Evidence of the Non-Physical

[DNB]

Except it wasn't, you demonstrated no knowledge at all, just showed that you couldn't. As indeed you've done here again. You may find these inane responses somehow satisfying, but the fact is you are not engaging in debate, merely avoiding it, and it is patently obvious why.

What objective evidence can you demonstrate for any deity or deities?

If you feel that is an unfair benchmark, then you could at least demonstrate the best or most compelling reason you think you have. If after that all you have is bare subjective opinions, well what will you have lost? I will remain an atheist, this is hardly of any concern to anyone else, and nothing will have changed.

Why so many temples, altars, sanctuaries, shrines and places of worship all over the world? Why so much money, war, ostracization, excommunication, blood-sweat-and-tears over something that doesn't exist?
That is, is all the world in such a harmonious and symbiotic relation between all the inhabitants and entities within it's realm, except that man, the highest in intellect, is a flippin' moron?

 

[DNB]

Really it took me two clicks of my mouse...
Then why pretend you didn't know? Then again what can one expect from anyone who thinks bigotry and prejudice, based on the morals of bronze and iron age patriarchal Bedouins, is enlightened.

I couldn't find the quote that i wanted in order to copy it here, but i recalled the context. Why the flippin' heck are you being so unnecessarily difficult? Nothing but baseless cavils coming from you.
Nothing is new under the sun, only technology has changed. A greedy man in the 4th century BC, has the exact same motives, inclinations and impulses as a modern day greedy person. The lascivious and avaricious behaviour of the 1st century Romans, is identical to those of the hedonists today. The mind and attitude of Plato and Aristotle, resembled entirely those of our contemporary philosophers. Standards of antiquity may have changed in appearance in this modern age, but the hearts and minds of the people have not.
In other words, although we have become extremely permissive in this society and consequently desensitized, personalities, desires and motivations have not. The gang-banger in the past, who may have been an ostracized and obscure personality, is now glorified in the most audacious manner. The same with the porn star. The attitudes are the same, the expression is different.

Whatever precepts and statutes that God implemented in the past, have their significant principles that remain for perpetuity.

 

[DNB]

So what? Is it ever moral for one human to buy or own another or not?



Against a vile notion like slavery? Yes I am very biased, as it is a pernicious moral turpitude.



Sophistry, it's not the word I object to, and that is demonstrable in this exchange, and in Exodus 21 that specifically endorse slavery. Which you obviously won't condemn, as you are blind to any rational or moral reason that remotely contradicts it.



You showed no such thing, and I can and have read Exodus 21 myself, so your sophistry here is fooling no one.



You don't seem to understand this is a public debate forum, and not pulpit. You don't get to make claims and espouse beliefs unchallenged in here. The barbarity of the deity depicted in the bible is open to critical scrutiny, as are the bible's claims. Your vapid platitudes are no use here, as they have no meaning to those who don't share your beliefs.

Am I talking to a wall?

 

[ratiocinator]

How is it that atheists understand what the word God means, if it's nothing more than a man-made construct?

Actually the word 'God', without further explanation, is pretty meaningless because it means so many different and contradictory things depending on what variety of theist one consults. However, what on earth do you imagine the problem is with understanding what human-made constructs mean? I know what astrology is, despite it being a nonsensical and ludicrous superstition.

Why do the discussions between a theist and atheist become so protracted, if the only argumentation required is to suggest that the theist consult a shrink?

Would you? The problem is that beliefs (even completely irrational ones) become entrenched in societies and tend to affect even those of us who can see through them.

 

[ratiocinator]

Why so many temples, altars, sanctuaries, shrines and places of worship all over the world? Why so much money, war, ostracization, excommunication, blood-sweat-and-tears over something that doesn't exist?

At the very least most of the people who believed in the thousands of gods that humans have made up of history, because they contradict each other. If there were an actual real god or gods, and they wanted anything to do with humanity, why wouldn't it or they just make their existence and nature clear to all?

Human history is riddled with baseless superstitions and irrational beliefs.

 

[rational experiences]

If the scientists ego would listen.

Any human living today was created by human sex only.

No other science defined meaning.

Two humans as humans living who had sex.

Now if you theory which you do. You think in your own human head about a topic of choice....when no two humans existed.

Nothingness is the conscious answer for a humans biological living life presence history. To think. Think bio consciously. To think correctly.

So just the life now has to own telling a human truth. Was a human understanding about human bad behaviour of choice.

As an adult maybe you are forty two years old.

Owning an adult life human body for about twenty two years.

Before your adult body you were a sperm ovary developing human.

First using numbers owning bio age conscious life presence thinking.

