-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Errors in the Quran
- Thread starter Truthisnotyourenemy
- Start date
Truthisnotyourenemy
Member
A day means a day as we know it unless specified otherwise.
An unspecified period is meaningless, regardless it was never understood this way.
Neither by early Muslims nor scholars.
But as I explained before and which you ignored there are signs which will tell the unbelievers the last hour has begun, as when the Gog and Magog tribe are released from the barrier:
021.097
YUSUFALI: Then will the true promise draw nigh (of fulfilment): then behold! the eyes of the Unbelievers will fixedly stare in horror: "Ah! Woe to us! we were indeed heedless of this; nay, we truly did wrong!"
Unbelievers are not aware of these people having being released yet and nor are they starring in horror saying 'we did wrong'. When the final hour begins it will be clear to to the unbeliever and Muslims the final hour has begun.
Therefore the final hour hasn't started as you bizarrely claim and the barrier remains.
Also in the next verse the Koran claims these people who say this (unbelievers) are fuel for hell and therefore it's too late for them as the final hour has begun and they have seen the evidence for this.
Yet people are reverting to Islam right now, which again refutes your claims.
So your claims that the final hour and judgement day actually mean something else, is not only an assumption based with no evidence but is also refuted by the Koran.
Therefore, you have no basis to claim the iron wall no longer exists.
Last edited:
Truthisnotyourenemy
Member
D/Post
Truthisnotyourenemy
Member
So far we have seen how the Koran is in agreement with many popular myths ancient people held.
People believed in a canopy/roof sky that was being held up and the Koran agrees and claims it's a sign of allahs existence.
It also agrees with the visible seven heavens myth, the earth/sky separation myth as well as the primordial ocean creation myth.
Which is just what you would expect from a book written by a human living back when the Koran was revealed.
But there is more.
A commonly held view back then was that the sun travelled around the earth, rather than the earth orbiting around the sun.
This was because ancient people believed in a geocentric model of the solar system. We now know that this was an incorrect understanding of the solar system and that the the Sun is the centre of the universe, and the planets orbit around it. This is known as the heliocentric model.
So does the Koran repeat another popular myth?
According to the Koran the suns course is visible:
031.029
PICKTHAL: Hast thou not seen how Allah causeth the night to pass into the day and causeth the day to pass into the night, and hath subdued the sun and the moon (to do their work), each running unto an appointed term; and that Allah is Informed of what ye do?
These were all visible phenomena to the people of the 7th century, they could 'see' the night turn into day and vise versa, they could see the sun and the moon run their courses around the earth.
013.002
Allah is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that you see, and He is firm in power and He made the sun and the moon subservient (to you); each one pursues its course to an appointed time; He regulates the affair, making clear the signs that you may be certain of meeting your Lord.
Again, the above verse claims the course the sun(and moon) take, are clear signs of Allahs existence. Once again confirming a geocentric solar system to its revealed audience.
36:37/38/39
PICKTHAL:A token unto them is night. We strip it of the day, and lo! they are in darkness. And the sun runneth on unto a resting-place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise. And for the moon We have appointed mansions till she return like an old shrivelled palm-leaf.
The above verse explains that as night appears, earth becomes dark and the sun runs to its resting place and completes its course. Which again confirms the suns 'course' is related to day/night and confirms a geocentric understanding people held back then.
Although no further clarification is needed Mohammed kindly explains the error in his words:
Book 001, Number 0297:
It is narrated on the authority of Abu Dharr that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) one day said: Do you know where the sun goes? They replied: Allah and His Apostle know best. He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Verily it (the sun) glides till it reaches its resting place under the Throne.....
So Mohammed tells us that at sunset, the sun runs to its resting place and completes its daily course and once again and confirms the errors in the Koran.
People believed in a canopy/roof sky that was being held up and the Koran agrees and claims it's a sign of allahs existence.
It also agrees with the visible seven heavens myth, the earth/sky separation myth as well as the primordial ocean creation myth.
Which is just what you would expect from a book written by a human living back when the Koran was revealed.
But there is more.
A commonly held view back then was that the sun travelled around the earth, rather than the earth orbiting around the sun.
This was because ancient people believed in a geocentric model of the solar system. We now know that this was an incorrect understanding of the solar system and that the the Sun is the centre of the universe, and the planets orbit around it. This is known as the heliocentric model.
So does the Koran repeat another popular myth?
