Europe aids an ocean of refugees, where's Islam's charity?

[Pastek]

Dunno much, but I heard Saudi Arabia holds at least hundreds of thousands of illegal Muslim Burmese refugees, allowed to stay because the country knows their situation in their own country, granted residence ID's little by little. It is known how those people are treated in their country. Any one knows about this? Where I live there are so many of them I see with my own eyes.

Not defending, not disagreeing with some of you, I'm just sayin'... as in saying, not super Sayan.

Edit: wait, Google says millions of them?

I have seen a lot of illegal immigrants in Saudi Arabia when i went to Hajj, the majority from african countries.
I think the governement should take care of them a little bit.

I'm sure your country can accept some of the Irakis and Syrians as refugees.

Iran should also do something as they are engaged in this war.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Why aren't Muslim majority countries coming to the aid of their fellow Muslims in the current refugee crisis?

They are. They are taking in tons of refugees. But the situation isn't just one of charity and financial aid, many are either leaving places of heavy oppression such as UAE or SA, and many more are running for their lives to escape the violence in places like Syria, or violent groups such as ISIS.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

U are right about the Gulf States. They are Dbags!
Bigger Dbags are the US! They sit back and enjoy how Syrians kill each other while they can finish off this war by bombing assad and isis .

But that would involve the infidels getting involved once again in Muslim countries - which you'd end up opposing further down the line. Seriously, the attitude among some Muslims on this issue is unbelievably bi-polar. One minute you want us out of your countries and to stop meddling in your affairs because we create more problems than we solve; the next minute, the West all of a sudden needs to get involved and do something about the problems we created that you didn't want us to help solve before.

Do you want us to try and sort things out or don't you? Apparently the West are jerks for riding in and removing the big bad tyrants and we're jerks for sitting back and watching Muslim nations try to solve their own problems. So do you want our help or not? Make up your mind already!!

 

[Smart_Guy]

I have seen a lot of illegal immigrants in Saudi Arabia when i went to Hajj, the majority from african countries.
I think the governement should take care of them a little bit.

I'm sure your country can accept some of the Irakis and Syrians as refugees.

Iran should also do something as they are engaged in this war.

The govt. is actually trying to help. Some of the illegals are granted residence ID's in a program called Status Correction or something (heavy campaigns are held for it now), specially for Burmese and Yemenis, and sometimes Nigerians, and those who seem to be able to live in their own countries but can't go to financial reasons (except for Burmese that I'm sure of), are supported with accommodation (one in Makkah is called Shumaisi lodging camp) then transportation to their countries for free.

Not sure about the details, but those basically are so.

 

[Godobeyer]

Dunno much, but I heard Saudi Arabia holds at least hundreds of thousands of illegal Muslim Burmese refugees, allowed to stay because the country knows their situation in their own country, granted residence ID's little by little. It is known how those people are treated in their country. Any one knows about this? Where I live there are so many of them I see with my own eyes.

Not defending, not disagreeing with some of you, I'm just sayin'... as in saying, not super Sayan.

Edit: wait, Google says millions of them?

I am curious if you agreed with my point above about Syrians refugees .

 

[Smart_Guy]

I am curious if you agreed with my point above about Syrians refugees .

Sorry, I'm lost in all these posts
Um, which one?

Edit:
I'm honestly just too lazy to look for it, sorry

 

[Iti oj]

also what political and finical leaders do is no indication of what Islam does or Muslims do.

 

[icehorse]

also what political and finical leaders do is no indication of what Islam does or Muslims do.

There you go again, pretending that Islam is merely a religion.

 

[Iti oj]

There you go again, pretending that Islam is merely a religion.

there you go again blaming people and a religion for the action or inaction of its leaders.

 

[icehorse]

Well said.

And, of course, folks live @icehorse are always welcome to donate here if and when humanitarian concerns trump hatred and vitriol.

Jay, I donate to many causes.

Second, the OP is not about hate and vitriol. It IS about raising awareness. These unbelievably rich OPEC nations should doing much, much more than they are. We should all be aware of this. How is this a message of hate?

 

[Iti oj]

Jay, I donate to many causes.

Second, the OP is not about hate and vitriol. It IS about raising awareness. These unbelievably rich OPEC nations should doing much, much more than they are. We should all be aware of this. How is this a message of hate?

because you are blaming islam/muslims, not the leaders and leaders alone.

 

[icehorse]

there you go again blaming people and a religion for the action or inaction of its leaders.

Islam is a totalitarian ideology. Open your eyes and notice how most of the world's Muslim Majority countries are ruled, ACROSS many geographical regions and ACROSS many cultures.

 

[Politesse]

Summary of thread: People who not so secretly hate immigrants like to displace their ire by asking why "they" aren't taking more of "their own" (even if "they", in fact, do take a lot of refugees) so that "they" won't end up unwanted on "our" doorstep (even if a lot of "us" are "them" and "they" are really a "several").

 

[icehorse]

Summary of thread: People who not so secretly hate immigrants like to displace their ire by asking why "they" aren't taking more of "their own" (even if "they", in fact, do take a lot of refugees) so that "they" won't end up unwanted on "our" doorstep (even if a lot of "us" are "them" and "they" are really a "several").

Speaking for myself, I do not hate anyone, immigrants included.

I do however hate some ideas, and the folks who defend Islam have an uphill battle to defend this set of ideas. It appears now, and it has appeared for 1400 years, that when Islam becomes dominant in a society, the results are usually dubious. And I'll say it again; take a look at a world map that shows Muslim majority countries. These countries span a HUGE geographic region and these countries span many cultures. Yet when people point this out, they're dubbed haters.