Now do you liar scientist use the correct human scientific definition first?

No says the lying community of just human egotists.

Is why you are as bible stated our destroyer.

Pretty obviously stated.

 

[muhammad_isa]

No says the lying community of just human egotists.
Is why you are as bible stated our destroyer.
Pretty obviously stated.

Not obvious to everybody, it seems.

..but yes .. armageddon is just round the corner.
It can't be stopped .. mankind's love of wealth and power is destructive.

 

[rational experiences]

Not obvious to everybody, it seems.

..but yes .. armageddon is just round the corner.
It can't be stopped .. mankind's love of wealth and power is destructive.

O earth owns no corner.

If you used brain power O a circle is as formed place to withdraw from as and by held space lAw has no corners.

Men built the power of God nuclear and held it inside of contained metals. Calculus only squaring owning corners. Wield it as a threat... God he says will destroy you.

Then tries to convince natural life that God did it to you. When men liars just human are our destroyer.

Just a human in natural life. Is just a natural human first. Just using a natural human conscious in a natural human first highest life natural status.

Thinks not as a just a natural human is a liar destroyer just the liar scientist.

To be natural is to think natural also.

 

[DNB]

Actually the word 'God', without further explanation, is pretty meaningless because it means so many different and contradictory things depending on what variety of theist one consults. However, what on earth do you imagine the problem is with understanding what human-made constructs mean? I know what astrology is, despite it being a nonsensical and ludicrous superstition.


Would you? The problem is that beliefs (even completely irrational ones) become entrenched in societies and tend to affect even those of us who can see through them.

God is a personal and moral agent, who transcends the secular, is incorruptible, immutable, holy and infallible. Is omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient. These abstract concepts are comprehended by all humans (not the magnitude but the principle), but are entirely unfathomable to all other living creatures on earth. Astrology is a science, it's not the same comparison.

The landslide majority of humans who have ever lived, have believed in a spiritual realm ever since time began. And, have devoted the majority of their lives, and have built societies and laws around these beliefs. And yet, according to you, the patent minority are the only ones who can see through them?
...maybe it's the other way around; you need to start opening up your eyes, and quit believing that simply because you cannot quantify something, it does not exist.

 

[DNB]

At the very least most of the people who believed in the thousands of gods that humans have made up of history, because they contradict each other. If there were an actual real god or gods, and they wanted anything to do with humanity, why wouldn't it or they just make their existence and nature clear to all?

Human history is riddled with baseless superstitions and irrational beliefs.

Free will demands that one desires God. God has employed discretion in his creation in order to separate the defiant from the zealous. God's Kingdom must be earned, we cannot fathom the glory that God has in store for those who prove to be faithful, and devoted to the cause of knowing and loving Him.

 

[ratiocinator]

God is a personal and moral agent, who transcends the secular, is incorruptible, immutable, holy and infallible. Is omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient. These abstract concepts are comprehended by all humans (not the magnitude but the principle), but are entirely unfathomable to all other living creatures on earth.

So what, exactly?

Astrology is a science, it's not the same comparison.

No, astrology is not a science (perhaps you're confusing it with astronomy). Astrology is superstitious nonsense, which is why I made the comparison to god(s). Nevertheless, exactly the same thing applies to both, in that they are not understood by other living creatures, so again, what point are you trying to make?

The landslide majority of humans who have ever lived, have believed in a spiritual realm ever since time began. And, have devoted the majority of their lives, and have built societies and laws around these beliefs. And yet, according to you, the patent minority are the only ones who can see through them?

There weren't any humans when time began (even if it did), however, especially before science people made up stories to 'explain' things and (as I pointed out before) the tendency to see agency where there none exists a well known cognitive bias, one that isn't unique to human animals. There is a more detailed discussion of the whole phenomenon in Breaking the Spell by Daniel Dennett.

Free will demands that one desires God. God has employed discretion in his creation in order to separate the defiant from the zealous.

Free will is a nonsensical concept with respect to the sort of god you described above. Even if it wasn't, why are the vast majority of people throughout history so mistaken in not believing in the same god as you do? In fact, what about those who never even heard about it? It would make god entirely unjust and unfair to play such a cruel game of hide-and-seek.

 

[rational experiences]

Men preach.

As humans two types of preaching is preached by just human men.

One preaching says you own personally as human life the immaculate support....
Science does not own it.

A scientist preaching. I thesis any type of presence. By my say so. By my organised group.

Two variations to a claim of I own.

Now if men had to preach did you forget that Rock O earth planet God gave birth to the immaculate.

You theist claiming beginnings there wasn't any immaculate in any beginning.

Are a 100 per cent human theist liar in science. As a false preacher of man human ownership status.

