Everyone worships

[Bthoth]

People worship whatever they give their lives to, time, attention, money, love and adoration to. Now unless you are the Creator and all -powerful one that is in control of things then there is a power greater than yourself, some place science and the things you can see, feel and touch in high esteem over everything and base your life and decisions on these things. People protect and fight for the things they worship, give their lives to these things. Yes, everyone does worship something.
Do you idolize your intellect and knowledge? That’s your idol and worship. Some may put a high value on material things, materialism and that is your god and worship.

same style of rhetoric. Either a person worships the god of a religion or they idolize themselves, etc........

When will people grow out of the old rhetoric?

 

[Bthoth]

Verse 2:255 eloquence is highly dependent on this definition.

So that verse depends on that definition? Is it possible that it's the other way around? That your definition is dependent on that verse?

 

[Link]

same style of rhetoric. Either a person worships the god of a religion or they idolize themselves, etc........

When will people grow out of the old rhetoric?

It's tautologically true though. Which is why people have to out lengths to complicate the definition.

 

[Bthoth]

It's tautologically true though. Which is why people have to out lengths to complicate the definition.

That was why my very first post included the definition of the word. To remove the complications and added rubbish that the religiously observant try to impose.

 

[Link]

So that verse depends on that definition? Is it possible that it's the other way around? That your definition is dependent on that verse?

You won't see it's eloquence without keeping this in mind. My definition is based on Quran and hadiths, but, I think a lot of people are realizing this definition is simple while the current western one is very complicated about both worship and religion.

 

[Link]

That was why my very first post included the definition of the word. To remove the complications and added rubbish that the religiously observant try to impose.

Semantics is half the battle between truth and falsehood.

 

[Bthoth]

You won't see it's eloquence without keeping this in mind. My definition is based on Quran and hadiths,

I dont find an eloquence of using the idea of worship to insult people.

but, I think a lot of people are realizing this definition is simple while the current western one is very complicated about both worship and religion.

The word worship by definition requires participation and the assumptions created by religions are both manmade.

 

[Secret Chief]

I love the music of Scriabin. Everybody does.
Even if you don't know who they are, they represent the True Heart that resides within us all. That is Scriabin.
Even if you don't like music, the original meaning of music was the Rhythm of Life - and that is given to us by god. That is Scriabin.

 

[Bthoth]

Semantics is half the battle between truth and falsehood.

Leveling the playing field for each to participate, is how honorable discourse unfolds.

Truth is best understood among the civil and anyone conscious can create a falsehood.

My point is, worship is not something that everyone does and no religion rules what is true and correct.

 

[Link]

The word worship by definition requires participation and the assumptions created by religions are both manmade.

Not very much direct worshipers of Satan. However, indirectly, not very many don't worship Satan. You won't understand Quran without keeping in mind the simple definition.

 

[Bthoth]

I love the music of Scriabin. Everybody does.
Even if you don't know who they are, they represent the True Heart that resides within us all. That is Scriabin.
Even if you don't like music, the original meaning of music was the Rhythm of Life - and that is given to us by god. That is Scriabin.

is that the same as helter skelter........?

 

[Link]

Leveling the playing field for each to participate, is how honorable discourse unfolds.

Truth is best understood among the civil and anyone conscious can create a falsehood.

My point is, worship is not something that everyone does and no religion rules what is true and correct.

Worship is done by everything that values, it's possible not to value anything, just realistically non-existent. It's relative worship, exalting, deeming great, and valuing. Monotheists just hold that God is so far exalted, that he should not be classified with anything else in terms of valuing.

 

[Secret Chief]

is that the same as helter skelter........?

Huh?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

My definition is the one it's been used from ancient times and by most of the world.

No, it's not. You're just trying to confuse it and water the term down until it's so dilluted and distorted you can claim everyone worships something. But that just isn't the case. Valuing something doesn't mean you worship it.

 

[Link]

No, it's not. You're just trying to confuse it and water the term down until it's so dilluted and distorted you can claim everyone worships something. But that just isn't the case.

I'm just telling you how it's defined in Quran and hadiths, and how most of the world defined these things in a simple way. This new definition of religion in the west by academics can make atheists feel good about themselves, but it's too complex still for most of the world. Worship is just highest level of valuing, and we value things relative to each other. It's not confusing. It's the new definition that is very confusing.

 

[Bthoth]

Not very much direct worshipers of Satan.

Is that why so many kiss the dirt 5 times a day.

However, indirectly, not very many don't worship Satan.

Which satan is that? I suppose you own that definition too?

You won't understand Quran without keeping in mind the simple definition.

funny .... Now a person must know the definitions of worship and satan to understand quran?

In every belief system, there is always someone that sets up rules of who is and who is not capable of understanding what they do.

Come on judgment day make them all extinct.

 

[Bthoth]

Worship is done by everything that values, it's possible not to value anything, just realistically non-existent. It's relative worship, exalting, deeming great, and valuing. Monotheists just hold that God is so far exalted, that he should not be classified with anything else in terms of valuing.

Valuations are not relevant to worship. Is your god, a business living in the heaven of capitalism.

Look up 'invisible hand' to understand what you are using. Adam Smith 1776 (book Wealth of Nations)

 

[Link]

Which satan is that?

There is two "I" in us. One that is from Iblis and Satanic and his breath, and one that is from God. The one from God is from the Imam of time, and the one from Iblis is from one of Satanic forces that is connected to Iblis and has his lineage (spiritually) from him.

You either born of the spirit of truth (Imam) or spirit of falsehood.

Most people hold on to Satan thinking it's their original self or the self they chose to be.

"Who knows himself knows his Lord" - Prophet Mohammad, Imam Ali, and other Imams have said it.

 

[Link]

funny .... Now a person must know the definitions of worship and satan to understand quran?

Yes and words can only do so much. So many people recite Quran and still don't see the manifest enemy Satan nor detect the Qareen (close companion) from Iblis and hardly give Satan a fight.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm just telling you how it's defined in Quran and hadiths, and how most of the world defined these things in a simple way. This new definition of religion in the west by academics can make atheists feel good about themselves, but it's too complex still for most of the world. Worship is just highest level of valuing, and we value things relative to each other. It's not confusing. It's the new definition that is very confusing.

Then the Quran and Hadiths are wrong.
Looks to me like this whole thread is just a stab at atheists to say "you're just like me." That's just as bogus as the atheist trying to say "you're an atheist like me, I just believe in one less god than you."
The only confusion is when a theist tries to broaden the word until it's stretched thin and tearing in places just to try to erroneously claim everyone worships something. A lot of people worship nothing.