Evidence of NOAH's FLOOD

[shunyadragon]

Both those texts and the KJV say that the flood was only 15 cubits high not 20 cubits. Therefore the height of the highest hills/mountains in the flood zone were less than 15 cubits above the normal river height, and why they were covered by the flood water.
To the contrary, that story simply describes one of many river floods in that area, which unfortunately drowned most of Noah's family and their cattle and goats and pigs and chooks.

I reviewed all the different translations and the conclusions are that they roughly conform to the ills and mountains are covered with at least 15-20 cubits of water. You are trying to Gerrymander the texts to suit your agenda. I believe the NIV version made every effort to go back to the known texts and come up with an excellent translation.Your interpretation creates to many conflicts.

19 They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered. 20 The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than fifteen cubits.

Note the King James version does not agree with you if read properly. '20 cubits upward did the water prevail, and the mountains covered.' does not translate to the depth of the water being only 15 or 20 cubits deep.

19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. 20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail, and the mountains were covered.

 

[YoursTrue]

The separate genealogies in Gen 4 & 5 say that they were also the sons of Lamech, and that they were the fathers of all nomadic herders and musical instrument makers, and therefore they and their families were not drowned with the rest of their family since Noah only built a boat.
The genealogy in the Gen 5 story includes the separate genealogy in the Gen 4 story with minor changes in spelling and order. Thus Cainan=Cain, Mahalalel=Mehujael, Jared=Irad, Enoch=Enoch, Methuselah=Methusael, Lamech=Lamech. Therefore the "Adam" in the Gen 4 story was the grandson of the "Adam" in the Gen 5 story - ie Enosh.

Oh yes they passed their legacy on.

 

[Monty]

I reviewed all the different translations and the conclusions are that they roughly conform to the ills and mountains are covered with at least 15-20 cubits of water. You are trying to Gerrymander the texts to suit your agenda. I believe the NIV version made every effort to go back to the known texts and come up with an excellent translation.Your interpretation creates to many conflicts.

19 They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered. 20 The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than fifteen cubits.

Note the King James version does not agree with you if read properly. '20 cubits upward did the water prevail, and the mountains covered.' does not translate to the depth of the water being only 15 or 20 cubits deep.

19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. 20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail, and the mountains were covered.

IOW the NIV is just another false version and translation which are just trying to Gerrymander the texts to suit their agendas, given that the Hebrew text says that the flood height was only 15 cubits, and as confirmed by Young's literal translation and the Orthodox Jewish bible and the KJB etc. It's just personal choice if one prefers to read the false fantasies, or the Hebrew text and the OJB and YLT.

And any 10 year old who is actually familiar with the English language and the purpose and function of a semi-colon can clearly see that the KJV says that the flood height was only 15 cubits and not 20 cubits and DOES NOT say that the mountains were covered by 15 or 20 cubits.
I suggest you discuss what the Hebrew text actually says and means with a Rabbi or a credible Hebrew scholar.

 

[Monty]

Oh yes they passed their legacy on.

And therefore Jubal and Jabal and their families weren't drowned either.

 

[YoursTrue]

And therefore Jubal and Jabal and their families weren't drowned either.

I'll go over the account when I have more time.

 

[YoursTrue]

And therefore Jubal and Jabal and their families weren't drowned either.

They lived before Noah, according to this. Jubal (Bible) - Wikipedia

 

[ppp]

And any 10 year old who is actually familiar with the English language and the purpose and function of a semi-colon can clearly see that the KJV says that the flood height was only 15 cubits and not 20 cubits and DOES NOT say that the mountains were covered by 15 or 20 cubits.
I suggest you discuss what the Hebrew text actually says and means with a Rabbi or a credible Hebrew scholar.

Just one? Not the scholarly consensus? And you want someone else to do your legwork for you? Even a 10 year old would recognize that for the scam that is.

 

[Monty]

They lived before Noah, according to this. Jubal (Bible) - Wikipedia

The seperate stories in Gen 4 & 5, however, say that they were Noah's younger brothers (Gen 5:30), along with their sister, Naamah, who was Noah's wife.
And since Gen 4 says that Jabal & Jubal are the fathers of all nomadic herders and musical instrument makers, therefore obviously none of their family members were drowned since Noah wasn't the father of all nomadic herders or musical instrument makers.

 

[Monty]

Just one? Not the scholarly consensus? And you want someone else to do your legwork for you? Even a 10 year old would recognize that for the scam that is.

Yes the NIV etc are just scams. And don't change the fact that the Jewish Orthodox Bible and Youngs Literal Translation and the KJV clearly say that the flood height was only 15 cubits, and DO NOT say that the mountains or high hills were covered by 15 cubits.