So Mr egotist rich man. Make the choice. Are you the true false preacher claiming science can own the immaculate? As a fake beginning thesis.

Or

Are you the human who says natural life is supported by the conditions spoken about as the immaculate? Everyone is supported by. A law of created creation. As we live within its terms.

Why it was stated gods.

 

[Sheldon]

How is it that atheists understand what the word God means, if it's nothing more than a man-made construct?

I'm going out on a limb, and suggest it's because they can read.

 

[Sheldon]

Astrology is a science,

No it certainly is not, please tell me you're kidding? It's woo woo chicanery.

 

[Sheldon]

Free will demands that one desires God.

No it doesn't.

God has employed discretion in his creation in order to separate the defiant from the zealous.

This deity's discretion seems to involve that deity letting small children suffer and die from terrible diseases.

God's Kingdom must be earned,

You might as well train a wizard, there's the same evidence.

we cannot fathom the glory that God has in store for those who prove to be faithful, and devoted to the cause of knowing and loving Him.

Well I don't believe in any deity, but it seems as likely if a deity existed he's playing some sort of game with his pets, maybe trying to weed out the gullible? According to your bible he tortured Job in just such a fashion, and just to win a bet,

Personally I'm glad there's no objective evidence your deity is any more real than any of the others.

 

[joelr]

We all deserve to die as much as the Amorites, Hittites, Jebusites and Canaanites. In other words, the only reason that we're all still alive is because of God's mercy. So, yes, God's ordaining the slaughter and genocide of many nations was only due to the fact, as it is written, because he was patient and gave them centuries to repent (Genesis 15:16). But, their crimes were beyond heinous and precluded absolution.

Is what the myth says. As we now know zero historians believe this is historical but was written from myths and legends. Turns out, the Canaanites have been studied and they were not evil, had a similar religious system, were simple farmers, honered their dead and parents were highly respected.
Dr Josh Bowen Assyrologist has videos speaking on the Canaanites.

Still, the story is ridiculous. As if a God actually showed up and was like "everyone shape up or I'll destroy you all" and the people were like "nah, he's bluffing..." The Israelites hated those other cities because they were in competition with them. Those stories are myths. You just quoted Genesis? That is known to be a late work, way after the fact and written using older stories? Outside of brainwashed people those are not considered actual events.

Religion Identity and the Origins of Ancient Israel.


KL Sparks, PhD Hebrew Bible, Baptist Pastor,

As a rule, modern scholars do not believe that the Bible’s account of early Israel’s history provides a wholly accurate portrait of Israels origins. One reason for this is that the earliest part of Israel’s history in Genesis is now regarded as something other than a work of modern history. It’s primary author was at best an ancient historian (if a historian at all) who lived long after the events he narrated, and who drew freely from sources that were not historical (legends and theological stories), he was more concerned with theology than with the modern quest to learn “what actually happened” (Van Seters 1992; Sparks 2002 pp. 37-71)

Slaves were treated as family, the Law reflects the relationship between a master and a slave - offering the slave the option to remain with his master if he, out of love, feels so compelled.

You've entirely misunderstood the context and deeper significance of these occurrences in the Bible.

Wow, you are delusional. after 7 years if the slave had been given a wife and also had children with the wife, when his term was up he had to LEAVE HIS WIFE AND CHILDREN???!???!
Unless he declared he "loved" his master then he could stay with his wife and child. THEN, he was a permanent slave. Disgusting. You are awful for making light of a horrific law.
Obviously a God did not dictate this (unless it was sadistic and hated slaves) but men did so when they had a debt servant all they had to do during the 6 years is buy a woman slave and give her to the man slave and say "I got you a wife". Obviously he's going to have children. Then at the end of term no father is going to leave their children so he has no choice to be a permanent slave. It's a workaround and is highly immoral.


Male Hebrews could sell themselves into slavery for a six-year period to eliminate their debts, after which they might go free. However, if the male slave had been given a wife and had had children with her, they would remain his master's property. They could only stay with their family by becoming permanent slaves (Exodus 21:2-5). Evangelical Christians, especially those who subscribe to Biblical inerrancy, will commonly emphasize this debt bondage and try to minimize the other forms of race-based chattel slavery when attempting to excuse the Bible for endorsing slavery.


Some day when you grow up and have an actual family you imagine leaving your slave job but having to leave your wife and kids behind with the master to do what he will? Gross.
Who has brainwashed you that bad?


Exodus 21:20-21 (NASB): 20If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. 21If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property.

 

[muhammad_isa]

According to your bible he tortured Job in just such a fashion..

