Eternity Alone

[InChrist]

As I've stated previously I believe after this lifetime on earth our soul will be paired with another body, another personality, another situational life where we will receive our rewards and pay our debts thus far accumulated.

In response to the people who are living in hell created by others, they can still find bits of heaven to sustain them and strengthen them. Heaven is love. Think of the White Hats that dig the wounded and dead out of the rubble. Think of the doctors and nurses, the aid truck providers, the mothers and fathers, grandparents and neighbors who provide comfort and hope. There is definitely heaven found if you're seeking the REAL heaven and not some unprovable Utopia of mythology.

As Jesus said, the Kingdom is in our midst. . . if you have eyes to see and ears to hear.

Yes, the scriptures do indicate we reap what we sow, also…
And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment ( Hebrews 9:27).


I didn’t place my trust in Jesus Christ as my Savior until I was in my thirties. Up until I did, I never thought I needed saving from anything, much less a Savior. Although, I was raised in the Catholic Church, I left it before I was twenty. It just seemed too religious, ritualistic, and impractical for my life. I was interested in spirituality, though. But the Bible seemed very dry and confused, so I checked out various other spiritual avenues. Although, one time in the middle of a stressful situation I randomly opened the Bible and immediately saw a passage which was the exact answer I needed at the time. I followed the advice and it worked. But not soon after I forgot about the Bible again for several years.

I had friends who were involved in the different degrees of occultism. Others who definitely believed in karma and reincarnation, following more the beliefs of Eastern spirituality. Some other friends held gatherings at their home to channel and connect with spirit entities. I was quite swaying for a few years by the idea of positive thinking and/or mindfulness or controlling my life with the power of thoughts. At one point I met some Mormons and so experienced what I now consider to be pseudo-Christian beliefs. Yet, for a time I did kind of buy into the idea that humans can progress into godhood.
Although, I knew about characters such as the devil or demons, I never literally thought much about these being real in any sense…until I found out they were.

I don’t think I would have understood my need for a Savior had I not experienced some dark and overpowering encounters with demonic entities and come to understand the depth of deception they are capable of. I truly was blind and a pawn being tossed around by every wind of doctrine by these spiritual deceivers. Previously, I had no idea or understanding of what really goes on in the spiritual realm. The interesting thing was that I thought I was pretty smart and a good person until I saw my life and everything else in the revealing light of Jesus and His overwhelming, incredible love. All I can do now and have done for years since the day He saved me is give thanks for such Love and Freedom, not only for the present, but forever.

 

[Spice]

Yes, the scriptures do indicate we reap what we sow, also…
And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment ( Hebrews 9:27).

Agreed. You and I, and everyone, will die "once" and go to judgement, IMO. There our souls will be weighed and measured for determination of heavenly perfection. Jesus, IMO, was the first to be found worthy. And IMO, it wasn't because he was born sinless of a virgin, but because he conquered humanity and the world as a man.

Because Jesus found The Way, and taught it so it would be spread throughout the world, whether in his "voice" or the voice of other Messengers, and because Jesus showed us how to die in dignity and faith without ever doubting the Father's love, he was resurrected for the final ascent home, never to return.

Because of Jesus, the Father has been reconciled to the world and we will be given whatever time we need to find and travel The Way in the footsteps of Christ. Others also teach The Way, and it's even written on our hearts if we search.

Jesus, IMO, did not die for our sins to be wiped clean. We are responsible for ourselves. Jesus died, IMO, to show the Father that humankind is worth His patience. They need not lie in Sheol. They're worthy to be born again.

This my heretical take on the Christian story. This follows my perspective of the Abrahamic God and scriptures. I still maintain its a story to bring comfort, hope, and direction for the human experience.

The traditional interpretation of Christianity that you adhere to always had me at a lost, though I accepted it all and began my studies at a young age, fully involved with traditional, liberal, mainstream Christianity. It simply did not make sense. I went at different angles with it for 20 years, including giving evangelical conservatism a go. Then I just set it aside with a big ole WHATEVER!

