from Genesis to Revelation is a Unified Whole Speculate on the Scriptures and that includes almost all the 2.2 Billion of Christians in Christendom.


I Am Christian Gnostic and that means I Agree with Everything in the Holy Scriptures/Bible from Genesis to Revelation. I Accept Elohim's/God's
Requirement for Great Sorrow/Affliction. Great Sorrow/Affliction is Required in the Journey to Restoration.


You are a Disciple of the Urantia Book. Are you not required to Fast as part of your Discipleship? Is you Discipleship about Feasting? What is the meaning of Spiritual to Disciples of Urantia?

 

[Elihoenai]

I believe even though mostly we can't remember past lives and John didn't remember being Elijah, the tendencies towards religion and costume tend to follow the spirit into the next life.

Luke 22:19

19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.


Yeshua/Jesus Commanded this do in Remembrance of me. In the same way Yeshua/Jesus is Remembered, Elijah is Remembered by John the Baptist. When Christians get Baptised in Water they Remember John the Baptist/Elijah.


What happens when someone is baptised?

 

[Colt]

Ecclesiastes 3:4

4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;


It's Certainly Not Speculation. Those that cannot see that the Holy Scriptures/Bible from Genesis to Revelation is a Unified Whole Speculate on the Scriptures and that includes almost all the 2.2 Billion of Christians in Christendom.


I Am Christian Gnostic and that means I Agree with Everything in the Holy Scriptures/Bible from Genesis to Revelation. I Accept Elohim's/God's
Requirement for Great Sorrow/Affliction. Great Sorrow/Affliction is Required in the Journey to Restoration.


You are a Disciple of the Urantia Book. Are you not required to Fast as part of your Discipleship? Is you Discipleship about Feasting? What is the meaning of Spiritual to Disciples of Urantia?

Disciple means I’m a follower of Jesus, of the original pre-cross Gospel.

I reject biblical idolatry! I see the Bible books as the written word, mostly human, flawed and unreliable sources of history.

Afflicting the soul is self centered! Forget self and serve others. Fast if weight loss is necessary.

 

[2ndpillar]

It's Certainly Not Speculation. Those that cannot see that the Holy Scriptures/Bible from Genesis to Revelation is a Unified Whole Speculate on the Scriptures and that includes almost all the 2.2 Billion of Christians in Christendom.

Your "2.2 billion of Christians" would be with respect to the "many" of Mt 7:13, which are on the wide path to "destruction". Yeshua in Rev 18:4 urges them to "come out of her", the "her" being the "daughters of Babylon", which include the Roman church and her daughters, or "receive of her plagues". The last "plague" will be the "plague" of the "day of the LORD" whereas the "LORD" puts a plague on the nations surrounding Jerusalem, the plague similar in nature to the plague of radiation poisoning. (Zech 14). Your "scriptures" contain the "message" of the "enemy", along side of the "message" of the "son of man" (Mt 13:25-50).

NASB 1995
Now this will be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the peoples who have gone to war against Jerusalem; their flesh will rot while they stand on their feet, and their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongue will rot in their mouth.

NASB 1995
“But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went away.

 

[Elihoenai]

Disciple means I’m a follower of Jesus, of the original pre-cross Gospel.

I reject biblical idolatry! I see the Bible books as the written word, mostly human, flawed and unreliable sources of history.

Afflicting the soul is self centered! Forget self and serve others. Fast if weight loss is necessary.

Romans 8:13

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Colossians 3:5

5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:


Yes, as you can see readers, people are Seeing different Yeshua/Jesus. There are Different Interpretations about who Yeshua/Jesus is and that's why the Different Denominations. That's why you get Nazi-KKK and Quakers/Anabaptist Christians.


All of the Groups are claiming to be the True Follower of the Real Yeshua/Jesus of the Original Gospel. I Am Asserting the same: Are There Any Religious Ascetics On These Forums?


@cOLTER, Do get your version of Yeshua/Jesus from the Urantia Book and Not the Holy Scriptures/Bible?


Any intelligent person on these forums can see that Fasting is Self-Denial and Not Self-Centredness. When you Deny Yourself Pleasure you want to do that is Self-Denial. Explain what you mean by Fasting being Self-Centered. True Christianity is about Destroying The Self and Not being Self-Centered. Self-Centeredness is sleeping with another Man's wife because you Cannot Deny Yourself the Pleasure of her.

