Enlightenment... are you enlighten ?

[dust1n]

Friend joea,


Does the Sun know that it is the Sun?
The moment it knows that, it will have an *ego* which will not allow it to shine for everyone. It will only shine for his own people that worships him etc.
Likewise *enlightenment* is not an object that one achieves ; it is simply there. When one has it, others around know and feel it but the enlightened person is not claiming it.

Love & rgds

Reminds me of the story of Socrates and the Oracle. Socrates went the Oracle and asked who the wisest man in the world was. The Oracle said Aristotle. Socrates told Aristotle, and Aristotle replied, 'What? I can't be the wisest man in the world.'

 

[Mr Cheese]

He who is All-Wise, and All-Knowing, whose Greatness is thus manifested in the worlds, is to be meditated upon as the Âtman residing in the Ether, in the Fourth Dimensional Space, in the shining city of Brahman (the Heart). He is the Controller of the mind and the Guide of the senses and the body. He abides in the dense body, controlling the heart. He, the Âtman, when manifesting Himself as the Blissful and Immortal, is seen by the wise through the purity of the heart.

–The Devi Gita (song of the Goddess)
………..
“Then,” Buddha asked, “does the fully enlightened one, ever think, ‘full enlightenment is mine’?”
“Indeed not,” Subhuti answered, “for nothing ultimately real is called fully enlightened, and that is why one who is fully enlightened is called fully enlightened. If one who is fully enlightened ever thought ‘the fruit of being fully enlightened is mine’, he would grasp a self, a personality, a soul or a concept of being.”

–The Diamond cutter sutra

 

[Willamena]

That is totally negative..You have a negative attitude...Its very dark..

It doesn't have to be seen in that light (or lack thereof).

If you take that enlightenment isn't the realization of enlightenment but what is realized, no one is enlightened--there is only enlightenment.

 

[Kerr]

How does one knows, if he's enlighten ?. can everybody attain enlightenment at some point in time ?. My understanding of this is lower case, thus the reason of bringing it up for more discussion.

I know I am not enlightened. But at last I can spell to the word .

 

[YmirGF]

How does one knows, if he's enlighten ?

Realization is a born of a fairly radical change in perspective, both internally and externally. It' sort of hard to miss actually. You'll know when you are There.

Can everybody attain enlightenment at some point in time ?

Theoretically, yes, however, practically speaking -- not really, although all have their moments.

My understanding of this is lower case, thus the reason of bringing it up for more discussion.

In any case, it is bound to get some interesting responses from a crowd that knows little.

This tune puts into nicely into focus ---===>>>
[youtube]vEXwNpSxDgU[/youtube]
Dare to Live - Rotersand

At the end of the day, I would neither confirm or deny to being enlightened. It isn't something I would give an unequivocal answer to. Enlightenment is a term best used as an appellation by others rather than as an honorific claimed by oneself. That said, I no longer waste an iota of a second on "becoming enlightened" and see no reason to backtrack at this stage of my experience.

 

[joea]

Realization is a born of a fairly radical change in perspective, both internally and externally. It' sort of hard to miss actually. You'll know when you are There.

Theoretically, yes, however, practically speaking -- not really, although all have their moments.

In any case, it is bound to get some interesting responses from a crowd that knows little.

This tune puts into nicely into focus ---===>>>
[youtube]vEXwNpSxDgU[/youtube]
Dare to Live - Rotersand

At the end of the day, I would neither confirm or deny to being enlightened. It isn't something I would give an unequivocal answer to. Enlightenment is a term best used as an appellation by others rather than as an honorific claimed by oneself. That said, I no longer waste an iota of a second on "becoming enlightened" and see no reason to backtrack at this stage of my experience.

Exactly right, it's either you are or you are not. I thought to throw it into the forum because I know so many people do not really understand what enlightenment is...

 

[Flow]

How does one knows, if he's enlighten ?.

When thoughts have been destroyed. Its as simple as that. Right when thoughts have ceased momentarily its called insight. When they have ceased permanently, thats Enlightenment.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Taoist,

Well explained!
[frubals]
Love & rgds

 

[Willowmina]

YmirGF,
The second mouse gets the cheese.....now that's enlightened :bow:

 

[Twilight Hue]

If you take that enlightenment isn't the realization of enlightenment but what is realized, no one is enlightened--there is only enlightenment.

I would say that's just about the closest a person will ever get using intellectualizations to "explain" the experience of ((""cough"")) enlightenment. Well said.

By the way, the second mouse is constipated from what I hear.

 

[Twilight Hue]

When thoughts have been destroyed. Its as simple as that. Right when thoughts have ceased momentarily its called insight. When they have ceased permanently, thats Enlightenment.

Nope.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

When they have ceased permanently, thats Enlightenment.

So deep sleep and a vegetative state is enlightenment ?

 

[Willowmina]

I would say that's just about the closest a person will ever get using intellectualizations to "explain" the experience of ((""cough"")) enlightenment. Well said.