How much correlation do we need to finally see some causation?

(And - preemptively - I don't think Islam is the world's only problem, and you often see me criticizing other religions and many of the west's behaviors as well.)

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Islam is a totalitarian ideology. Open your eyes and notice how most of the world's Muslim Majority countries are ruled, ACROSS many geographical regions and ACROSS many cultures.

What about how that is pretty much the Middle East and Northern Africa? What of some Muslim groups, such as the Kurds, who are nothing like the image of the "Muslim world" that the media portrays? What of Muslims who do not support or agree with the way the regimes of places like Saudi Arabia run things? We like to think groups like ISIS represent "Muslim rule," but many Muslims who are under their rule do not like it, they do not support ISIS, and many agree that things got really bad when ISIS took over. The Taliban may be very conservative and keep their women at home, but the PKK has a bunch of women fighting alongside men.
And when you expand the scope to include the rest of the world, you'll find that many of them, especially those who were born and raised in the West, tend to support many of the same values such as democracy and rule of law. Many of them have no interest in establishing a Muslim state and subjecting non-Muslims to their own beliefs and religious dogma.
But, what you hardly hear of, is how there are many Christians, especially in America, who adhere to a strict religious dogma and they are actively working to turn America into a Christian theocracy. There is nothing Biblical about it, but they are pushing very hard to make it so we all have to be subjugated to their own interpretation of Christianity.

 

[icehorse]

What about how that is pretty much the Middle East and Northern Africa? What of some Muslim groups, such as the Kurds, who are nothing like the image of the "Muslim world" that the media portrays? What of Muslims who do not support or agree with the way the regimes of places like Saudi Arabia run things? We like to think groups like ISIS represent "Muslim rule," but many Muslims who are under their rule do not like it, they do not support ISIS, and many agree that things got really bad when ISIS took over. The Taliban may be very conservative and keep their women at home, but the PKK has a bunch of women fighting alongside men.
And when you expand the scope to include the rest of the world, you'll find that many of them, especially those who were born and raised in the West, tend to support many of the same values such as democracy and rule of law. Many of them have no interest in establishing a Muslim state and subjecting non-Muslims to their own beliefs and religious dogma.
But, what you hardly hear of, is how there are many Christians, especially in America, who adhere to a strict religious dogma and they are actively working to turn America into a Christian theocracy. There is nothing Biblical about it, but they are pushing very hard to make it so we all have to be subjugated to their own interpretation of Christianity.

I applaud the Kurds and think the West should be ashamed at how little support we provide them.

I also agree that there are Muslims pushing for reform - awesome. But the vast majority of Muslims in the world seem to take "submission" a bit too literally, and allow themselves to be ruled by theocrats and thugs.

And yes, as I said, I have plenty of criticism for Christians as well, how about that hypocritical clerk in Kentucky (for example)?

 

[sun rise]

I applaud the Kurds and think the West should be ashamed at how little support we provide them.

I also agree that there are Muslims pushing for reform - awesome. But the vast majority of Muslims in the world seem to take "submission" a bit too literally, and allow themselves to be ruled by theocrats and thugs.

And yes, as I said, I have plenty of criticism for Christians as well, how about that hypocritical clerk in Kentucky (for example)?

There was the Arab Spring not so long ago as you recall where people in many nations did indeed revolt to throw off the dictators. And you know what happened in too many places. US history is unique but if you look at European history it's clear that a revolution does not change things over night and there is often a period when the old order takes back power as we've seen in Egypt.

And while it is of a matter of theological dispute, there are concepts in the Quran and Islam that many interpret as being anti-despot and pro-involvement of the people. The "shura" is one that is mentioned in the Quran translated as "mutual consultation" (from wikipedia):

"Those who hearken to their Lord, and establish regular Prayer; who (conduct) their affairs by mutual consultation among themselves; who spend out of what We bestow on them for Sustenance" [are praised]

And as far as submission goes beyond the precepts of Islam of submission to God, my reading tells me that when Muhammad was alive and said something people would ask if it were from God or from Muhammad. If from him, then what he said was subject to discussion and change. That is a powerful example considering the esteem to which Muhammad was then and is now held by Muslims. So if a modern ruler sets himself as above such consultation and revision, he is violating a fundamental pattern laid down by Muhammad.

About so-called Muslims and so-called Christians interpreting their scriptures to suit themselves, I think Shakespeare said it best:

The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.
An evil soul producing holy witness
Is like a villain with a smiling cheek,
A goodly apple rotten at the heart:
O, what a goodly outside falsehood hath!

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Jay, I donate to many causes.

That's nice.

Second, the OP is not about hate and vitriol. It IS about raising awareness.

Rubbish. The post is about "Where's Islam's charity?" and "Why aren't Muslim majority countries coming to the aid of their fellow Muslims in the current refugee crisis?" You paint with a broad brush. There's a name for this type of polemic. Hopefully some of the responses will served to raise your awareness.

 

[icehorse]

That's nice.
Rubbish. The post is about "Where's Islam's charity?" and "Why aren't Muslim majority countries coming to the aid of their fellow Muslims in the current refugee crisis?" You paint with a broad brush. There's a name for this type of polemic. Hopefully some of the responses will served to raise your awareness.

Indeed, I've learned from this thread. And I'm heartened that it's been viewed many times.

Jay, have you learned anything about the world from this thread, or are all of your opinions already cast in stone?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Jay, have you learned anything about the world from this thread, or are all of your opinions already cast in stone?

I've learned that you dabble in false dilemma, perhaps believing that you've actually said something meaningful.