My main issue was why was it such a marveleous wonder for Jesus to have lived a perfect life if he was God? Of course God can live a perfect life. What kind of hope does that give us? We are imperfect because we are not gods.

Then, if Jesus freed us from our sins, why did he say we still would have to pay every penny? If he paid the ransom, why did he say sacrifices were not necessary?

The whole rapture, Armageddon, second coming from the clouds, anti-Christ always sounded like something akin to Medusa, Pegasus, and company.

Certain bits and pieces stayed with me. Primarily the parables, and the encounters with the woman at the well and the centurion. I eventually took a look at the whole story with fresh eyes. I looked beyond the Protestant canon. I looked beyond Christianity, itself. I found MY niche of comfort, hope, and guidance. And it has brought me amazing peace and contentment.

I don't call myself a Christian as it just upsets too many folks. LOL Plus I have incorporated bits and pieces from other religions that fit perfectly into my worldview of religion, and I'm always open to hearing what works for others, so my religion is a moving one. Though I guess the meat and potatoes will always be Christianity -- if and when I'm allowed to use the term.

My apologies for running on . . .

Namaste

 

[InChrist]

Agreed. You and I, and everyone, will die "once" and go to judgement, IMO. There our souls will be weighed and measured for determination of heavenly perfection. Jesus, IMO, was the first to be found worthy. And IMO, it wasn't because he was born sinless of a virgin, but because he conquered humanity and the world as a man.

Because Jesus found The Way, and taught it so it would be spread throughout the world, whether in his "voice" or the voice of other Messengers, and because Jesus showed us how to die in dignity and faith without ever doubting the Father's love, he was resurrected for the final ascent home, never to return.

Because of Jesus, the Father has been reconciled to the world and we will be given whatever time we need to find and travel The Way in the footsteps of Christ. Others also teach The Way, and it's even written on our hearts if we search.

Jesus, IMO, did not die for our sins to be wiped clean. We are responsible for ourselves. Jesus died, IMO, to show the Father that humankind is worth His patience. They need not lie in Sheol. They're worthy to be born again.

This my heretical take on the Christian story. This follows my perspective of the Abrahamic God and scriptures. I still maintain its a story to bring comfort, hope, and direction for the human experience.

The traditional interpretation of Christianity that you adhere to always had me at a lost, though I accepted it all and began my studies at a young age, fully involved with traditional, liberal, mainstream Christianity. It simply did not make sense. I went at different angles with it for 20 years, including giving evangelical conservatism a go. Then I just set it aside with a big ole WHATEVER!

My main issue was why was it such a marveleous wonder for Jesus to have lived a perfect life if he was God? Of course God can live a perfect life. What kind of hope does that give us? We are imperfect because we are not gods.

Then, if Jesus freed us from our sins, why did he say we still would have to pay every penny? If he paid the ransom, why did he say sacrifices were not necessary?

The whole rapture, Armageddon, second coming from the clouds, anti-Christ always sounded like something akin to Medusa, Pegasus, and company.

Certain bits and pieces stayed with me. Primarily the parables, and the encounters with the woman at the well and the centurion. I eventually took a look at the whole story with fresh eyes. I looked beyond the Protestant canon. I looked beyond Christianity, itself. I found MY niche of comfort, hope, and guidance. And it has brought me amazing peace and contentment.

I don't call myself a Christian as it just upsets too many folks. LOL Plus I have incorporated bits and pieces from other religions that fit perfectly into my worldview of religion, and I'm always open to hearing what works for others, so my religion is a moving one. Though I guess the meat and potatoes will always be Christianity -- if and when I'm allowed to use the term.

My apologies for running on . . .

Namaste

I appreciate you sharing your experience and thoughts. There’s a little too much for me to respond to right now, but I have a couple thoughts/question. I believe Jesus paid for all the sins of the world and each person is freed from the penalty of sin when they personally trust Jesus. Where do you get the idea that Jesus said we have to pay every penny?

