Epilepsy = demonic possession!

[oldbadger]

I assure you that I didn't miss anything. I can't think of a single person I have known who thought that angels existed. Wait, there was one weirdo that had mental problems that I knew when I was in my late teens. Okay, 1 person in my entire lifetime. Then again, I live in uber-left-wing atheist land.

Hi again....
The above was sent to another member.

Surely every Christian has to believe in both Angels and Demons? Because if they don't then they don't believe in all of the gospels?

An interesting kind of conundrum?

 

[oldbadger]

That's not actually correct. I'm pretty sure if you google it you'll find it's classified as a neurological disorder.

Yes to the above.
Of course neurology is all about physical brain and its activity, but by calming and/or protecting folks from outside influences epilepsy and also psychological hysteria can be reduced or even controlled.

There are many examples:

Because flashing lights can trigger some seizures many TV stations warn viewers if flasshing lights will be shown.

Children singing in groups or choirs. Yep!
This often triggered both epileptic and hysterical fits in a woman. Her family had forced her to have an abortion when she was a girl, which might possibly have been connected.

Flight-travel. I'm amazed at how often 'first seizures' occur after airline travel.

Road anger incidents. Stress at work. Domestic argument or disturbance.

And so epilepsy is, as you say, NOT just a physical condition requiring medication or brain surgery.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

As for producing nothing..... It's not like they would skip around and cry aloud if it did produce something.

Both the Russian (Soviet at the time) and American governments ceases research, and most if not all reputable universities shut down their own programs into it because there was just nothing to be found or had.

 

[Etritonakin]

Both the Russian (Soviet at the time) and American governments ceases research, and most if not all reputable universities shut down their own programs into it because there was just nothing to be found or had.

Well..... They are known for telling us everything that is going on, so.... I guess I buy that.

 

[Skwim]

Yes to the above.
Of course neurology is all about physical brain and its activity, but by calming and/or protecting folks from outside influences epilepsy and also psychological hysteria can be reduced or even controlled.

Having grown up in a family "plagued" by epilepsy it's obvious you've been somewhat misinformed about the nature of the affliction. Calming has absolutely no effect on reducing the onset or the control of epileptic seizures. About all it can offer is psychological comfort---as with any ailment---the neural episode itself is not affected. However, protecting people from epileptic triggers such as flashing lights and person specific triggers can reduce incident rates. That there exists such psychological triggers does not mitigate the nature of the seizure condition: a disruption of the normal electrochemical function of the brain wherein a sudden, uncontrolled, surge in the normal electrical activity occurs, which is a purely "physical condition."

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[oldbadger]

Having grown up in a family "plagued" by epilepsy it's obvious you've been somewhat misinformed about the nature of the affliction.

Having lived beside extreme epilepsy for 20 years it's obvious that you could have benefited from a much wider view of and about epilepsy.

Calming has absolutely no effect on reducing or controlling the onset of epileptic episodes. About all it can offer is psychological comfort---as with any ailment---the neural episode itself is not affected.

Just see what happens to many epileptics if they are upset.
See what can happen to epileptics if they are exposed to certain sounds and types of light, strobes etc.

However, protecting people from epileptic triggers such as flashing lights and person specific triggers can reduce incident rates.

Too late...... you needed to consider all this before your last para.

That there exists such psychological triggers does not mitigate the nature of the seizure condition: a disruption of the normal electrochemical activity of the brain, which is a purely "physical condition."

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Yeah..... but so what?
This is all about how various kinds of seizures could have been recognised as Demonic possression, and how, say, Jesus could have been seen to treat them.

And in the case of hysteria, which is present in a higher % of mediteranean males than, say, Northern European males, and manifests itself in apparent conditions ranging from blindness to strokes, paralysis and many many others, an adored and followed person like Jesus could have had amazing results.

The mere presence of such a person can make a very significant difference in such cases.

And so, whilst Jesus could have been 'seen' to caste out demons and even bring folks back to life (epilpsy) he could have been seen to cure the blind, help the disabled to walk, cure most any 'thing'.

That really what this is all about........
Causes.... and effects...... the neurological science about epilepsy and how a seizure occurs is besides the point, don't you think?

 

[Skwim]

Just see what happens to many epileptics if they are upset.

You are quite right, for some people upsetting situations can trigger seizures.

Yeah..... but so what?

Sorry for having misread your

"And so epilepsy is, as you say, NOT just a physical condition requiring medication or brain surgery."​

as

"And so epilepsy is, as you say, NOT just a physical condition"
​

My bad.

Causes.... and effects...... the neurological science about epilepsy and how a seizure occurs is besides the point, don't you think?

If your point was merely about how various kinds of seizures could have been recognized as Demonic possession, yes; however, you did delve into more than that.

AND, you have my sympathy for "having lived beside extreme epilepsy for 20 years" and my condolences for whoever had the condition. Of those in my family only one ever had a tonic-clonic seizure, and as I understand it this was a one-time occurrence. All the others had the much milder simple partial seizures.

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[oldbadger]

You are quite right, for some people upsetting situations can trigger seizures.


