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Eucharist

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Terry Sampson

Well-Known Member
shmogie said:
I am an Evangelical Protestant.
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:eek::D Yeah, and your Protestant bias is showing in your description of what happens in the Lord's Supper. Now, before you draw your guns to shoot at me, let me say: For an E.P., you're not wrong and I don't think you're going to hell any quicker or slower than the RF members with a Catholic, Lutheran, or Anglican bias here. At least, not much quicker. LOL!
 
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Terry Sampson

Well-Known Member
exchemist said:
Vouthon's thoughts on the idea of drinking his blood being perhaps deliberately shocking does feel right. Christ did set out to shock his disciples by overturning established ideas in a number of ways: you see it repeatedly in the gospels.
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I read Vouthon's comments, believe that I understood them, and disagree with them on grounds that there's more to be said about Jesus' interactions with specific Jews than is told in the Christian scripture.. As Christians and Jews became alienated from each other, Christians gained independence and lost something, too, IMO. But to go into detail about what I could say on that matter merits a separate thread.
 
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Terry Sampson

Well-Known Member
Terrywoodenpic said:
The evidence is absolutely clear that in a chemical sense the bread and wine do not change into the body and blood of Christ.
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To paraphrase the Mexican's response, in "Treasure of the Sierra Madre"

Evidence?? We ain't got no evidence! We don't need no evidence! I don't have to show you any stinkin' evidence!!!

 
shmogie

shmogie

Well-Known Member
Terry Sampson said:
:eek::D Yeah, and your Protestant bias is showing in your description of what happens in the Lord's Supper. Now, before you draw your guns to shoot at me, let me say: For an E.P., you're not wrong and I don't think you're going to hell any quicker or slower than the RF members with a Catholic, Lutheran, or Anglican bias here. At least, not much quicker. LOL!
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Well, depending upon how we view truth, aren't we all biased?

A Catholic person explaining Communion display's their own Catholic bias.

Why would I shoot at you for stating the obvious?

I hope not to go to hell. If I do, racing with others to get there will be the last thing on my mind !
 
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Terry Sampson

Well-Known Member
Harel13 said:
Catholics and others with similar ideas about the Eucharist, let me get this straight: the wine and the bread spiritually become the blood and flesh?
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Harel, help me out.
  1. Is there a standard, commonly-accepted format or chronological list of events and requirements for a Passover meal?
  2. Is that information readily available on-line somewhere?
 
shmogie

shmogie

Well-Known Member
Terry Sampson said:
To paraphrase the Mexican's response, in "Treasure of the Sierra Madre"

Evidence?? We ain't got no evidence! We don't need no evidence! I don't have to show you any stinkin' evidence!!!

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Love that guy, and his testimonial re badges ! It was quoted many many times during my 25 years as a LEO, by fellow officers.

My best friend as a kid was Roman Catholic. At about 12 years old we were discussing the differences in our communion services. I asked him if he really believed that the cracker and juice/wine turned into flesh and blood after he ate it. He said no, and proceeded to tell me that that he forced himself to throw up within a half hour of Communion, and saw no meat or blood.
 
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Terry Sampson

Well-Known Member
shmogie said:
  1. Well, depending upon how we view truth, aren't we all biased?
  2. A Catholic person explaining Communion display's their own Catholic bias.
  3. Why would I shoot at you for stating the obvious?
  4. I hope not to go to hell. If I do, racing with others to get there will be the last thing on my mind !
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re: #1. Yes, indubitably.
re: #2. Indisputably.
re: #3. I just wanted to head off any potential offense given by my words.
re: #4. My thoughts, too.

It's just that the author of the OP, Unveiled Artist, seems to me to be more familiar with the Catholic version of things, if I'm not mistaken.
 
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Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Terry Sampson said:
Thanks. Your points are noted and taken. Because you acknowledge experiential familiarity with catechism style of presentation, there was no need for my post; ergo, no need to change what I said; just a need to delete the post, which I have done. No response to this post is expected or hoped for.
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I think the post would have still been benefitial. I'm only not sure
shmogie said:
You have made an illogical leap here. When Christ instituted the meal, and said "do this in remembrance of me", He and the Apostles were not eating His flesh, and drinking His blood.

He did not lose bodily mass, pieces of Him didn't fly off, He didn't start bleeding.

The key is REMEMBRANCE. Memories are not real. They are thoughts of what has occurred in the past, that were real then.

Symbolism is throughout Christianity.

Christ taught with parables, which are symbolic. He called Himself a door, a vine all symbolic of the truth.

Calling the bread and wine symbolic does not in any way take away from the literal fact of the passion.

When the communion meal was instituted, the passion had not yet occurred.

Communion is to focus on what occurred at a literal point in time. It is to eat a meal like Christ ate, and to focus on the sacrifice of body and blood He made as a substitute for us. The bread and wine represent this sacrifice.

To believe that Christ's body and blood is daily "sacrificed", means that when He said "it is finished", it wasn't, it just keeps happening perpetually.
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It's a literal mass, meal, Christ, and passion. The breaking of the bread is literally joining brothers in Christ. It's not new aged symbolism. It's highly cultural.

1. When you go to mass, you become part of his literal body. (The people)

2. In scripture when the body comes together, it makes Christ present.

3. When Christ is present, he becomes/is communion. The cornerstone of mass.

4. Christ is what joins the body. He cannot be separated from the meal...because

5. When one consumes the food they consume (lbw) his passion. Bread his life, blood sacrifice. In it, the communion/body/blood is Christ resurrection.

Everyone will be resurrected to those who sit at his table and become a church.

The literal context isn't symbolism. It's not new aged. I'm not sure why Protestants water down these practices. Spiritual is both physical (the meal) and spiritual (passion).

If it's symbolism, so is a Christian's salvation.

Do you understand what I'm saying?

Putting aside the argument you used to hearing.
 
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Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Unveiled Artist said:
I know this will always be a silly debate.

Do you catholics and non-catholics actually believe you/they are drinking real blood and eating real flesh (cannibalism)? Please say no.

I asked a priest this but I wanted to hear what you guys thought.
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I too id ask a priest
he was insistent
a miracle happens on every occasion of the holy mass
a LITERAL transformation takes place

I truly believe he was duped to the recital of church propaganda
 
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pearl

Well-Known Member
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Let's turn to clarity

In the last hours of His ministry the Carpenter performed the Passover
and said to Hid disciples ......Do this in memory of Me

that is NOT very Jewish
the Passover was intended to remember Moses and the Exodus

as for this is my body
this is my blood

a METAPHOR

what you take into yourself becomes YOU
take into yourself the bread...….His parables
take into yourself.....His Life

you share His blood line
brother and fellow servant
 
Cooky

Cooky

Veteran Member
All I can say, is that when I am before the consecrated Eucharist, I genuflect and bow my head before it. Because I am physically in the presence of God.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Landon Caeli said:
All I can say, is that when I am before the consecrated Eucharist, I genuflect and bow my head before it. Because I am physically in the presence of God.
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go to your closet and close the door
and the Spirit that knows you will hear your prayer
so said the Carpenter

how much closer do you think you can get?
 
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