Cacotopia
Let's go full Trottle
Yes finally after the myriad of guess and not looking it up yourself you have stumbled upon the answer we have been telling to you this entire time.
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Everything came forth from nothing?
- Thread starter Spiderman
- Start date
Yes finally after the myriad of guess and not looking it up yourself you have stumbled upon the answer we have been telling to you this entire time.
Cacotopia
Let's go full Trottle
Disproving the Bible also disproves that it was divinely inspired, it does not disprove god, the absence of evidence for that particular god is enough for me to not believe, but you can't have evidence to disprove something that doesn't exist. Finding evidence would prove it's existence, the only way to determine if god isn't real would be never finding evidence for that particular deity since you cannot prove a false positive.
And prior to writing information was passed on in oral tradition. We likely would not be where we are if writing was never invented but we would be somewhere. We made tools, we built cover and had clothing before writing, we invented agriculture and the wheel before writing. Arrows, animal domestication, bronze working, mysticism, religion, all and more came before writing. A wealth of knowledge had to begin to pool before writing even became necessary.
And nonhuman creatures pass down technique as well. New skills form in social circles of animals all the time, like the dogs in Moscow learning to use the subway system, or packs of dogs using a puppy as a tool to get food from humans. Children are helpless and adult strays pick up on that and have learned to utilize a puppy for survival. As I mentioned before pods of dolphins living in shallow waters learned new techniques not present in deep sea faring dolphins, Killer whales off the coast of California have learned that if you tear the stomach out of a great white it acts as a shark repellent. Every summer it has been documented that a certain pod of orcas find and kill a great white, by ramming it's gills turning it upside down and drag it to the surface and drown it they then tear open it;s abdomen and leave the corpse. With the dead shark is an astoundingly amazing shark repellent. And the great whites that migrate to the waters of the coast of california have been documented to literally hi tail it out of there until next summer. Other pods do not exhibit this behavior, it was learned. And for several generations this skill has been utilized.
And prior to writing information was passed on in oral tradition. We likely would not be where we are if writing was never invented but we would be somewhere. We made tools, we built cover and had clothing before writing, we invented agriculture and the wheel before writing. Arrows, animal domestication, bronze working, mysticism, religion, all and more came before writing. A wealth of knowledge had to begin to pool before writing even became necessary.
And nonhuman creatures pass down technique as well. New skills form in social circles of animals all the time, like the dogs in Moscow learning to use the subway system, or packs of dogs using a puppy as a tool to get food from humans. Children are helpless and adult strays pick up on that and have learned to utilize a puppy for survival. As I mentioned before pods of dolphins living in shallow waters learned new techniques not present in deep sea faring dolphins, Killer whales off the coast of California have learned that if you tear the stomach out of a great white it acts as a shark repellent. Every summer it has been documented that a certain pod of orcas find and kill a great white, by ramming it's gills turning it upside down and drag it to the surface and drown it they then tear open it;s abdomen and leave the corpse. With the dead shark is an astoundingly amazing shark repellent. And the great whites that migrate to the waters of the coast of california have been documented to literally hi tail it out of there until next summer. Other pods do not exhibit this behavior, it was learned. And for several generations this skill has been utilized.
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ecco
Veteran Member
How do you know what Jesus said?
If you don't take the bible literally, why do you literally believe in its god?
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Spiderman
Veteran Member
I know what historians say Jesus said. Whether Jesus said that or not is not certain.
I'm also not so sure that I believe in the Bible's God.
Some of the Bible seems ridiculous and goes against my conscience.
ecco
Veteran Member
- What science books have you presented here that have been dismissed?
- What scientific links have you presented here that have been dismissed?
- What scientific documentaries have you presented here that have been dismissed?
sealchan
Well-Known Member
This is true...but it does make chimpanzees demonstrably much more similar to humans than any other species...to date.
But then again, since those primates that developed into the various humanoid lines have come about and over hundreds of thousands of years of competition have selected a single species to dominate (which I suspect is an evolutionary mechanism), since the dawn of chimpanzee language in a lab took place in the last tens of years, we can't say where it will go.
I just found this article showing evidence that a single gene might have a great impact on the difference in language abilities between chimps and humans...