 

[Colt]

Romans 8:13

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Colossians 3:5

5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:


Yes, as you can see readers, people are Seeing different Yeshua/Jesus. There are Different Interpretations about who Yeshua/Jesus is and that's why the Different Denominations. That's why you get Nazi-KKK and Quakers/Anabaptist Christians.


All of the Groups are claiming to be the True Follower of the Real Yeshua/Jesus of the Original Gospel. I Am Asserting the same: Are There Any Religious Ascetics On These Forums?


@cOLTER, Do get your version of Yeshua/Jesus from the Urantia Book and Not the Holy Scriptures/Bible?


Any intelligent person on these forums can see that Fasting is Self-Denial and Not Self-Centredness. When you Deny Yourself Pleasure you want to do that is Self-Denial. Explain what you mean by Fasting being Self-Centered. True Christianity is about Destroying The Self and Not being Self-Centered. Self-Centeredness is sleeping with another Man's wife because you Cannot Deny Yourself the Pleasure of her.

Jesus taught self-control not self-denial. If by mortifying you mean self-control then yes, that's fine. If mortifying by "fasting" means controlling a healthy diet as opposed to gluttony, then fine! Anorexia and Bulimia are a self-centered, self-obsessed form of behavior or fasting.

The liberating religion of Jesus was self-forgetting and the serving of others.

 

[2ndpillar]

Yes, as you can see readers, people are Seeing different Yeshua/Jesus. There are Different Interpretations about who Yeshua/Jesus is and that's why the Different Denominations. That's why you get Nazi-KKK and Quakers/Anabaptist Christians.

You get around 33,000 different "Christian" sects because they follow the "enemy" of Mt 13:25, who is the false prophet Paul, whose church is the church of Babylon, the church of Babel, as in the church of confusion, which is mirrored in your quotes, all coming from false prophet Paul, who did not deny himself, and simply did what the "evil" within him dictated (Romans 7:19)

New American Standard Bible Romans 7:19
For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Oh yes, it is. it's just you not willing to accept the TRUTH.

where is Adam bloodline? who did he descend from..... biologically? listen and Learn, Isaiah 53:2 "For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him."
understand, Mary womb was dry Ground, neither sperm nor human egg was used. notice, Root here is the beginning. he the Lord Jesus in Flesh is the NEW MAN that was to come. that's why we all will get NEW BODIES. not like the one's our parents gave us but the body God, the Lord Jesus will give us. this is why he sprang out.... of Juda, a NEW BEGINNING. supportive scripture. Hebrews 7:14 "For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood." sprang "OUT", not from Juda, but "OUT of Juda, he has no human beginning with anyone's human BLOOD which is contaminated with sin. that's why his sacrifice was perfect...innocence, free from SIN.

if joseph sperm was used, or Mary's eggs was used our Lord would not be the perfect sacrifice.

Know and understand your bible please.

101G.

You have a very arrogant manner, and it does not speak to me of truth!

You claim that Jesus was not a human in the blood line of Adam. In this case, the genealogy of Jesus in Luke has no place in the New Testament!

It has been a central belief of Jews for millennia that the Messiah would be the descendant of David. Are you claiming that, in fact, the Messiah is not a descendant of David?

If you know your Bible, then you will know that Isaiah 11 is all about the 'stem of Jesse'. Who do you think this might be?

 

[101G]

You have a very arrogant manner, and it does not speak to me of truth!

arrogant? to you maybe, or is just confidence of 101G.

You claim that Jesus was not a human in the blood line of Adam. In this case, the genealogy of Jesus in Luke has no place in the New Testament!

why not, who is you to make that decision? is it not a LEGAL "BIRTHRIGHT" genealogy. thank you..... READ Isaiah 9:6 a Child id "BORN", but the Son is "GIVEN". understand now?

It has been a central belief of Jews for millennia that the Messiah would be the descendant of David. Are you claiming that, in fact, the Messiah is not a descendant of David?

DID I? read my post ... carefully.

If you know your Bible, then you will know that Isaiah 11 is all about the 'stem of Jesse'. Who do you think this might be?