I think the point of Jesus living a perfect, sinless life was for our sake. As you said, because we are not God, we couldn’t. Yet, Jesus being God who became human could. I see two important aspects of this, 1) God became flesh and therefore empathizes and understands the human condition personally
and
2) Jesus lived a perfect life to appropriate His perfection and goodness to those who trust Him, demonstrating His great personal love.

 

[Spice]

I appreciate you sharing your experience and thoughts. There’s a little too much for me to respond to right now, but I have a couple thoughts/question. I believe Jesus paid for all the sins of the world and each person is freed from the penalty of sin when they personally trust Jesus. Where do you get the idea that Jesus said we have to pay every penny?

I think the point of Jesus living a perfect, sinless life was for our sake. As you said, because we are not God, we couldn’t. Yet, Jesus being God who became human could. I see two important aspects of this, 1) God became flesh and therefore empathizes and understands the human condition personally
and
2) Jesus lived a perfect life to appropriate His perfection and goodness to those who trust Him, demonstrating His great personal love.

I fully understand your perspective, I just don't agree with that discernment of scriptures.

Matthew 5:21-27 is Jesus's analogy on liability to judgement.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Agreed. You and I, and everyone, will die "once" and go to judgement, IMO. There our souls will be weighed and measured for determination of heavenly perfection.

In my opinion, the Bible's depictions of the afterlife are inaccurate and, dare I say, quite misleading. And I base my opinion on 45 years of personal experience as a spirit medium and 17 years as a seasoned paranormal investigator. Given everything I've experienced throughout my life, I believe it would be intellectually dishonest of me to accept the Bible's various accounts of the afterlife as absolute truth. In fact, there's no doubt in my mind that these depictions are inaccurate. I don't want to distract your conversation with InChrist, so rather than writing another lengthy explanation of my beliefs, I'll end my response with some links to past posts that clarify what I believe and why. In addition to my prior posts (#35 and #38) in this thread, I'd also like to include the following posts, in which I further outline several Bible verses describing different scenarios of the afterlife. Of course, this is what I believe.

Post 1: Where are the Dead?

Post 2: Where are the Dead?

 

[Spice]

In my opinion, the Bible's depictions of the afterlife are inaccurate and, dare I say, quite misleading. And I base my opinion on 45 years of personal experience as a spirit medium and 17 years as a seasoned paranormal investigator. Given everything I've experienced throughout my life, I believe it would be intellectually dishonest of me to accept the Bible's various accounts of the afterlife as absolute truth. In fact, there's no doubt in my mind that these depictions are inaccurate. I don't want to distract your conversation with InChrist, so rather than writing another lengthy explanation of my beliefs, I'll end my response with some links to past posts that clarify what I believe and why. In addition to my prior posts (#35 and #38) in this thread, I'd also like to include the following posts, in which I further outline several Bible verses describing different scenarios of the afterlife. Of course, this is what I believe.

Post 1: Where are the Dead?

Post 2: Where are the Dead?

But consider, as we don't know but can only join the ancients in contemplation and speculation in seeking comfort and hope, so consider that both "soul sleep" and reincarnation are accurate.

Just consider: Jesus was the first Adam who, annointed by God, Christ chosen, went on the journey of regaining Paradise. His mission: to find The Way for humankind after God's promise to Noah and seeing humankind was still not redeemed.

His first reincarnation: Melchizedek, by whom Abraham was found and so began the story of redemption.

Consider, from the time of Noah until Jesus succeeded in conquering the world and dying an honorable and faithful death in perfected humanity, all souls were held asleep in Sheol. But upon Jesus's completion of The Way, as stated in your previous post, he broke free these soul sleepers to arise and be judged and reenter the living so that they might find The Way for themselves.

Elijah, who did not die an earthly life, but was taken up without death, did die in the incarnation of John the Baptist. When Jesus tore down the veil of eternal sleep, (Matthew 27:51-53 "Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.") perhaps the spirit of Elijah/JtB was the first to join Jesus in the heavenly realm perfected. Jesus being "the firstborn of the dead."