Sorry for having misread your

"And so epilepsy is, as you say, NOT just a physical condition requiring medication or brain surgery."​

as

"And so epilepsy is, as you say, NOT just a physical condition"
​

My bad.



If your point was merely about how various kinds of seizures could have been recognized as Demonic possession, yes; however, you did delve into more than that.

AND, you have my sympathy for "having lived beside extreme epilepsy for 20 years" and my condolences for whoever had the condition. Of those in my family only one ever had a tonic-clonic seizure, and as I understand it this was a one-time occurrence. All the others had the much milder simple partial seizures.

.

Cool
No Probs.....

For what it's worth, I've never heard the term 'tonic-clonic'.

I'm sad that the thread focuses on just epilepsy, because I reckon that hysteria had even more to do with the majority of Jesus's successes that epilepsy. I lived beside the most extreme hysteria (as well) and most of my experiences would be 'hard to believe' even for psychos.

Northern European Males tend not to be affected (N.E.females do) but Latin males are exposed to hysteria. Did you ever watch the 'Sopranos'? Tony Soprano suffered from a type of panic attacks which looked like physical conditions to those around, as did his father and his son and although I guess this series is fiction these details surely got dug up from some factual basis.

In the series 'Band of Brothers' which I believe was written from eye witness accounts, a (latin?) soldier who was exposed to extreme trauma, fear etc experienced blindness for a time.

Long-short, I reckon that Mediterranean males (like the Latins) are more likely to experience hysteria, which could explain the majority of the reported miracles, leaving demonic casting and back-to-life within the epilepsy bracket. But do you think I can find any who actually know about this subject... hysteria? Nada.

 

[Muffled]

According to Matthew 17 v 14-18 it would appear Jesus believed those suffering from epilepsy were possessed by demons! In those far off days, it might have been forgivable for people to believe in such nonsense as a major epileptic seizure is very scary indeed. I have witnessed several as my husband has the condition after his brain haemorrhage in 2006, fortunately his meds control the seizures. In this day and age of modern medicine we know the cause of this condition, and of course mythical demons have nothing to do with it.

I have come across some ultra extreme Biblical literalists who not only believe demons actually exist, but epileptics are possessed by them. Hopefully no one on this forum is that silly?

I believe ASV calls him an epileptic but KJV calls him a lunatic. Obviously there is a big difference and my guess is that someone doing ASV decided to editorialize. No-one at the time knew what epilepsy was and it is vast supposition to say it wa when Jesus who is God in the flesh and knows all things says He cast out a demon.

I believe your characterization is extreme. No doubt there are some who fall into error but I wouldn't call it ultra extreme.

I believe I and my wife have had encounters with demons and don't doubt their existence. I also believe there are those who are so materially minded that they can't envision the truth.

I certainly am not that silly nor do I think that people who have diseases that cause them to move jerkily are possessed but I do believe some Schizophrenics most likely are and some are simply more open to the spirit world.

 

[Muffled]

It didn't say epilepsy. It says her son sometimes acts like a lunatic and falls in the fire or in the water. I actually witnessed someone who had fallen in the water. I was fishing one day and all a sudden I noticed someone out in the middle of the lake next to the bridge I was fishing near, then he started yelling "someone help me". I didn't feel like swimming so I called 911 and went to find the nearest boat. By the time I got back I found him soaking wet walking down the road. I asked what happened and He says he was looking off the bridge, leaned a little too far and fell in the water. He probably dropped 30 feet into the water. It could have been demons that pushed him off, could have been weed I can't say for sure.

I believe I would go with the idea that he was just stupid and overreached his perch.

 

[Muffled]

I had a patient once who had been diagnosed with Alzheimer's. The family wanted to do an exorcism. That was a long day.

I believe it works both ways. Doctors can be just as stupid and stubborn as people. My mother had senility which is similar to Alzheimer's. She couldn't remember who I was. It is a very different syndrome from possession.

 

[BilliardsBall]

According to Matthew 17 v 14-18 it would appear Jesus believed those suffering from epilepsy were possessed by demons! In those far off days, it might have been forgivable for people to believe in such nonsense as a major epileptic seizure is very scary indeed. I have witnessed several as my husband has the condition after his brain haemorrhage in 2006, fortunately his meds control the seizures. In this day and age of modern medicine we know the cause of this condition, and of course mythical demons have nothing to do with it.

I have come across some ultra extreme Biblical literalists who not only believe demons actually exist, but epileptics are possessed by them. Hopefully no one on this forum is that silly?

It is also forgivable to read the Bible wrong and be corrected.

Note carefully in Matthew 8 and elsewhere where in the same sentence it says, "He cast out the demons and also healed all those who were ill."

Some afflictions are demonic. Others are viral, genetic, psychological. Every careful reader of the scripture and every logical person who loves Jesus and knows the supernatural is real knows this.

I'm sorry if you've been abused by some religious people but some people need exorcisms, some need divine healing and some need antibiotics.

 

[Kemosloby]

I believe I would go with the idea that he was just stupid and overreached his perch.

