Everyone who hears of Jesus but does not accept Him is going to hell.

[Desert Snake]

Of course it doesn't make sense! It doesn't make sense because that's not what she said. What doesn't make sense is that God would expect someone to be able to accept Jesus if he'd never heard of Jesus.

Actually, that isn't what she said, and the OP specifies, in the title, 'everyone who hears of Jesus, but doesn't accept Him.

If the answer is, that one has to accept Jesus, then, the answer to the OP is basically yes, or mostly yes. An answer that has no definite meaning either way, is not really answering the OP.

 

[JoStories]

Yeah, but the Gospel of Thomas, which is excelent btw, was still inspired by the spirit of Jesus' teachings. And, I do agree that these lessons aren't confined to these texts, even including all of the claimed "gospels" (29 of them I believe). But, in my part of the world and my culture, Jesus seems to be the one that mattered most.

True. But does that mean it should be that way? IOW, what I am asking is just because we have this huge base of Christians here, does that mean it should be that way? Why not look to other messengers of God as well as Christ? I am not diminishing the weight or importance of Christ or his message but rather pointing to the fact that many other of the messengers of God had important lessons as well.

 

[JoStories]

I too believe the gospel of Thomas to be very close to the original teachings of Jesus.

As do I. The fact that the RCC has usurped Christ's teachings and twisted them seems to me to only mean they want people to think Christ only lives in churches, which is ridiculous. The spirit of Christ is everywhere.

 

[leibowde84]

True. But does that mean it should be that way? IOW, what I am asking is just because we have this huge base of Christians here, does that mean it should be that way? Why not look to other messengers of God as well as Christ? I am not diminishing the weight or importance of Christ or his message but rather pointing to the fact that many other of the messengers of God had important lessons as well.

I guess I feel like whether or not it "should" be that way is beyond the point. There is nothing we can do about the past. Moving forward, I think that individually we have the responsibility to explore alternatives.

 

[JoStories]

I guess I feel like whether or not it "should" be that way is beyond the point. There is nothing we can do about the past. Moving forward, I think that individually we have the responsibility to explore alternatives.

That's more or less what I was saying. Looking at articles of faith should, IMO, not be limited to the one faith. But of course, that is the way I approach this. With an open mind to other faiths that may fit me or may not.

 

[Nakosis]

IMO, there are lies in all of the sacred texts. Lies and truth that we must meditate on and ferret out in order to become enlightened. The Bible holds some of the truth but not all, as do other texts. The purpose of finding out the lies, for each person, is to understand what the lies are for each person and what are the truths. For each, it would be different. IMO.

If this is true, I assume that, well learned it from a Hindu Guru actually, that this is the maha lila, big game or play. Kind of a hind and seek God plays with God's self.

 

[Glaurung]

Honestly, that makes even less sense, because Paul is simply wrong. These invisible qualities have not been clearly seen (nevermind the sillyness of "seeing" invisible qualities which I'll allow since it's likely just poetic flair), and in no time in my life have I seen any indication of a singular Creator.

Be that your sincere conviction or your self-serving opinion, I'm not the one who can see into the depths of your conscience. Only you can know that. As for myself I did the whole atheist thing, but I could never kill that feeling that what I was doing was wrong.

Good thing I was never baptized, then. ^_^

You're skipping the rest of the point there. Anyone who knows the Church and her role in our salvation, yet obstinately refuses to enter will be damned. But again as always, the degree which any given soul was ignorant of the Church will be for God to determine.

Pretty classic Hellenic idea, that the Theoi cannot be fooled and that those who try are punished.

It's not that all outside the Church is utterly devoid of all truth when it comes to God and our relationship with him. It's a scale, and some philosophies certainly hint to more of it than others. But to the degree which pagan philosophical concepts capture some element of truth they nonetheless cannot save us from the inevitable damnation we would all incur without the grace of God, which can only be obtained through Christ.

 

[Smart_Guy]

I voted no.

But I accept Jesus in the Islam way.

 

[Riverwolf]

Be that your sincere conviction or your self-serving opinion, I'm not the one who can see into the depths of your conscience. Only you can know that. As for myself I did the whole atheist thing, but I could never kill that feeling that what I was doing was wrong.

I'm not an atheist.

I'm a polytheist.

You're skipping the rest of the point there. Anyone who knows the Church and her role in our salvation, yet obstinately refuses to enter will be damned. But again as always, the degree which any given soul was ignorant of the Church will be for God to determine.

Fine with me. The whole "salvation" thing never made any sense outside the context of "salvation from Roman occupation", and then during the Migration Age after West Rome's Fall, "salvation from these horrible times".

I see great wisdom and applicability in these stories when they're taken as that. Remove the Hand of God from the Christian mythos, and its true wonder comes forth. Adam and Eve is seriously one of my favorite stories from all the World's Lore. I love the idea of the Divine Comedy, and even toyed with the idea of adapting and reworking that imagery and concept into something involving Tiw, who was the Allfather and King of the Ese (Aesir) before Woden claimed those titles during the Migration Age (heck, the very word and name "God" replaced the word and name "Tiw/Tiu/Tyr"). Tiw's domains include honor, law, justice, victory, and single-combat, and He's one of the reasons culture instinctively thinks of "God" as "up/in the sky". He is a Sky Father; i.e., a Heavenly Father. (Heaven used to simply be a synonym for Sky). Historically, Zeus and Jupiter are among His Brothers, and His name is cognate with words like "Deus", "Dia", and Sanskrit "Dyaus Pita".