This is a little more on how I view the Christian narrative of the Bible. The "freedom" that Jesus brought to mankind was not freedom of sin, we are responsible fir ourselves, but freedom of eternal soul sleep with no possibility of redemption. Jesus Christ found The Way we all can be prepared for "final" judgment if we're willing to work at it -- over and over again.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

@Spice,

Thank you for sharing your perceptions of Jesus and the Bible with me. However, after reading about Jesus in comparative mythology, I no longer believe the stories about him in the Bible. As I previously stated, it was a very eye-opening experience for me, which eventually contributed to my decision to renounce my belief in God and Christian faith. I realized the stories about him, such as his alleged cruxifixion, death, and resurrection, weren't as unique and compelling as I once believed. So if he really existed 2,000 years ago, I believe he was just a regular man and a prominent religious teacher whose followers circulated fabricated myths about him, including modified stories about demigods from Greek mythology and other ancient pagan religions that made him appear godlike. In the linked post, I explain why I believe the stories about him were either based on hearsay, embellished accounts, or myths from ancient pagan religions, specifically Greek mythology. You can read why I rejected my belief in Jesus' stories in this thread: The Return of Christ.

 

[Kathryn]

I converted to Roman Catholicism about 20 years ago, for ME, not for anyone else. The structure works FOR ME. Actually, I love it, but I don't try to convert others to it because it works FOR ME and I don't assume that it will automatically work for other people. However, if anyone asks me about my joy or my faith walk, I will be happy to share with them.

 

[InChrist]

I fully understand your perspective, I just don't agree with that discernment of scriptures.

Matthew 5:21-27 is Jesus's analogy on liability to judgement.

Okay, thanks. We can disagree.

I see that parable in Matthew as saying that all are guilty of murder, etc. even if they don’t actually murder, but just have evil, hateful thoughts. So that says to me all are guilty of sin and need a Savior. Since I don’t believe any scripture verse or passage is meant to be taken in isolation I am thankful for the many other passages that clearly reveal anyone who has Jesus Christ as their Savior has His perfect righteousness applied to their life, all their sins (thoughts & actions) completely washed away, are free from judgement, and are recipients of eternal life.

 

[Spice]

Okay, thanks. We can disagree.

I see that parable in Matthew as saying that all are guilty of murder, etc. even if they don’t actually murder, but just have evil, hateful thoughts. So that says to me all are guilty of sin and need a Savior. Since I don’t believe any scripture verse or passage is meant to be taken in isolation I am thankful for the many other passages that clearly reveal anyone who has Jesus Christ as their Savior has His perfect righteousness applied to their life, all their sins (thoughts & actions) completely washed away, are free from judgement, and are recipients of eternal life.

Yep, we will disagree, for I don't believe in a free pass, nor would I want one. I will forever be grateful that my earthly father never stopped loving me, but he let me clean up my own mess and appreciate that IMV, my heavenly Father does the same and has provided the most excellent advice that is proven to work: love thy neighbor--be humble and kind.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I was thinking about the idea of being separated from God the Creator forever. The Bible presents two destinations after life of this earth; one being eternal life in heaven and the other the second death or eternal separation from God/heaven. Some of the terms, descriptions, or what this state of separation will be like, are; lake of fire, everlasting fire, furnace of fire, outer darkness.
The scriptures indicate that this place was prepared for the devil and his fallen angels (Matthew 25:41). So it wasn’t for human beings. The scripture state that …

The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is patient toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 2 Pete 3:9

Yet, the scriptures also reveal that God is love and desires each person to freely choose to respond to His love and eternity with Him because real love cannot be forced.
I really like alone time, but if God is the sole source of love, loving relationships, light, joy, beauty, and all that is good, then I can not imagine an eternity in the absence of God or all that is good and loving; an eternity entirely alone and separate.

Any thoughts?

I'm not concerned about the separation aspect anymore. It used to bother me a lot which is why you stay in Christianity because you fear separation from your icon

I later discovered after leaving the religion that you're really not separate from anything real or imagined because separation is just not possible in a continuum.