Why Can't Chimps Speak? Key Differences In How Human And Chimp Versions Of FOXP2 Gene Work
ecco
Veteran Member
Did you read the article? Actually read all of it? Did you check the footnotes?
If you did you would have seen a lot of things like...
Two years apart, a fifteen-year-old girl and her mother were cured of tuberculosis. Four other pilgrims were cured twice of different conditions.27 The cures of two patients only occurred after the ninth immersion in the piscines, and in a third case during the fifth pilgrimage.
27Tuberculosis in September 1909, then hernia in August 1910; tuberculosis in June 1910, then gastritis in August of the same year; a severe form of irritable bowel syndrome in October 1911, then Poncet's rheumatoid arthritis in September 1912; recurrent abscesses of limbs and buttocks in 1912, then in 1930.
Another quote...
scores of visiting physicians witnessed the disappearance of macroscopic lesions, easy to identify, such as external tumors, uterine fibromas, open wounds, and suppurative or fecal fistulae.
Any documented before and after pictures? Nope. None. Zero. Zip. Ziltch.
And this...
The Lourdes cures have been praeter naturam (beyond the natural course of nature), not contra naturam (contrary to nature, breaking a natural law). Thus, a case of pulmonary tuberculosis initially considered incurable but which was nonetheless cured at Lourdes is praeter naturam, whereas the growth of a new limb after amputation, an impossible achievement in the human species, would be contra naturam.
Spontaneous remission of tuberculosis is infrequent (beyond the natural course of nature) yet it occurs - without the assistance of gods or saints or blessed water.
A contra naturam cure would be a miracle. There were no contra naturam cures. None. Zero. Zip. Ziltch.
Did I miss something?
ecco
Veteran Member
It is obvious to me also. Hence my questions.
ecco
Veteran Member
The writers of the NT were not historians. The writers of the NT were people who wanted to promote a religion. You do understand the difference, don't you?
Then which god are you referring to?
Then why accept any of it?
Cacotopia
Let's go full Trottle
I think that in the case of information not following their agenda generally gets dismissed altogether or omitted on purpose. I know I have been guilty of this a few times.
@PopeADope - You understand that all authors writing on what jesus said were not alive when jesus said it and the oral tradition is notorious for altering what was actually said. An experiment can be easily made in a group of as little as 30 people give one a sentence and pass it along and have it go around the room till the message returns to you. It's never the same as what you made it to be and this is in the span of minutes. Now take the message of Jesus and have that message go around from person to person for half a century amongst 1000's and 1000's of people,not to mention different languages which 100% of the time do not translate well into each other. The original story and teachings of Jesus if he was even a real person is lost and all that remains is a fabrication of the events.
All great stories follow a very simple formula.
1 part fact
2 parts fiction
3 parts legend
4 parts snowball
Very little of the Bible is truth. Most of it is made up.
@PopeADope - You understand that all authors writing on what jesus said were not alive when jesus said it and the oral tradition is notorious for altering what was actually said. An experiment can be easily made in a group of as little as 30 people give one a sentence and pass it along and have it go around the room till the message returns to you. It's never the same as what you made it to be and this is in the span of minutes. Now take the message of Jesus and have that message go around from person to person for half a century amongst 1000's and 1000's of people,not to mention different languages which 100% of the time do not translate well into each other. The original story and teachings of Jesus if he was even a real person is lost and all that remains is a fabrication of the events.
All great stories follow a very simple formula.
1 part fact
2 parts fiction
3 parts legend
4 parts snowball
Very little of the Bible is truth. Most of it is made up.
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So, I took my meds today and realized that last night when I didn't get to sleep till after 6:00Am and started a thread say "the big bang" gave us everything, I forgot to take my Seroquel, antipsychotic.
Still, I'll stand by it.
The big bang did give us everything. Indirectly, in a similar sense to saying, Jesus is responsible for the existence of the Papacy.
Obviously, some of us are not scientifically oriented, which is one reason why, some of us have inner convictions that prevent us from believing that energy for a big bang, independent of an intelligent supernatural creative designer, lead to a series of events that gave birth to scientific mechanisms responsible for this:
I'm totally willing to accept evolution, and the big bang, but am not able to believe such transformations and mutations took place, independent of a guide.
