Errors in the Quran

[FearGod]

How so? Both share the Old Testament, they speak of the same god, from the same tradition - how are they not comparable?

I mean the mistakes in the bible are fatal that even a mind as einstein can't rationaly explain it.

IOW,if the verses have a critical errors then no one can show it otherwise regardless of how smart he is.

 

[illykitty]

FearGod was telling the truth and i don't think that he used a cunning ways to justify the verses as his interpretations were rational and easily understood.

I may say the verses are the clever ones and maybe it needs a good minds to understand it.

I personally have no doubt that FearGod is honest and wasn't trying to be cunning and so on.

I guess the issue is that the same thing can be done with ANY religious text. Christian apologetics have explanations too for errors in the Bible. If you don't find them logical, it's not their fault, it's yours.

I'm not accusing either of being untrustworthy or lying or deceiving, I'm sure they believe what they say and have the best intentions (or at least I hope so), but it's not something new to someone who has studied many religions.

 

[Bunyip]

I mean the mistakes in the bible are fatal that even a mind as einstein can't rationaly explain it.

IOW,if the verses have a critical errors then no one can show it otherwise regardless of how smart he is.

Unfortunately fearofgod did not engage with my other example, which was the quran's claims about how the foetus develops - bones forming first.

As to your pointing out that fear had raised a topic about how the bible does not make sense, the irony is truly awesome.

Cheers.

 

[FearGod]

Unfortunately fearofgod did not engage with my other example, which was the quran's claims about how the foetus develops - bones forming first.

As to your pointing out that fear had raised a topic about how the bible does not make sense, the irony is truly awesome.

Cheers.

Actually this fact about fetus develpment was discussed and announced in a medical conference by medical professors if i can remember and you can search for it in Utube and the ones who agreed about it weren't even muslims.

Cheers

 

[Bunyip]

Actually this fact about fetus develpment was discussed and announced in a medical conference by medical professors if i can remember and you can search for it in Utube and the ones who agreed about it weren't even muslims.

Cheers

I've heard that myth, but never the name of the conference or of any medical professors so misinformed that they believe bones form before the flesh.

Mainly because the bones do not form before flesh, sure it is often reported that some numbers of unnamed scientists agree with a given scripture - this is a common tactic of Young Earth Creationists also, but does not change the fact that the verse is factually wrong.

 

[FearGod]

I've heard that myth, but never the name of the conference or of any medical professors so misinformed that they believe bones form before the flesh.

Mainly because the bones do not form before flesh, sure it is often reported that some numbers of unnamed scientists agree with a given scripture - this is a common tactic of Young Earth Creationists also, but does not change the fact that the verse is factually wrong.

Not a myth.

Here is a scientific source and not Islamic one.

The skeleton of the fetus begins developing bones about 13 weeks following conception. The bones gradually become harder and muscle tissue begins to develop

Reference: Bone Development During Fetal Development | LIVESTRONG.COM

 

[Bunyip]

Not a myth.

Here is a scientific source and not Islamic one.

The skeleton of the fetus begins developing bones about 13 weeks following conception. The bones gradually become harder and muscle tissue begins to develop

Reference: Bone Development During Fetal Development | LIVESTRONG.COM

Yes and if you read that article the flesh is already forming, and so the quran is wrong - the bones do not form first. At 13 weeks after conception there are other tissues already in place - as YOUR article reports. You have given a refer3nce to an article that disproves your own position.
By the way your article also states that cartilage comes before bone.

I don't understand why you would post a scientific source that argues against what you are claiming.

 

[FearGod]

Yes and if you read that article the flesh is already forming, and so the quran is wrong - the bones do not form first. At 13 weeks after conception there are other tissues already in place - as YOUR article reports. You have given a refer3nce to an article that disproves your own position.
By the way your article also states that cartilage comes before bone.

I don't understand why you would post a scientific source that argues against what you are claiming.

That is indeed a miracle,if you are in the 21th century and still ignorant about it,you just believe without making any research by yourself.


It is the time to educate yourself and to know what flesh means
Please read here

(Quran: Surah AI-Mu’minun,23:Ayat 12–14).

We (Allah) created man from a quintessence of clay. We then placed him as a nutfah (drop) in a place of settlement, firmly fixed, then We made the drop into an alaqah (leech like structure), and then We changed the alaqah into a mudghah (chewed like substance),then We made out of that mudghah, izam (skeleton,bones),then We clothed the bones with lahm (muscles,flesh) then We caused him to grow and come in being and attain the definitive (human)form. So, blessed be God, the best to create.


So if we arrange these stages chronologically we might come up with something like this

1.Nutfah amshaj (drop that is mixed) this stage covers the period from fertilization to implantation. This stage is further divided into: (present day germinal stage): Khalq, Taqdir, Harth.