101G know his bible, but do you KNOW who is the "ROOT" of Jesse that this stem, Shiloh, came? .... (smile).... now, same chapter, Isaiah 11:10 "And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious." now your answer please. .... (smile)

101G.

 

[Redemptionsong]

arrogant? to you maybe, or is just confidence of 101G.

why not, who is you to make that decision? is it not a LEGAL "BIRTHRIGHT" genealogy. thank you..... READ Isaiah 9:6 a Child id "BORN", but the Son is "GIVEN". understand now?

DID I? read my post ... carefully.

101G know his bible, but do you KNOW who is the "ROOT" of Jesse that this stem, Shiloh, came? .... (smile).... now, same chapter, Isaiah 11:10 "And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious." now your answer please. .... (smile)

101G.

The question is whether or not Jesus inherits a human blood line through Mary, and nothing you have said, or quoted, suggests that Mary's ovum was not used.

There is no need for providing two legal genealogies. The legal and royal genealogy is found in Matthew.

 

[101G]

The question is whether or not Jesus inherits a human bloodline through Mary,

ERROR, no, once again, no, the Lord Jesus inherited nothing from Mary or anyone else. without mother, without father. the only thing mattered is "BIRTHRIGHT"..... meaning LEGAL BIRTHRIGHT. by sheer birth.

let 101G put it in layman's terms for you. say for instance, fior argument sake. a Chinese couple comes to the UNITED STATES on a visiting visa. this couple, the wife is pregnant. while here in America she inexpertly goes into labor and bare a child. question, is the Child a US citizen by blood, or by BIRTH?

101G.

 

[Redemptionsong]

ERROR, no, once again, no, the Lord Jesus inherited nothing from Mary or anyone else. without mother, without father. the only thing mattered is "BIRTHRIGHT"..... meaning LEGAL BIRTHRIGHT. by sheer birth.

let 101G put it in layman's terms for you. say for instance, fior argument sake. a Chinese couple comes to the UNITED STATES on a visiting visa. this couple, the wife is pregnant. while here in America she inexpertly goes into labor and bare a child. question, is the Child a US citizen by blood, or by BIRTH?

101G.

More of your arrogant talk! 'let 101G put it in layman's terms for you'!

If Jesus inherited nothing from Mary, then he was not a human being of flesh and blood. The orthodox Christian position is that Jesus was fully man and fully God. Clearly, you disagree!

When do you think God came to dwell on earth amongst men? At the birth of Jesus, or at his baptism?

 

[101G]

More of your arrogant talk! 'let 101G put it in layman's terms for you'!

no, just making it for the simple minded.

If Jesus inherited nothing from Mary, then he was not a human being of flesh and blood. The orthodox Christian position is that Jesus was fully man and fully God. Clearly, you disagree!

we suggest you read my post to YoursTruly here, JESUS, God, the Ordinal First and Last

When do you think God came to dwell on earth amongst men? At the birth of Jesus, or at his baptism?

Both in the Echad, do you need the Layman's view?

101G

 

[Zwing]

…I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes.

Well, ‘tis been quite awhile since Malachi…

What do you think this means?

Probably that it ain’t gonna happen(?)

Somewhat more seriously, this short passage is composed of the types of phrases that were virtually ubiquitous among the Hebrew prophets. I think that the frequency of these certain types of phrasal inclusions suggest that they serve a rhetorical, rather than an indicative function; that rather than indicating a actual event to take place, they were rhetorical devices employed to impart a jussive sense to the suggestion to which they are syntactically joined. When a prophet mentions “the great and awesome day of the Lord” or a coming the prophet Elijah, I think that he does so only to render imperative whatever language adjoins such phrases. Here, the full statement is that, “I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes. And he will turn the hearts of fathers to their children and the hearts of children to their fathers…”. In so saying, the prophet wishes to suggest that a lative relationship between fathers (or parents) and their children within Israel should be considered crucial, rather than of minor import or simply optional. This amounts to using a rhetorical, as opposed to a grammatical device in order to create an imperative mood. As such, I don’t think that the author (prophet Malachi (?)) intended to indicate any certain coming of Elijah, or indeed of the day of the Lord, at all.