 

[ppp]

Yes the NIV etc are just scams. And don't change the fact that the Jewish Orthodox Bible and Youngs Literal Translation and the KJV clearly say that the flood height was only 15 cubits, and DO NOT say that the mountains or high hills were covered by 15 cubits.

Remove your opinion from those sentences and there is nothing left.

 

[Monty]

Remove your opinion from those sentences and there is nothing left.

And depends if you prefer to believe what the Hebrew bible actually says, or the NIV fantasies and the other scams.

 

[YoursTrue]

The story in Gen 5, however, says that they were Noah's younger brothers (Gen 5:30), along with their sister, Naamah, who was Noah's wife.
And since Gen 4 says that Jabal & Jubal are the fathers of all nomadic herders and musical instrument makers, therefore none of their family members were drowned.

Jubal in Genesis 4 is the son of Lamech and Adah; a descendant of Cain. He is said to be the founder of all those who handle the harp and the pipe, and may have invented both stringed and wind instruments, or could be he founded’ a profession, which gave considerable impetus to the progress of music. Genesis 4:17-21

 

[ppp]

And depends if you prefer to believe what the Hebrew bible actually says, or the NIV fantasies and the other scams.

Q: Are you going to present specific citations from the scholarly consensus, or not?
A: Not.

 

[YoursTrue]

The seperate stories in Gen 4 & 5, however, say that they were Noah's younger brothers (Gen 5:30), along with their sister, Naamah, who was Noah's wife.
And since Gen 4 says that Jabal & Jubal are the fathers of all nomadic herders and musical instrument makers, therefore obviously none of their family members were drowned since Noah wasn't the father of all nomadic herders or musical instrument makers.

What Bible are you using, I don't see what you're saying at Genesis 5:30.

 

[Monty]

What Bible are you using, I don't see what you're saying at Genesis 5:30.

It says that Noah had brothers and sisters, and that some of them are named in the Gen 4 story (Gen 4:19-22), including his wife Naamah.

 

[Monty]

Q: Are you going to present specific citations from the scholarly consensus, or not?
A: Not.

The scholarly consensus is what the Hebrew text actually says and means and as discussed by any rabbi or reputable Hebrew scholar, which is that the Hebrew text says that the flood height was only 15 cubits.
But it's your choice if you don't believe what the bible actually says and means, and prefer the absurd fantasies in the NIV etc which claim that kangaroos and echidnas are native to the Middle East.

 

[Monty]

Jubal in Genesis 4 is the son of Lamech and Adah; a descendant of Cain. He is said to be the founder of all those who handle the harp and the pipe, and may have invented both stringed and wind instruments, or could be he founded’ a profession, which gave considerable impetus to the progress of music. Genesis 4:17-21

IOW he and his family weren't drowned with other members of his and Noah's family.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The above bold confirms my conclusions

I do not agree with your translation, but the micrometer of water is a laughable assumption based on the scripture. OK. but your citation of floods as all floods in history do not qualify, because none covered the hills where olive trees grow and mountain tops. If you cover mountains the hills where olive trees grow would be covered by many cubits of water.

In my long geologic career (a couple of years working as a student for the Minnesota Geological Survey) I gathered data, and put into a form that could be entered into a data base. I would not call that "geology". I was a part of a project but at the lowest level. At any rate we were working in the Fargo-Moorhead area. Actually Moorhead since that is in Minnesota. It was the bottom of a glacial lake. And now it it a place where you can stand up and measure the curvature of the Earth. There might be one topo line ins a 7.5 minute map. For elevation they had the height in feet at the center of each square mile. A five foot rise was famous for miles around as "the hill". That was how we found one place. I could see what would be low hill to you and me being called a "mountain". 22 feet might seem to be quite tall.

But I do not think that those people were that inexperienced, but it could happen.

 

[YoursTrue]

IOW he and his family weren't drowned with other members of his and Noah's family.

That's not what it says. Can you please give the exact scriptures that detail what you are talking about so I have a better understanding of what you are saying?

 

[Monty]

That's not what it says. Can you please give the exact scriptures that detail what you are talking about so I have a better understanding of what you are saying?

Simple common sense says that Noah's brothers Jabal and Jubal and their families weren't drowned with their other family members since the bible says that they are the fathers of all nomadic herders and musical instrument players (Gen 4:20-21). And if they had drowned with the rest of their family then they wouldn't have been described as the fathers of all nomadic herders and musical instrument players. And in a similar way the bible says that an olive tree wasn't affected by the flood either (Gen 8:11) since it was just a local flood which was only 15 cubits high.