According to the Koran the suns course is visible:
031.029
PICKTHAL: Hast thou not seen how Allah causeth the night to pass into the day and causeth the day to pass into the night, and hath subdued the sun and the moon (to do their work), each running unto an appointed term; and that Allah is Informed of what ye do?
These were all visible phenomena to the people of the 7th century, they could 'see' the night turn into day and vise versa, they could see the sun and the moon run their courses around the earth.
013.002
Allah is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that you see, and He is firm in power and He made the sun and the moon subservient (to you); each one pursues its course to an appointed time; He regulates the affair, making clear the signs that you may be certain of meeting your Lord.
Again, the above verse claims the course the sun(and moon) take, are clear signs of Allahs existence. Once again confirming a geocentric solar system to its revealed audience.
36:37/38/39
PICKTHAL:A token unto them is night. We strip it of the day, and lo! they are in darkness. And the sun runneth on unto a resting-place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise. And for the moon We have appointed mansions till she return like an old shrivelled palm-leaf.
The above verse explains that as night appears, earth becomes dark and the sun runs to its resting place and completes its course. Which again confirms the suns 'course' is related to day/night and confirms a geocentric understanding people held back then.
Although no further clarification is needed Mohammed kindly explains the error in his words:
Book 001, Number 0297:
It is narrated on the authority of Abu Dharr that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) one day said: Do you know where the sun goes? They replied: Allah and His Apostle know best. He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Verily it (the sun) glides till it reaches its resting place under the Throne.....
So Mohammed tells us that at sunset, the sun runs to its resting place and completes its daily course and once again and confirms the errors in the Koran.
Truthisnotyourenemy
Member
During the time the Koran was revealed people believed that shooting stars (meteorites) were actual stars falling out of the sky.
We now know that a shooting star is in fact only a rock, which ignites into a bright flame when it enters the Earth's atmosphere.
Yet to primitive man this would not of been so obvious which is why they thought a shooting star was literally a star falling, hence the term shooting star.
The link below explains this myth:
When they saw a streak of light, they thought a star was falling out of the sky
http://www.britannica.com/bps/additionalcontent/18/32823433/Shooting-Stars
Does the Koran repeat this myth too?
What are stars created for:
037.006/037.007
YUSUFALI: We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars,- (For beauty) and for guard against all obstinate rebellious evil spirits,
According to the Koran stars are created for their beauty and as a guard against evil spirits.
But how are they used to guard the heavens?
YUSUFALI: And we have, (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps, and We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire
According to the Koran stars are shot as missiles at thie evil spirits. Clearly the author of the Koran is reinforcing the myth of the shooting star.
This is confirmed by Bukhari:
The lowest heaven has lamps [stars], and ‘We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.’" Sura 67:5
"The creation of these stars is for three purposes, i.e. as decoration of the sky, as missiles to hit the devils, and as signs to guide travellers. So, if anybody tries to find a different interpretation, he is mistaken and just wastes his efforts..." Bukhari vol.4 book 54 ch.3
Shihab the word used by the Koran to describe the shooting star is an ancient Arabic word used even in the time before Islam. It was used to literally
describe a star falling from the sky in accordance with the myth.
We now know that a shooting star is in fact only a rock, which ignites into a bright flame when it enters the Earth's atmosphere.
Yet to primitive man this would not of been so obvious which is why they thought a shooting star was literally a star falling, hence the term shooting star.
The link below explains this myth:
When they saw a streak of light, they thought a star was falling out of the sky
http://www.britannica.com/bps/additionalcontent/18/32823433/Shooting-Stars
Does the Koran repeat this myth too?
What are stars created for:
037.006/037.007
YUSUFALI: We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars,- (For beauty) and for guard against all obstinate rebellious evil spirits,
According to the Koran stars are created for their beauty and as a guard against evil spirits.
But how are they used to guard the heavens?
YUSUFALI: And we have, (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps, and We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire
According to the Koran stars are shot as missiles at thie evil spirits. Clearly the author of the Koran is reinforcing the myth of the shooting star.
This is confirmed by Bukhari:
The lowest heaven has lamps [stars], and ‘We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.’" Sura 67:5
"The creation of these stars is for three purposes, i.e. as decoration of the sky, as missiles to hit the devils, and as signs to guide travellers. So, if anybody tries to find a different interpretation, he is mistaken and just wastes his efforts..." Bukhari vol.4 book 54 ch.3
Shihab the word used by the Koran to describe the shooting star is an ancient Arabic word used even in the time before Islam. It was used to literally
describe a star falling from the sky in accordance with the myth.