No..
G-d tortures nobody. G-d allows evil in this world.
It is a necessary component of free-will.

We all like pleasure and dislike pain, for obvious reasons.
Intensity of pain and suffering is relative.
It can be mild, or it can be excruciating .. physically and mentally.
..yet this life is temporary. Evil cannot touch a believer for ever.
..even if they are habitually oppressed, they will eventually die .. and the sequel is bliss.

 

[Sheldon]

No..
G-d tortures nobody. G-d allows evil in this world.
It is a necessary component of free-will.

We all like pleasure and dislike pain, for obvious reasons.
Intensity of pain and suffering is relative.
It can be mild, or it can be excruciating .. physically and mentally.
..yet this life is temporary. Evil cannot touch a believer for ever.
..even if they are habitually oppressed, they will eventually die .. and the sequel is bliss.

Actually the bible depicted a deity that tortured King David's new born baby son to death, over 7 days.

 

[rational experiences]

The God men discuss is a man scientist theist about the God presence. Humans tell all God statements as the owner thinker theist...I am a man of God theism he confessed.

Now.

Solids. Created forms. Evolved presence.

Life they taught is a gift present now.

Not before. Not billions of years away...not in any future....now.

Instant.

Men of science said law.

God O earth the planet is present. No argument. How dare you say it never existed. Already argued.

Evil minds evil men's minds evil theisms.

Consciousness. Biological inside of a heavens state only. You own life. It is instant. To live in the state taught as holy human support.

Thoughts.

Biology however said sex was the sin that brought humans biologically into life to think instantly ignored.

Present. Presence only.

No scientific theist allowed to argue. No man is God the planet forms. No man is God.

Man theoried science is now possessed by its human expressed idealism.

Said D AVI D was Phi.

You have to be a man to think about Phi to then apply calculus as a biological spiritual aware psyche to know and identify. A man. It takes two men to agree...brothers.

Proven by healer human wisdom.

A man owned no name but man. The name man is every man first. Gods name said man is man. Man is named.

No argument allowed.

Phi he said was a man's descriptive assessment by thin KING how and why my life adult man father status hurt my life future baby man son.

Born only by human sex. Holy human mother. No other science mother term allowed.

Sacrificed baby son life of human continuance said my baby life my mother human holy life sacrificed because of man the adult scientist liar.

Unholy brothers the teaching brother hood.

Meaning men's minds psyche who brain mind changed by the earth's heavens mantle father cloak...hooded inference darkness secrecy in thoughts changed ideas.

Men in science terms.

King head mind thin king of gods earth jewel el power God stone that earth owned. O God owned all power all wealth all jewels....never man.

Man said I stole it to be a rich man.. as life of man with God was equal.

Event science technology dust conversion changed into mind conscious brain prickling irradiated attacked. Life blood cell bones sacrificed. Life survived lived changed since in DNA genesis that was changed removed.

Theme.....earths holy water baptism life mind head body protection was taken. By earths crossing as two seasonal... Balances removed.
Two variations iced poles versus equator. Above and below...side to side.

+ Gods balanced cross seasonal controls.

Why it says if you science converter of gods dusts stopped. O God earth the seasons owned by O earth will rebalance guarantee proper season and good growth of food.

Ignore the teaching food will be removed by causes. ...bush burning conditions sin hole opening ground mass changes root support.

Tree supporting life is ground rooted. Dirt converts into a salted sand state. Chemical conversion the desert takes over.

The wilderness introduced by scientific calculus numbers versus gods body fusion. Holy Sion they said.

Science reads the bible knows it's true. Instead of supporting nature invents his ways of I will be prepared when I cause it.

Proof he is our known destroyer.

 

[DNB]

So what, exactly?


No, astrology is not a science (perhaps you're confusing it with astronomy). Astrology is superstitious nonsense, which is why I made the comparison to god(s). Nevertheless, exactly the same thing applies to both, in that they are not understood by other living creatures, so again, what point are you trying to make?


There weren't any humans when time began (even if it did), however, especially before science people made up stories to 'explain' things and (as I pointed out before) the tendency to see agency where there none exists a well known cognitive bias, one that isn't unique to human animals. There is a more detailed discussion of the whole phenomenon in Breaking the Spell by Daniel Dennett.


Free will is a nonsensical concept with respect to the sort of god you described above. Even if it wasn't, why are the vast majority of people throughout history so mistaken in not believing in the same god as you do? In fact, what about those who never even heard about it? It would make god entirely unjust and unfair to play such a cruel game of hide-and-seek.

Astrology is a science, it's based on the revolution and orientation of the planets, and it physical affects on the human development in the womb. It is calculated by mathematical equations and other quantifiable means.