2.Takhleeq (present day embryonic): this stage extends from the beginning of the 3rd week until the end of the 8th week and covers the developmental events. This stage is further divided into: Alaqah (leech-like)[1], Mudghah (somites)[2], Izam (skeleton)[3] and Laham (muscles)[4].


3.Nash”ah: (Growth) [present day Foetal stage] During this period the shaping and modelling are active,the external appearance develops in such a way that foetus becomes recognizably human.It lasts till the completion of pregnancy.It is further divided into: An-nashaa-Khalaqakha (from 9–26wks) and Al Hadana-al Rahamiya (from 26 wks to full term). This could be an apt way of classifying the various stages of human development. (3)

Please read in more details Human Embryology and the Holy Quran: An Overview

 

[ranvirk]

That is indeed a miracle,if you are in the 21th century and still ignorant about it,you just believe without making any research by yourself.


It is the time to educate yourself and to know what flesh means
Please read here

(Quran: Surah AI-Mu’minun,23:Ayat 12–14).

We (Allah) created man from a quintessence of clay. We then placed him as a nutfah (drop) in a place of settlement, firmly fixed, then We made the drop into an alaqah (leech like structure), and then We changed the alaqah into a mudghah (chewed like substance),then We made out of that mudghah, izam (skeleton,bones),then We clothed the bones with lahm (muscles,flesh) then We caused him to grow and come in being and attain the definitive (human)form. So, blessed be God, the best to create.


So if we arrange these stages chronologically we might come up with something like this

1.Nutfah amshaj (drop that is mixed) this stage covers the period from fertilization to implantation. This stage is further divided into: (present day germinal stage): Khalq, Taqdir, Harth.


2.Takhleeq (present day embryonic): this stage extends from the beginning of the 3rd week until the end of the 8th week and covers the developmental events. This stage is further divided into: Alaqah (leech-like)[1], Mudghah (somites)[2], Izam (skeleton)[3] and Laham (muscles)[4].


3.Nash”ah: (Growth) [present day Foetal stage] During this period the shaping and modelling are active,the external appearance develops in such a way that foetus becomes recognizably human.It lasts till the completion of pregnancy.It is further divided into: An-nashaa-Khalaqakha (from 9–26wks) and Al Hadana-al Rahamiya (from 26 wks to full term). This could be an apt way of classifying the various stages of human development. (3)

Please read in more details Human Embryology and the Holy Quran: An Overview

So u r saying and it seems from the verses that bones and muscles are
formed at at different times? Also have u read Aristotle words on embryology?

Also r u sure these ideas were not there at time if Mohamad, coz if they were then it can't be described as a miracle. I assume you would agree that something can't be described as a miracle if it was already know way before Mohamad copied that into Quran, agree?

Also can u please confirm that the verse was translated as such from the very
Beginning?

 

[ranvirk]

Actually this fact about fetus develpment was discussed and announced in a medical conference by medical professors if i can remember and you can search for it in Utube and the ones who agreed about it weren't even muslims.

Cheers

Please don't tell me that you are talking about Keith Moore? Plz plz plz

 

[FearGod]

So u r saying and it seems from the verses that bones and muscles are
formed at at different times? Also have u read Aristotle words on embryology?

Also r u sure these ideas were not there at time if Mohamad, coz if they were then it can't be described as a miracle. I assume you would agree that something can't be described as a miracle if it was already know way before Mohamad copied that into Quran, agree?

Also can u please confirm that the verse was translated as such from the very
Beginning?

If an educated person in the 21th century is saying the flesh started before bones,then you are expecting it to be known thousands of years ago.

The translation is correct 100%.

 

[FearGod]

Please don't tell me that you are talking about Keith Moore? Plz plz plz

I don't know who announced it but the statement was approved in a medical conference which means members have studied the statement very well before being announced for the media.

 

[ranvirk]

If an educated person in the 21th century is saying the flesh started before bones,then you are expecting it to be known thousands of years ago.

The translation is correct 100%.

But that's what we are saying, flesh and bones don't form seperately and u just demonstrated that Quran is wrong...

 

[FearGod]

But that's what we are saying, flesh and bones don't form seperately and u just demonstrated that Quran is wrong...

And thats gives me more confidence of how atheists used to reject reality and scientific facts for the purpose of distorting religion.

I read many medical topics which has nothing to do with Islam and the verse exactly correct in both the appearance and the informations given,but the atheists has to find 2 silly reasons,the first one to look out if people knew it before thousands of years ago and if not then to reject the fact and to present as wrong statement in scientific means.

 

[ranvirk]

Actually this fact about fetus develpment was discussed and announced in a medical conference by medical professors if i can remember and you can search for it in Utube and the ones who agreed about it weren't even muslims.