Last edited:
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
I have explained to you that the quran never point to the sky as a solid roof but you didn't want to understand and you just keep on the work of copying and pasting blindly and bla bla bla, so discussing those issues with you is useless and a waste of time.
I have asked you to inform me the meaning of this word
, but you didn't know and you don't even want to know.
Now you are discussing a verse which never mentioned the stars but you just follow the wrong interpretation which of course you picked it up for your job of copying and pasting.
Here is the word for stars in Arabic which is not the same as in the verse of discussion.
I have asked you to inform me the meaning of this word
Now you are discussing a verse which never mentioned the stars but you just follow the wrong interpretation which of course you picked it up for your job of copying and pasting.
Here is the word for stars in Arabic which is not the same as in the verse of discussion.
Truthisnotyourenemy
Member
I have explained to you that the quran never point to the sky as a solid roof but you didn't want to understand and you just keep on the work of copying and pasting blindly and bla bla bla, so discussing those issues with you is useless and a waste of time.
I have asked you to inform me the meaning of this word, but you didn't know and you don't even want to know.
Now you are discussing a verse which never mentioned the stars but you just follow the wrong interpretation which of course you picked it up for your job of copying and pasting.
Here is the word for stars in Arabic which is not the same as in the verse of discussion.
I don't need to know what the word means. The scholars and early muslims knew best, why do I need to know it. Allah makes clear the signs and they understood it.
Certain words have different meanings now compared to what they meant back then, as it is with different languages. All you can do is hide behind meaning of certain words as though people back then never knew what the Koran was talking about which is ridiculous to say the least and it contradicts the Koran as it claims it makes the signs clear.
I'm not copying and pasting blindly, I'm providing evidence from those best qualified and they are confirming the myths people believed back then, hence they were signs they understood. Simple really.
Anyhow what verse are you talking about regarding stars?
The word in 37.06 can mean stars or planets.
The word in 67.05 means shooting star.
Back then people thought shooting stars were actually stars falling from the sky.
Koran says stars are a used as a defense against the jinns then says shooting stars chase them. Very simple to understand, that's why Bukhari an expert in ancient Arabic unlike yourself claimed:
The creation of these stars is for three purposes, i.e. as decoration of the sky, as missiles to hit the devils, and as signs to guide travellers. So, if anybody tries to find a different interpretation, he is mistaken and just wastes his efforts..." Bukhari vol.4 book 54 ch.3
Last edited:
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
The quran used the known arabic word for star which is as singular
Check for the word "star" by your self which is similar to the one above,here is few examples
6:97
7:54
16:12
Truthisnotyourenemy
Member
The quran used the known arabic word for star which is as singularand as plural
Check for the word "star" by your self which is similar to the one above,here is few examples
6:97
7:54
16:12
I've done a search:
The word in 37.06 can mean stars or planets depending on context.
The word in 67.05 means shooting star.
So there may be other words for star in the Koran, so what.
If the experts in ancient Arabic claim the relevant verse is talking about stars then me doing some research on google isn't going to mean much.
It's like trying to correct a rocket scientist on his knowledge regarding aerospace engineering because of what I read on the internet.
I'm not that foolish.
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
Truthisnotyourenemy
Member
According to Ibn Abbas Mohammeds cousin I believe:
Ibn Abbas has this
(And verily We have beatified the world's heaven) the first heaven (with lamps) with stars, (and We have made them) i.e. the stars (missiles for the devils) such that some of them become bewitched, some are killed while others are burnt, (and for them) for the devils (We have prepared) in the Hereafter (the doom of flame.
Last edited:
Truthisnotyourenemy
Member
Ha ha, you've certainly not answered the query regarding the solid sky in the Koran. It's merely wishful thinking on your behalf.
The question I asked in my initial post still hasn't been answered by you.
All you've responded with is logical fallacies, mostly wishful thinking.
Answer if you can:
02.22: PICKTHAL: Who hath appointed the earth a resting-place for you, and the sky a canopy;
021.032
PICKTHAL: And we have made the sky a roof withheld (from them). Yet they turn away from its portents.
So what canopy/roof sky was a sign to people who already believed in a solid canopy sky?
