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Enlightenment... are you enlighten ?

SugaCubez352

SugaCubez352

Member
joea said:
How does one knows, if he's enlighten ?. can everybody attain enlightenment at some point in time ?. My understanding of this is lower case, thus the reason of bringing it up for more discussion.
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The following are just my personal opinions and perspective, and NOT truths; therefore, I am open to correction:

"How does one knows, if he's enlighten ?"

First we would have to figure out what exactly we each mean when we say the word "enlightenment."

"can everybody attain enlightenment at some point in time ?"

Yes, depending on what we mean when we say "enlightenment" though.

Enlightenment?

It seems as though in the Occident, or with a "Western" mind-set, when I hear the word "Enlightenment" I think of a light bulb over my head going on, and me saying "Aha! Eureka!"

Or I think of going to college to get higher education to be "enlightened." Or I think of the English and European Age of Enlightenment during which time people began to Question religious dogma they once took on faith... and the humanism, deist, natural philosophy, and empirical science that was born out of that Great Era.

So in this sense, I do believe that each and every one of us can be enlightened, if we just took the time to question dogma and popular beliefs, study the writings and minds of great men in the past to learn to see things from their perspective, and so on.

But this "Westerny" kind of Enlightenment is very different in essence to the "Oriental/Buddhist" meaning of the word "Enlightenment."

The word "Enlightenment," amazingly doesn't exist as a word in any Asian language... because it is an English word/concept/meme. Which means that we need to find a word in one of these Asian languages that is close to the word Enlightenment.

Buddha?

The word "Buddha" is translated into English as "Enlightened One." Which is a nice translation... but one that may be misleading. By "misleading" I mean to say that as soon as we translate the word Buddha into "Enlightened" a Western mind automatically on a subjective level ascribes what it knows and assumes to be "Enlightenement" to the word. Which may cause the Western Mind to be distracted from the essence of the word "Buddh."

The word Buddh/Buddha, does not really mean "enlightenment" or "enlightened one."

I'll give you a list of words related to the root "BUDDH" with their meaning, so we can get a feel for what "enlightenment/buddh" means in Buddhism (source - Sanskrit Dictionary for Spoken Sanskrit ):

बुद्ध buddha adj. understood
बुद्ध buddha adj. conscious
बुद्ध buddha adj. intelligent
बुद्ध buddha adj. awakened
बुद्ध buddha adj. awake
बुद्ध buddha m. the enlightened
बुद्ध buddha m. Buddha
बुद्ध buddha m. enlightened one
बुद्ध buddha m. awakened one
बुद्ध buddha ppp. woken up
बुद्धि buddhi f. intelligence
बुद्धि buddhi f. intellectual faculty
बुद्धि buddhi f. apprehension
बुद्धि buddhi f. mental attitude
बुद्धि buddhi f. mind
बुद्धि buddhi f. resolve
बुद्धि buddhi f. decision
बुद्धि buddhi f. intellect
बुद्धि buddhi f. intuition
बुद्धि buddhi f. realization
बुद्धि buddhi f. inkling
बुद्धि buddhi f. brainpower
बुद्धि buddhi f. prescience
बुद्धि buddhi f. opinion
बुद्धि buddhi f. point of view
बुद्धि buddhi f. knowledge
बुद्धि buddhi m. perception
बुद्धि buddhi m. reason
बुद्धि buddhi m. talent
बुद्धि buddhi m. wit


So for me, when I think of the word "enlightenment/buddhi" from a more Buddhistic/Oriental perspective I think of Waking up in the morning from a sleep and Waking up from a dream.

When I Wake up from a dream in the morning, I really don't become superhuman with superwisdom and superlogic. Nothing in mind in me has really changed but a perspective or realization.

When I Wake up in the morning from a dream, I often say to myself "Oh... that was all just a dream... I was just dreaming."

So "enlightenment/buddhi" from a Buddhist POV is like Waking up from a dream. All it is is your Mind/Consciousness (buddha) shifting or moving from one state of consciousness (dreams) to another one (waking reality).

Can anybody become "enlightened/buddhi?"

Yes, but it is very hard and does not happened often.

For example when we do sleep and dream, as often as we each dream at night, of all the dreaming moments we each have experienced how many times have you Consciously Realized in your dreams that you are actually dreaming?

It's rare for us to Awaken in the middle of a dream and actually Realize that we are actually inside a dream :) Usually we are "lost" or far to engrossed or enthralled in the dream to Consciously Awaken in it to Realize that we are dreaming. because of this state of "ignorance/enthrallment" our only hope of ever leaving our dream world is when morning comes.

But it is possible to experience the deliberate act of Waking up in the middle of a dream. It's called Lucid Dreaming. It's a technique that actually works, if you have ever tried it. And to experience the it for the first time is a shock!

I practice this one technique were I go about my day telling myself that "this is all a dream," over and over again. Then every night before I go drift off I tell myself "I will wake up in my dream" as an affirmation. It took a few months of doing this but I had my first experience.

I had a dream I was in school. I was in my classroom, walking to my desk and talking to friends as usual, and our teacher said that we were going to take an exam so he requested we remove our books from our desk and take our a number 2 pencil. So I did.

When I got my exam paper, I noticed that I remember already taking the exam and that I got a bad grade (C-). I started to get worried because I didn't know we were retaking it and I didn't study for it! So I said to the teacher "I already took this test, and I past... but you didn't tell us we were going to take it again. I didn't study for a retake?"

And the teacher looked at me and said "No, you're mistaken, this is the first time I'm giving this test out. I gave you and everybody plenty of time to study for it. It's not my fault you are irresponsible."