Cheers

Do u also mind sharing the link and what was actually mentioned and how it related to Quran

 

[ranvirk]

And thats gives me more confidence of how atheists used to reject reality and scientific facts for the purpose of distorting religion.

I read many medical topics which has nothing to do with Islam and the verse exactly correct in both the appearance and the informations given,but the atheists has to find 2 silly reasons,the first one to look out if people knew it before thousands of years ago and if not then to reject the fact and to present as wrong statement in scientific means.

It's funny, so scientific community saying that bones and flesh form separately?

I strongly advise you to start reading medical topics from credible sources and not Islamic websites....

Bones and flesh form simultaneously . Period.

And that clearly demonstrate Quran is wrong as it has copied from Aristotle views as he had limited understanding of the embryology
Thanks for proving the point though..

 

[Bunyip]

That is indeed a miracle,if you are in the 21th century and still ignorant about it,you just believe without making any research by yourself.


It is the time to educate yourself and to know what flesh means
Please read here

(Quran: Surah AI-Mu’minun,23:Ayat 12–14).

We (Allah) created man from a quintessence of clay. We then placed him as a nutfah (drop) in a place of settlement, firmly fixed, then We made the drop into an alaqah (leech like structure), and then We changed the alaqah into a mudghah (chewed like substance),then We made out of that mudghah, izam (skeleton,bones),then We clothed the bones with lahm (muscles,flesh) then We caused him to grow and come in being and attain the definitive (human)form. So, blessed be God, the best to create.


So if we arrange these stages chronologically we might come up with something like this

1.Nutfah amshaj (drop that is mixed) this stage covers the period from fertilization to implantation. This stage is further divided into: (present day germinal stage): Khalq, Taqdir, Harth.


2.Takhleeq (present day embryonic): this stage extends from the beginning of the 3rd week until the end of the 8th week and covers the developmental events. This stage is further divided into: Alaqah (leech-like)[1], Mudghah (somites)[2], Izam (skeleton)[3] and Laham (muscles)[4].


3.Nash”ah: (Growth) [present day Foetal stage] During this period the shaping and modelling are active,the external appearance develops in such a way that foetus becomes recognizably human.It lasts till the completion of pregnancy.It is further divided into: An-nashaa-Khalaqakha (from 9–26wks) and Al Hadana-al Rahamiya (from 26 wks to full term). This could be an apt way of classifying the various stages of human development. (3)

Please read in more details Human Embryology and the Holy Quran: An Overview

Buddy, you are calling me ignorant - but it is you who gave a reference to an article that disproved your own position.

Flesh and bone form at the same time, and the bones form much more slowly. The quran is wrong. Refering to some imaginary medical conference that never happened and unnamed scientists is useless.
What medical conference? What embryologist would be so deluded as to think that the bones form first?

You complain that atheists refuse to see, and yet posted a reference that opposes your own view imagining that it supported it.

 

[FearGod]

Buddy, you are calling me ignorant - but it is you who gave a reference to an article that disproved your own position.

Flesh and bone form at the same time, and the bones form much more slowly. The quran is wrong. Refering to some imaginary medical conference that never happened and unnamed scientists is useless.
What medical conference? What embryologist would be so deluded as to think that the bones form first?

You complain that atheists refuse to see, and yet posted a reference that opposes your own view imagining that it supported it.

So you think that you are correct and all professors and specialists who met in the conference were ignorant.

That is confirmation bias at best or outright ignorance.

 

[Bunyip]

So you think that you are correct and all professors and specialists who met in the conference were ignorant.

That is confirmation bias at best or outright ignorance.

You mean the unnamed conference that occured at some unestablished time and was attended by unidentified specialists whose reactions have not been referenced?

Referring to a conference that you have yet to identify and claiming that SOME of the nameless and unidentified attendees thought that the quran was correct about some things is just silly.

Why not start by naming the conference?

You accuse me of a confirmation bias, and yet have given no actual data for me to be biased about.

The ignorance is on your part - the quran is wrong, the bones do not form first. Look up any book on embryology.

 

[FearGod]

You mean the unnamed conference that occured at some unestablished time and was attended by unidentified specialists whose reactions have not been referenced?

Referring to a conference that you have yet to identify and claiming that SOME of the nameless and unidentified attendees thought that the quran was correct about some things is just silly.

Why not start by naming the conference?

You accuse me of a confirmation bias, and yet have given no actual data for me to be biased about.

The ignorance is on your part - the quran is wrong, the bones do not form first. Look up any book on embryology.

Those who met in the conference were among the elites of specialists and the purpose of the meeting was to study some verses in the quran and to find out if there is a scientific errors in it.

Actually those who met weren't Muslims and their decision has to be honored for their good knowledge in the field of science.

God said that those who don't want to believe won't believe whatever signs given to them.

Scientists On The Qur'an