Last edited:
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
Brother FearGod,
Can I an explanation to 37:01-10? I can't understand any of the tafsir I find on this. I feel I can infer an explanation to the audience about the relationship between human, Shaitan, angels and God. Can you offer anything?
Thanks.
Hi Brother Breathe.
You are right,their tafsirs are kind of fairy ones.
The verses are pointing to the asteroids and described also as kind of planets
37:01-10
وَالصَّافَّاتِ صَفًّا
They are in rows (The Asteroids belt,i guess)
فَالزَّاجِرَاتِ زَجْرًا
And they are launched
فَالتَّالِيَاتِ ذِكْرًا
The following is a reminder
إِنَّ إِلَهَكُمْ لَوَاحِدٌ
Your God is one
رَبُّ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضِ وَمَا بَيْنَهُمَا وَرَبُّ الْمَشَارِقِ
Lord of Heaven and Earth and whatever lies between them,and Lord of the Eastern parts!
إِنَّا زَيَّنَّا السَّمَاء الدُّنْيَا بِزِينَةٍ الْكَوَاكِبِ
We have adorned the lowest heaven with adorning planets.(the asteroids)
وَحِفْظًا مِّن كُلِّ شَيْطَانٍ مَّارِدٍ
a safeguard against every stubborn devil.(nations)
لا يَسَّمَّعُونَ إِلَى الْمَلإِ الأَعْلَى وَيُقْذَفُونَ مِن كُلِّ جَانِبٍ
They do not listen to the command up high; and they are bombarded from every side.
دُحُورًا وَلَهُمْ عَذَابٌ وَاصِبٌ
They will flee with fear and ignominy , and will have prolonged torment(due to fear prior to death)
إِلاَّ مَنْ خَطِفَ الْخَطْفَةَ فَأَتْبَعَهُ شِهَابٌ ثَاقِبٌ
They are in rows (The Asteroids belt,i guess)
فَالزَّاجِرَاتِ زَجْرًا
And they are launched
فَالتَّالِيَاتِ ذِكْرًا
The following is a reminder
إِنَّ إِلَهَكُمْ لَوَاحِدٌ
Your God is one
رَبُّ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضِ وَمَا بَيْنَهُمَا وَرَبُّ الْمَشَارِقِ
Lord of Heaven and Earth and whatever lies between them,and Lord of the Eastern parts!
إِنَّا زَيَّنَّا السَّمَاء الدُّنْيَا بِزِينَةٍ الْكَوَاكِبِ
We have adorned the lowest heaven with adorning planets.(the asteroids)
وَحِفْظًا مِّن كُلِّ شَيْطَانٍ مَّارِدٍ
a safeguard against every stubborn devil.(nations)
لا يَسَّمَّعُونَ إِلَى الْمَلإِ الأَعْلَى وَيُقْذَفُونَ مِن كُلِّ جَانِبٍ
They do not listen to the command up high; and they are bombarded from every side.
دُحُورًا وَلَهُمْ عَذَابٌ وَاصِبٌ
They will flee with fear and ignominy , and will have prolonged torment(due to fear prior to death)
إِلاَّ مَنْ خَطِفَ الْخَطْفَةَ فَأَتْبَعَهُ شِهَابٌ ثَاقِبٌ
Except the ones who will have the sudden direct strike by one asteroid (lucky ones )
[youtube]W2NNVAaYR1M[/youtube]
Meteor explodes in Russian with terrible sound.new video - YouTube
[youtube]EYsNY0LTUVw[/youtube]
RUSSIA WARNS: ASTEROID IMPACT in Atlantic Ocean - YouTube
)[youtube]W2NNVAaYR1M[/youtube]
Meteor explodes in Russian with terrible sound.new video - YouTube
[youtube]EYsNY0LTUVw[/youtube]
RUSSIA WARNS: ASTEROID IMPACT in Atlantic Ocean - YouTube
Last edited:
Truthisnotyourenemy
Member
As I explained to you the ancient scholars including Mohammeds cousin and companion and the vast majority of translation say verse 37.6 is talking about stars opposed to planets.
This is because verse 37.6 is describing the same object as in 67.05.
These lamps adorn the lowest heaven and are missiles for the devils.
037.006/037.007
YUSUFALI: We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars,- (For beauty) and for guard against all obstinate rebellious evil spirits,
067.005
YUSUFALI: And we have, (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps, and We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.