It's always going to be an unbroken chain of interrelationships to where there is no actual separation between me and even the furthest star that we can see in the observable universe and beyond.

 

[InChrist]

Yep, we will disagree, for I don't believe in a free pass, nor would I want one. I will forever be grateful that my earthly father never stopped loving me, but he let me clean up my own mess and appreciate that IMV, my heavenly Father does the same and has provided the most excellent advice that is proven to work: love thy neighbor--be humble and kind.

I understand what you’re saying. I definitely don’t consider believing in or trusting Christ’s finished work on the cross to be a free pass. I have seen too many so-called professing, devote Christians who seem to have that attitude though.
I think a life transformed by Jesus Christ will demonstrate, just that; personal change… His humility and love for others.

 

[InChrist]

I'm not concerned about the separation aspect anymore. It used to bother me a lot which is why you stay in Christianity because you fear separation from your icon

I later discovered after leaving the religion that you're really not separate from anything real or imagined because separation is just not possible in a continuum.

It's always going to be an unbroken chain of interrelationships to where there is no actual separation between me and even the furthest star that we can see in the observable universe and beyond.

Thanks for your thoughts and perspective.

But you definitely have made a wrong assumption about me. I have no fear and don’t remain in relationship with Jesus because of fear about separation. I love Jesus first and foremost.
The only fear I used to have was before knowing Christ and even then I didn’t fully understand it. I used to have re-occurring nightmares though of falling down through an endless tunnel into darkness with no way to stop. After trusting Jesus… never had that nightmare again.


There is no fear in love; but perfect lovecasts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. 1 John 4:18

 

[Spice]

@Spice,

Thank you for sharing your perceptions of Jesus and the Bible with me. However, after reading about Jesus in comparative mythology, I no longer believe the stories about him in the Bible. As I previously stated, it was a very eye-opening experience for me, which eventually contributed to my decision to renounce my belief in God and Christian faith. I realized the stories about him, such as his alleged cruxifixion, death, and resurrection, weren't as unique and compelling as I once believed. So if he really existed 2,000 years ago, I believe he was just a regular man and a prominent religious teacher whose followers circulated fabricated myths about him, including modified stories about demigods from Greek mythology and other ancient pagan religions that made him appear godlike. In the linked post, I explain why I believe the stories about him were either based on hearsay, embellished accounts, or myths from ancient pagan religions, specifically Greek mythology. You can read why I rejected my belief in Jesus' stories in this thread: The Return of Christ.

I agree -- it's a mythological tale, but as with all mythology, there are points to ponder, lessons to learn. No one knows anything for certain, but if awe and wonder can be found to bring comfort, hope, and peace to individuals and the world, let the stories flow. I'll continue to explore, question, dig and discover whatever I can from the wisdom of the ancients frim all over the world, and the wisdom of the present, taking what I can use and leaving behind the rest.

Namaste

 

[alf]

I wonder if the love a person experiences is the same as the god who is said to be love! I observed the water, determining its properties and characteristics.

Water has no shape, smell and taste. It cleans a person, quenches his thirst and gives him life and does not see who is good or bad, nor whether a person is a believer or an unbeliever.

I asked myself, can a man have as much love for water as he loves a woman who unlike water, a woman has a shape, smell and taste, but she cleans the man, quenches his thirst (bodily thirst) and gives him life- gives birth?

Can a man be one with the water as he was in the womb?
Maybe it's that love that equates with god...god is love!
The human body is more than 80% water, it is never alone. Water is always in a person and around him. It remains to make his soul like the water so that they are one.

 

[InChrist]

I wonder if the love a person experiences is the same as the god who is said to be love! I observed the water, determining its properties and characteristics.

Water has no shape, smell and taste. It cleans a person, quenches his thirst and gives him life and does not see who is good or bad, nor whether a person is a believer or an unbeliever.