But what made him stupid? Demons?

 

[Skwim]

I believe ASV calls him an epileptic but KJV calls him a lunatic. Obviously there is a big difference and my guess is that someone doing ASV decided to editorialize. No-one at the time knew what epilepsy was and it is vast supposition to say it wa when Jesus who is God in the flesh and knows all things says He cast out a demon.

Just to tighten things up a bit, I looked at Matthew 17:15 in 56 Bibles and found there are nine different descriptions of the son's condition:

Is an epileptic
Has epilepsy
Is a Lunatic/Lunatick
Has seizures
Is mentally deranged
Shakes wildly
Is very sick and at times loses the use of his mind
Suffers from awful fits
A bad spirit is in him​

which Matthew 17:18 says is a condition evidently caused by (again, from the 56 versions):

A Demon
The Devil
An Evil/bad spirit​

whom Jesus rebuked, ordered, reprimanded, commanded, blamed, or spoke harshly to.

.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

When Jesus healed someone they were healed.

And you have their medical records to prove it? How come we hardly ever if never hear of these random photo op people ever again?

That's like saying Jesus had some good meals for the throngs sometimes and then not asking about if anyone was hungry the next day.

There is no evidence that anything attributed to the long dead Jesus had any basis in fact, especially the less than credible stuff like so called 'miracles'.

Though there is enough evidence to suggest that power of suggestion helped most of those people. Just not being a jerk can do wonders for the healing process. When I was a CNA, there was this one patient who was there after a stroke and couldn't be understood, like, ever. I would spend some of my free time with her, having "conversations" with her. By the time I quit that job, she could form complete sentences (they were random because she was crazy, but she was talking, right?). I didn't give her meds and I didn't do any kind of faith healing: I was just nice and the practice of talking in actual conversations improved her condition.

After Jesus had 'healed' somebody they (mostly) went out of the story and we did not hear from them again.

Yep. Nursing 101: Follow up documentation is vital.

Jesus was not there to teach medicine or about demons. Thus, we see in Matthew 4:24 and Matthew 9:32-33 that Jesus cured all who came to him, be they ill, or affected by demons.

Except Headless John. With God, nothing is impossible except fighting against iron weapons and bring the headless back to life.

Demons are real, satan is real. If you want more exciting videos, search for demon magic.

There is only one demon worth watching (clips are dubbed over, so no language worries, LOL):

Many epileptics are prescribed with calming, slowing, placating medications as well as drugs like epilim, epanutim etc.

But do you know WHY?

 

[England my lionheart]

According to Matthew 17 v 14-18 it would appear Jesus believed those suffering from epilepsy were possessed by demons! In those far off days, it might have been forgivable for people to believe in such nonsense as a major epileptic seizure is very scary indeed. I have witnessed several as my husband has the condition after his brain haemorrhage in 2006, fortunately his meds control the seizures. In this day and age of modern medicine we know the cause of this condition, and of course mythical demons have nothing to do with it.

I have come across some ultra extreme Biblical literalists who not only believe demons actually exist, but epileptics are possessed by them. Hopefully no one on this forum is that silly?

I've seen many seizures,there are different types from absence to to tonic clonic which is life threatening,sometimes strange noises from them and odd behaviour but its not a mythological creature doing it.

 

[Kemosloby]

And you have their medical records to prove it? How come we hardly ever if never hear of these random photo op people ever again?

That's like saying Jesus had some good meals for the throngs sometimes and then not asking about if anyone was hungry the next day.


Though there is enough evidence to suggest that power of suggestion helped most of those people. Just not being a jerk can do wonders for the healing process. When I was a CNA, there was this one patient who was there after a stroke and couldn't be understood, like, ever. I would spend some of my free time with her, having "conversations" with her. By the time I quit that job, she could form complete sentences (they were random because she was crazy, but she was talking, right?). I didn't give her meds and I didn't do any kind of faith healing: I was just nice and the practice of talking in actual conversations improved her condition.


Yep. Nursing 101: Follow up documentation is vital.


Except Headless John. With God, nothing is impossible except fighting against iron weapons and bring the headless back to life.


There is only one demon worth watching (clips are dubbed over, so no language worries, LOL):

But do you know WHY?

You never hear about them again because they don't need a follow up visit.

 

[oldbadger]

But do you know WHY?

No Kelly....
I can only guess that a stressed, upset, frightened, angry, excited person is activating all manner of brain circuits and thus causing some lock-up or frenzy within that organ?

 

[oldbadger]

I've seen many seizures,there are different types from absence to to tonic clonic which is life threatening,sometimes strange noises from them and odd behaviour but its not a mythological creature doing it.

Sure....
But Galilean peasants thought that it was demons, or even death. It's not what you or I think but what ancient peasants thought.

And Hysteria could imitate scores of serious physical conditions, and the right person could 'cure' these conditions instantly, sometimes by just attending. I've seen it happen many times.

 

[oldbadger]

You never hear about them again because they don't need a follow up visit.

Did they get a letter to that effect?