There were only 5 planets people could see back then with the naked eye.
So it doesn't make sense to say five bright dots in the sky adorned and beautified the lower heaven. Therefore, these verses are clearly describing the many stars in the sky. Plus planets were never considered as missiles for the devils but shooting stars were.
This is because verse 37.6 is describing the same object as in 67.05.
These lamps adorn the lowest heaven and are missiles for the devils.
037.006/037.007
YUSUFALI: We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars,- (For beauty) and for guard against all obstinate rebellious evil spirits,
067.005
YUSUFALI: And we have, (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps, and We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.
There were only 5 planets people could see back then with the naked eye.
So it doesn't make sense to say five bright dots in the sky adorned and beautified the lower heaven. Therefore, these verses are clearly describing the many stars in the sky. Plus planets were never considered as missiles for the devils but shooting stars were.
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
I am done.
I proved it to you with evidence that the word star in Arabic and in the quran wasn't mentioned in those verses,so why i have to believe otherwise.
I'll agree with you if in a case that the quran says stars but it didn't and hence i have nothing more to offer for you.
Truthisnotyourenemy
Member
Lol, the early muslims say stars, the majority of translators say stars.
But you disagree because of google translator with it's modern understanding of the word.
It is silly and dishonest of you to claim the 5 dots in the sky of the planets beautify and adorn the sky!
You clearly don't understand classical arabic like the experts!
Last edited:
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
Lol, the early muslims say stars, the majority of translators say stars.
But you disagree because of google translator with it's modern understanding of the word.
It is silly and dishonest of you to claim the 5 dots in the sky of the planets beautify and adorn the sky!
You clearly don't understand classical arabic like the experts!
:areyoucra
I already showed to you what the classical word for stars in the quran itself and i proved it to you that the verses wasn't talking about the stars but the asteroids.
What i have to do else ?
It is easy job, you can do it yourself,just search for the word star in any searchable site for the verses and check the words in arabic and compare it to verse 67:5
Truthisnotyourenemy
Member
I did a search and the word in question can mean stars and planets.
Those who know best say it means stars in this context.
How do five small dots in the whole of the sky beautify and and adorn it, does this make sense to you?
Why did those who spoke classical Arabic translate it as stars in this context?
Why do the majority of translators translate it as stars?
Is it because they didn't use google translator.
What about Bukhari would he have made this mistake if could've used google translator many centuries ago:
"The creation of these stars is for three purposes, i.e. as decoration of the sky, as missiles to hit the devils, and as signs to guide travellers. So, if anybody tries to find a different interpretation, he is mistaken and just wastes his efforts..." Bukhari vol.4 book 54 ch.3
Clearly Bukhari who knew classical Arabic better than a google translator and you ever will and he makes it clear. These are stars which beautify the sky, help the travellers and are missiles for the devils. This is obviously not referring to planets.
Do you think Bukhari needed google translator to understand the Koran?
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
I did a search and the word in question can mean stars and planets.
Those who know best say it means stars in this context.
How do five small dots in the whole of the sky beautify and and adorn it, does this make sense to you?
Why did those who spoke classical Arabic translate it as stars in this context?
Why do the majority of translators translate it as stars?
Is it because they didn't use google translator.
What about Bukhari would he have made this mistake if could've used google translator many centuries ago:
"The creation of these stars is for three purposes, i.e. as decoration of the sky, as missiles to hit the devils, and as signs to guide travellers. So, if anybody tries to find a different interpretation, he is mistaken and just wastes his efforts..." Bukhari vol.4 book 54 ch.3
Clearly Bukhari who knew classical Arabic better than a google translator and you ever will and he makes it clear. These are stars which beautify the sky, help the travellers and are missiles for the devils. This is obviously not referring to planets.
Do you think Bukhari needed google translator to understand the Koran?
No need to use any translators because the words of concern is mentioned in the quran but you have difficulty in understanding because arabic language is very hard for you to understand and hence i asked you just to compare the image of the word star which mentioned in the quran and for the other word for the astroid which looks completely different,here i'll explain again
Note : the asteroids aren't used for guiding travelers and hence you can see the actual word for star used for the guidance.
(16:16) And landmarks. And by the stars they are [also] guided.
So the word star in the quran the same as you can see in google which means star,but the arabic word which meant for the asteroids is not the same word used for star in the quran and google translator as well.