People say there is no evidence for a creator. I beg to differ. I see evidence for a creator every day. A lot of people do.
I've studied eyewitness testimonies, medically documented miracles, and supernatural phenomenon that has no scientific explanation. I believe God chooses not to grant those favors to most people, and it makes me angry at God, but still, God provides the evidence, and many atheists, communists, scientists, and agnostics, have given their testimony of how someone with the gift of prophecy, a miracle, or supernatural phenomenon, converted them. Yet many people dismiss all that on the basis that God has not provided those graces to them, therefore the testimonies, including scientifically and medically documented miracles, are simply false.
Another thing, Apes share 99% similar DNA...but are we really all that similar?
In my opinion, there are actually very few similarities between human's and chimps. It simply appears obvious to me. We have common DNA and we are both primates, but I see very few similarities to be honest.
Chimps lack language, no alphabet, plumbing, medicine, civilization, and display few behaviors that resemble a human being.
Anyway,
let's get to the real reason I started this thread. Did any of these: Nickel, iron, rock, silicon, , magnesium, aluminum, oxygen, other minerals, calcium, sodium, potassium, liquid water, nitrogen, carbon dioxide, and other gases, always exist?
Did any of these exist without beginning?
If so, doesn't it take a leap of faith to believe that? Also, if they had to have a beginning, doesn't that mean they essentially came forth from nothingness?
Also, can we prove the theories about "Scientific mechanisms" that could cause living creatures to come forth from these elements or substances?
The evolution of elements is well known. After the bb the universe was an extremely hot plasma of quantum particles. As the plasma cooled hydrogen then helium formed. Gravity clumped the particles which eventually formed 1st generation suns. As those suns burned and eventually died the first few heavier elements formed. The elements eventually formed 2nd generation suns where, using the same fusion process heavier elements (up to iron were formed). Elements heavier than iron can only be formed when a sun goes supernova.
How elements are formed
As for proof of life arising from these elements, i don't believe any scientific proof exits but there is plenty of evidence.
Here is some recent discovered evidence
https://phys.org/news/2015-06-evidence-emerges-life.html
Spiderman
Veteran Member
I'm not promoting the Bible and I think much of the Bible is asinine and goes against my conscience....Why do you keep insisting on bringing up the Bible when I've already stated that I don't believe in it, trust it, or follow it?!?!
Spiderman
Veteran Member
I believe God is a spirit that speaks to the hearts of people of all faiths. I believe every Religion has some truth and some errors.
I believe God wants to be a hidden mystery for now, but does sometimes speak to a select few people and on occasion does work miracles, that have converted atheists, baffled Doctors, baffled scientists, and been medically documented and verified.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
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Scientific Evidence for Miracles page 1: examination of the Lourdes rules for miracel acceptence.
The Medical committee at Lourdes is totally independent of the Church. They use skeptics on the committees, the rules are geared to control for remission. They screen our remission. They are required to use only the best medical evidence, to consult the doctors of the patients and they cannot make decisions without obtaining the medical records of those doctors. They do examine the patients. It does have to be proven that the people were sick beforehand! they will only choose a case when they cannot find a naturalistic explaination.
Scientific Evidence for Miracles page 1: examination of the Lourdes rules for miracel acceptence.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
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Scientific Evidence for Miracles page 1: examination of the Lourdes rules for miracel acceptence.
The Medical committee at Lourdes is totally independent of the Church. They use skeptics on the committees, the rules are geared to control for remission. They screen our remission. They are required to use only the best medical evidence, to consult the doctors of the patients and they cannot make decisions without obtaining the medical records of those doctors. They do examine the patients. It does have to be proven that the people were sick beforehand! they will only choose a case when they cannot find a naturalistic explaination.
Scientific Evidence for Miracles page 1: examination of the Lourdes rules for miracel acceptence.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
I'm bringing up the enormous impact Jesus has had on our world. Sometimes I quote him. I quote Buddha and Muhammad sometimes as well. It doesn't mean I believe everything he said...quite the opposite...and truth is, we don't know what he said
Spiderman
Veteran Member
And you make yourself look sort of foolish and shoot your credibility in the foot when you state they were "fabricated lies".
You don't know what you are talking about, because you weren't there, and you never met the authors, and you don't know whether they were credible or not.