But here's the thing. I very much agree with Lucifer in Paradise Lost: to reign is worth ambition, though in Hell; better to reign in Hell than to serve in Heaven. (Should be noted that I've not actually read the bulk of that work, so I don't know if that declaration was refuted, and if so, how). Lucifer is Prometheus, the Titan who loved humanity and would not stand by while the selfish Olympioi would not share Fire. He is Robin Hood, who takes the ill-gotten wealth from the Rich to give back to those from whom it was stolen via the law.

It's not that all outside the Church is utterly devoid of all truth when it comes to God and our relationship with him. It's a scale, and some philosophies certainly hint to more of it than others. But to the degree which pagan philosophical concepts capture some element of truth they nonetheless cannot save us from the inevitable damnation we would all incur without the grace of God, which can only be obtained through Christ.

I don't buy that explanation for the similarities. I find it far more likely that the early church simply adopted many of the pre-Christian traditions and taboos in order to better appeal to the people as a whole.

Modern equivalents might be those various newer religions that pop up now and then that talk about things like "salvation" or an upcoming "end of the world", with a messianic figure at the center. Dead ringers for Christian theology, but they often incorporate elements borrowed from other stuff, such as barely understood Eastern philosophies, alien theologies, New Age practices, etc. They do that because it's a familiar framework that people respond well to.

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

Thomas the apostle was unable to accept when he heard jesus had risen, he was forgiven.
Imho jesus is a stepping stone to God one of many, some actually dont need phrophets or books.
If i was God i would judge on how one interacted with the creation and not which church they attended if any.

 

[JustWondering]

Everyone who does not accept Jesus is going to Hell.

What do you think? Yes, or no? If no, then what is basis for accepting Jesus?

Why is belief so important? People are who they are regardless of religion. Honestly, I would think that people who claim to be Christian but don't act like a Christian would have more to fear than non-believers if Jesus is real.

 

[JoStories]

If this is true, I assume that, well learned it from a Hindu Guru actually, that this is the maha lila, big game or play. Kind of a hind and seek God plays with God's self.

Maybe its too early and I haven't had enough coffee but what exactly is your point here? I was saying that God can be found in many places. Are you suggesting that that is like God playing hide and seek? If so, why? Could it not be that God wanted people to find the truth of God where it best fits that person?

 

[Nakosis]

Maybe its too early and I haven't had enough coffee but what exactly is your point here? I was saying that God can be found in many places. Are you suggesting that that is like God playing hide and seek? If so, why? Could it not be that God wanted people to find the truth of God where it best fits that person?

Entertainment. Basically there is no truth. It is all theatrical. Drama, comedy, horror.

People look for God. The idea is God plays hide and seek with his/her self. A part of you is in complete control of your experience. It's just that your conscious self has been cut off from that knowledge. Nothing happens to anyone that is not caused by themselves. There is no separate God to blame for anything.

The more people seek the truth, the further away they get from it. The only truth is you. Everything else is an illusion which you have manifested yourself.

Lift the stone and you find God there, not under the stone but lifting it.

What I find is that you can to a degree create your life. I don't know to what degree. According to this belief, you can do anything. However if you could imagine, being all powerful, then there is no real meaning to life because you can create whatever meaning, whatever purpose you wish at a whim. You could create, destroy, recreate anything. So you purposely limit your knowledge and power to create a purpose within yourself to seek these things.

Supposedly at some point you will realize it's all a game you've created for yourself. At which point you'll start the game all over again.

 

[Muffled]

How is that love, though? Is not love selfless? Loving someone because you think you will get something out of it is a little weird, especially coming from a Christian, as Jesus himself described love as sacrificial and compassionate in its very nature. I do think Hell is a pagan intrusion into our faith (clue is in the name). But if I didn't, I would not be okay with prospering off some nominal connection to Jesus while others suffered in utter agony, and I definitely would not call that love - that's a rejection of everything Jesus taught us about how we should feel about our neighbors.

I believe there are many kinds of love. Loving because one is receiving something good from someone is usually called conditional love. God loves with an unconditional love. He loves us even though we do things that don't please Him. I do love God unconditionally as well but only becasue He is good.

I do not believe it is. It is the self that must love so it is always involved.

I believe it doesn't seem weird to me because most people practice this kind of love.

I don't believe I understand why one would think Christians are immune from conditional love.

I believe He was talking about the greatest love. There are levels. I don't love my daughter the same way I love my wife.

I beleive Hell is Biblical and I have never known a Christian to take the pagan view of it. The name gives us a way to say in English what the text says in Greek.

I believe I do not have a nominal connection but a personal one. I believe in free will and love means allowing people to suffer because they choose to do so.

 

[Muffled]

No. Don't believe in Jesus. Also don't believe in Hell.

I beleive it won't matter what one believes. God will dispose of people as he judges them.

 

[Muffled]

Maybe we've already in hell by being here at RF?

I beleive I am not in a fire on RF. Also I am not left to my own conscience on RF since many think they are my conscience. At any rate my spiritual condition is so good that it never could be construed as torment.

 

[Levite]

I beleive it won't matter what one believes. God will dispose of people as he judges them.

Yes, I also believe it won't matter what one believes: God will be merciful, forgiving, loving, and compassionate to all His creations.

 

[Muffled]

Yes, I also believe it won't matter what one believes: God will be merciful, forgiving, loving, and compassionate to all His creations.

I believe you can say that but you also must be aware that God punishes the wicked.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Most people think Jesus was a great teacher. Those who follow his teachings are blessed.

 

[Levite]

I believe you can say that but you also must be aware that God punishes the wicked.

I believe that the "punishment" of the wicked is the recognition of their own wickedness. God, being merciful, then gives them new opportunities to atone for their sins, and continues to do so until their sins are entirely atoned for.