I asked myself, can a man have as much love for water as he loves a woman who unlike water, a woman has a shape, smell and taste, but she cleans the man, quenches his thirst (bodily thirst) and gives him life- gives birth?

Can a man be one with the water as he was in the womb?
Maybe it's that love that equates with god...god is love!
The human body is more than 80% water, it is never alone. Water is always in a person and around him. It remains to make his soul like the water so that they are one.

You have reminded me of Jesus’ words…

…but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.” John 4:14


And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. John 6:35

 

[InChrist]

I wonder if the love a person experiences is the same as the god who is said to be love! I observed the water, determining its properties and characteristics.

Water has no shape, smell and taste. It cleans a person, quenches his thirst and gives him life and does not see who is good or bad, nor whether a person is a believer or an unbeliever.

I asked myself, can a man have as much love for water as he loves a woman who unlike water, a woman has a shape, smell and taste, but she cleans the man, quenches his thirst (bodily thirst) and gives him life- gives birth?

Can a man be one with the water as he was in the womb?
Maybe it's that love that equates with god...god is love!
The human body is more than 80% water, it is never alone. Water is always in a person and around him. It remains to make his soul like the water so that they are one.

You have reminded me of Jesus’ words…

…but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.” John 4:14


And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. John 6:35


He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water .” John 7:38


Physically humans cannot survive without water. Once we leave this physical world and enter the spiritual realm, I don’t think we can survive or have a joyful eternal life apart from God, the Source of all love, goodness, beauty, peace and joy.

 

[alf]

Physically humans cannot survive without water. Once we leave this physical world and enter the spiritual realm, I don’t think we can survive or have a joyful eternal life apart from God, the Source of all love, goodness, beauty, peace and joy.

With what character will a person be in that spiritual realm? If we know that while he was a man on earth he had different periods during his life and all periods have different characteristics.
When a person dies, will he be the same age as he died, or with the appearance of a baby, child, boy, adolescent, man or old man? There is no time in death, and it is time that gives shape to the body, but not to the soul.
Which character will have that eternal life?

 

[InChrist]

With what character will a person be in that spiritual realm? If we know that while he was a man on earth he had different periods during his life and all periods have different characteristics.
When a person dies, will he be the same age as he died, or with the appearance of a baby, child, boy, adolescent, man or old man? There is no time in death, and it is time that gives shape to the body, but not to the soul.
Which character will have that eternal life?

I don’t know what age/stage a person has in the eternal realm since it sounds like an ageless realm. Those is the heavenly realm will probably be at the perfect age; whatever that is. I believe according to the scriptures, those in the heavenly realm, having been transformed by Christ will be incorruptible and have the character of Christ.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you… 1 Peter 1:3-4

Sadly, those who reject God’s love and freedom from their sin through Christ will live alone with themselves and their corrupt character, separated ( by their own choice) from all that is good, light, and love.

 

[alf]

I don’t know what age/stage a person has in the eternal realm since it sounds like an ageless realm. Those is the heavenly realm will probably be at the perfect age; whatever that is. I believe according to the scriptures, those in the heavenly realm, having been transformed by Christ will be incorruptible and have the character of Christ.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you… 1 Peter 1:3-4

Sadly, those who reject God’s love and freedom from their sin through Christ will live alone with themselves and their corrupt character, separated ( by their own choice) from all that is good, light, and love.

I have noticed how a person gets attached to words that are unchangeable in their meaning, especially to words that are related to belief, such as God, Jesus, heavenly kingdom...

The rigid understanding of the word like stone makes the hearts of believers.
Try changing the shape of the word like soft plastic.
For example, humanity for God, for Jesus-Man. example....

I come in the name of humanity!
If you have seen Man, you have also seen humanity, because they are one.

And in humanity are contained all types of age, from baby to old man, accordingly all periods from baby to old man are alive in Man, because they are one!

Inside you, the child you once were is only a memory, but not alive.

Haven't you read that....God is the god of the living, not the dead.
Man can resurrect the dead periods, and what was said... the kingdom of God is inside you, will make sense.