By the way, the second mouse is constipated from what I hear.

hehehe...better constipated than dead like the first one {: o)

 

[Peacewise]

How does one knows, if he's enlighten ?. can everybody attain enlightenment at some point in time ?. My understanding of this is lower case, thus the reason of bringing it up for more discussion.

Well mate, you gotta come up with a definition of enlightenment first.

Perhaps in Buddhism, enlightenment is a final spiritual state in which everything is understood and there is no more suffering or desire. (Google dictionary lookup)

Some might say that being an enlightened capitalist could mean that the enlightened person is aware of all the forms and states and consequences of capitalism.

 

[joea]

Well mate, you gotta come up with a definition of enlightenment first.

Perhaps in Buddhism, enlightenment is a final spiritual state in which everything is understood and there is no more suffering or desire. (Google dictionary lookup)

Some might say that being an enlightened capitalist could mean that the enlightened person is aware of all the forms and states and consequences of capitalism.

Enlightenment is not an achievement. It is an understanding that there is nothing to achieve, you are already what you are.

 

[Valjean]

From an Eastern perspective the essence of enlightenment is expanded consciousness or awareness, not just great wisdom or learning.

Currently our senses and awareness are very limited. We see only a narrow band of the electromagnetic spectrum and hear only limited frequencies. We exist in only one place at a time and, in fact, experience only one time at a time sarcastic) -- and even that at a constant and unidirectional rate.

Enlightened awareness is an expansion of the three dimensions we currently perceive to the eleven or so proposed by current physics. An enlightened person transcends time and space. He exists and is fully aware of past, present and future simultaneously. He is fully present in all places simultaneously. He comprehends the full lifetime experiences of every being that has ever/will ever exist simultaneously.

He becomes the Universe, omnipresent and omniscient.

 

[Peacewise]

Enlightenment is not an achievement. It is an understanding that there is nothing to achieve, you are already what you are.

Well thank you for that expression joea, but I disagree.

"enlightenment 1. the act of enlightening. 2. the state of being enlightened. 3. (Hinduism and Buddhism) the condition that revelation brings to the believer who has striven for its attainment, making the believer henceforth separated from the rest of humankind." - Macquarie Dictionary 5th Edition 2009.

therefore, enlightenment is a state and it can be achieved by a being, hence it is an achievement. Being enlightened is very much to do with striving for revelation - not about understanding there is nothing to achieve, as defined by the Macquarie.

If you have another definition of enlightenment, then please post it up.

 

[joea]

Well thank you for that expression joea, but I disagree.

"enlightenment 1. the act of enlightening. 2. the state of being enlightened. 3. (Hinduism and Buddhism) the condition that revelation brings to the believer who has striven for its attainment, making the believer henceforth separated from the rest of humankind." - Macquarie Dictionary 5th Edition 2009.

therefore, enlightenment is a state and it can be achieved by a being, hence it is an achievement. Being enlightened is very much to do with striving for revelation - not about understanding there is nothing to achieve, as defined by the Macquarie.

If you have another definition of enlightenment, then please post it up.

My dear Ozzi friend, my thread was meant to be a discussion..not a debate. Lol

 

[Peacewise]

Well debate is one form of discussion - but that of course is debatable, my dear kiwi mate.

Nothingness is one path to enlightenment, that state of nothingness within oneself that allows one to experience the universe as it truly is - rather than applying our various preconceptions and experiences to weigh the observation against ourself. yet IMO it's still an achievement to achieve this nothingness, in the definition of the term "achievement" since one strives to achieve it. lol.

Silence being the beginning to wisdom and hence enlightenment, silence within is nothingness within.

At the successful end state of the striving for all knowledge there will be a revelation that there is no more to achieve - as you say, and this is enlightenment. yet without all knowledge nor the striving for it there can not be enlightenment... or so it seems to me.

Two paths I feel. Removing all our misconceptions and observing perfectly.
or Knowing all and hence having no misconceptions and observing perfectly.
Perhaps they are the same path.

As was my original allusion, enlightenment must first be defined for it to be discussed. I suppose there are stages of enlightenment, and the end state is knowing all, whilst an earlier state may be knowing that one does not know.

 

[joea]

Well debate is one form of discussion - but that of course is debatable, my dear kiwi mate.

Nothingness is one path to enlightenment, that state of nothingness within oneself that allows one to experience the universe as it truly is - rather than applying our various preconceptions and experiences to weigh the observation against ourself. yet IMO it's still an achievement to achieve this nothingness, in the definition of the term "achievement" since one strives to achieve it. lol.

Silence being the beginning to wisdom and hence enlightenment, silence within is nothingness within.

At the successful end state of the striving for all knowledge there will be a revelation that there is no more to achieve - as you say, and this is enlightenment. yet without all knowledge nor the striving for it there can not be enlightenment... or so it seems to me.

Two paths I feel. Removing all our misconceptions and observing perfectly.
or Knowing all and hence having no misconceptions and observing perfectly.
Perhaps they are the same path.

As was my original allusion, enlightenment must first be defined for it to be discussed. I suppose there are stages of enlightenment, and the end state is knowing all, whilst an earlier state may be knowing that one does not know.

All good.