So I freaked out and I got mad and I got up and yelled out "No! I already took it. I past! I'm not taking it again!" The teacher looks at me and says "please sit down miss (my name), you're disrupting my class."

When he said that I was looking at my friend who sits to my right who was telling me to sit down because I was freaking out.

That's when it hit me. I looked at my friend and I said to her "This is a dream. I already took this test. You're not real Nicole." My friend Nicole said back to me "Dude what the hell is wrong with you? This isn't a dream."

I remember looking around as everybody was staring at me like I was crazy. But I was fully Awake and Conscious inside the dream and I was completely blown away by the feeling of it because it was something I had never experienced before. And the more I realized everybody was a dream, the more the scenery faded into blackness. Then I woke up.

In Buddhism the process of working on Awakening oneself is referred to as "Sambuddhi" meaning Self-Awakening.

Can everybody actualize the end result of Sambuddhi (Self "enlightenment")?

It's possible... but very hard. If it is very hard to even Awaken consciously inside our own dreams, how much harder is it to Awaken from "all of this" which we were born, raised, and conditioned inside of... which is the only reality we have ever known?

Sambuddhi reminds me of that movie The Matirx, when people "unplug" themselves from the only reality they ever knew... whereby they came to a shocking Realization.
 
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Mr Cheese

Mr Cheese

Well-Known Member
Jesus was known as Jesus the Nazorean. He was called the Nazorean because the customs and practices of the Nazoreans were a significant part of His message and teachings. By carefully studying ancient historians, modern anthropologists and seers who have spoken of these Nazoreans, we can reconstruct many ancient Nazorean customs and traditions which formed such a significant part of the original Message of Jesus. By acquainting ourselves with the ancient Nazorean Way we place ourselves in a position to truly keep the commandment of “Jesus the Nazorean” when He said: “Follow Me.”

Nazirutha is the Mandaean/Aramaic name for Nazorean Gnosis. Those among the Mandaeans who possess secret knowledge are called Nazuraiia, or Nazoreans. The less enlightened lay Mandeaeans are called Mandaiia, meaning “gnostics”. True enlightenment, however, is considered very rare and is called Nazirutha.

- The Secret Adam by Drower, pg xvi
 
Sunstone

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
As a practical matter, not everyone will attain enlightenment. Therefore, it is speculative to declare that everyone can attain enlightenment.
 
Rainbow Mage

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
Sunstone said:
As a practical matter, not everyone will attain enlightenment. Therefore, it is speculative to declare that everyone can attain enlightenment.
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In my school of Buddhism it is known and taught that not everyone can gain enlightenment. However, a person can live a good life and do good deeds even if they are not enlightened. Then again, there are different levels of enlightenment people can attain. I think pretty well the whole of humanity has attained a certain level in this day and time. Attaining enlightenment is not the only way to be liberated from rebirth. One can become a Bodhisattva, which in my school of Buddhism, is defined as a person who lives their life for others, striving to help others as much as they can. After death such a person can become an immortal Bodhisattva, if their wish is to ascend to the Pure Land so that they can help other living beings here on this plane. Then again, some of the teachings about the Pure Land of the gods also say that the gods will justify some because of their many good works, in other words, if a person is just a really virtueous person, and a god decides to reward his virtue with salvation.
 
DallasApple

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Mr Cheese said:
Jesus was known as Jesus the Nazorean. He was called the Nazorean because the customs and practices of the Nazoreans were a significant part of His message and teachings. By carefully studying ancient historians, modern anthropologists and seers who have spoken of these Nazoreans, we can reconstruct many ancient Nazorean customs and traditions which formed such a significant part of the original Message of Jesus. By acquainting ourselves with the ancient Nazorean Way we place ourselves in a position to truly keep the commandment of “Jesus the Nazorean” when He said: “Follow Me.”

Nazirutha is the Mandaean/Aramaic name for Nazorean Gnosis. Those among the Mandaeans who possess secret knowledge are called Nazuraiia, or Nazoreans. The less enlightened lay Mandeaeans are called Mandaiia, meaning “gnostics”. True enlightenment, however, is considered very rare and is called Nazirutha.

- The Secret Adam by Drower, pg xvi
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Thats very pretty..

Like a birds wings spread..

Love

Dallas
 
joea

joea

Oshoyoi
I have a spiritual master who says, we are all enlighten we just don't know it. There is nothing to achieve, nothing to gain..only to realize...then I wonder, was this is why I have found my master ?...is this enlightenment ?. I will never say I'm enlighten, because the very moment you say you are, you're not..
 
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DallasApple

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
joea said:
I have a spiritual master who says, we are all enlighten we just don't know it. There is nothing to achieve, nothing to gain..only to realize...then I wonder, was this is why I have found my master ?...is this enlightenment ?. I will never say I'm enlighten, because the very moment you say you are, you're not..
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The very moment you say you are you are choked to death..

Love

Dallas
 
Madhuri

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
joea said:
I have a spiritual master who says, we are all enlighten we just don't know it. There is nothing to achieve, nothing to gain..only to realize...then I wonder, was this is why I have found my master ?...is this enlightenment ?. I will never say I'm enlighten, because the very moment you say you are, you're not..
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Our Self is spiritual and you could say enlightened. I tend to see realisation and enlightenment as the same thing so I agree with your master that all we need is to realise our true nature/Self.
 
zenzero

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend joea,

Enlightenment... are you enlighten ?
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Does the Sun know that it is the Sun?
The moment it knows that, it will have an *ego* which will not allow it to shine for everyone. It will only shine for his own people that worships him etc.
Likewise *enlightenment* is not an object that one achieves ; it is simply there. When one has it, others around know and feel it but the enlightened person is not claiming it.

Love & rgds
 
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