Evolution and Creationism: because ...

[Parsimony]

Yes, I can judge a truth, by it's utility. I see that evolution has no utility compared to creationism, it has done no good.

As I've said before in this very thread, how good or bad something is has nothing to do with whether it is true or not. It's as sensible as denying gravity on the grounds that, if gravity existed, then it would be possible for people to fall to their death.

GMO's case in point. Evolutionists eating organic food? Action speaks louder than words, they don't trust their own genetic engineers.

I'm not sure why you are linking GMOs with evolutionists. Genetic engineering is not the same thing as natural evolution at all.

The rabbi said these famous words, "Even if one proved there is no God, it is still better to believe."

How can someone possibly believe something that they know isn't true?

 

[Brian Schuh]

This is a non sequitur. If I admitted that there is a god that disapproves flesh eating, then I would probably become a vegetarian. Which would be good news for pigs, but bad news for lettuce, But that is definetely insufficient evidence that such a god exist. It is just evidence that I was convinced that He does, in fact, exists.

By the way, I think the God of the Bible is a bad example for alcoholics, if we consider that the only righteous person in the whole Universe at a certain moment of time, was a drunkyard.

Ciao

- viole

You don't understand addiction. Bill Wilson had a Higher Power, probably not the God of the Bible.

For an alcoholic like Bill Wilson to quit drinking, would be like me changing the color of my skin. He was hopeless. Anyone can quit eating meat, but people are quitting heroin, cocaine, tobacco, gambling, sex addiction, etc through Bill Wilson's message of a Higher Power.

 

[viole]

You don't understand addiction. Bill Wilson had a Higher Power, probably not the God of the Bible.

For an alcoholic like Bill Wilson to quit drinking, would be like me changing the color of my skin. He was hopeless. Anyone can quit eating meat, but people are quitting heroin, cocaine, tobacco, gambling, sex addiction, etc through Bill Wilson's message of a Higher Power.

Yet, if I believed such a Higher Power existed, and He disapproves X, I would probably stop with X. Your bar between miracles and not miracles is a bit low, I think. You do not really need the suspension of the laws of nature, to stop smoking or drinking. You would have a point if God magically turned any shot of Vodka into a shot of Sprite.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Brian Schuh]

I am right, you all are wrong, it is not up to further debate. You can't change my mind, I believe y'all have some emotional need to push your belief on others who won't be convinced. I don't care what you believe. I do care that you won't just keep your belief to yourself. Don't quote my posts anymore.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I am right, you all are wrong, it is not up to further debate. You can't change my mind, I believe y'all have some emotional need to push your belief on others who won't be convinced. I don't care what you believe. I do care that you won't just keep your belief to yourself. Don't quote my posts anymore.

This forum isn't for keeping one's belief to themselves. You accuse others of pushing their beliefs on you, but you head your post with 'I am right, you are wrong.' If you can't even bear to have your beliefs questioned, maybe this isn't the right website for you.

 

[Skwim]

I am right, you all are wrong, it is not up to further debate. You can't change my mind, I believe y'all have some emotional need to push your belief on others who won't be convinced. I don't care what you believe. I do care that you won't just keep your belief to yourself. Don't quote my posts anymore.

So, just why are you here in a debate forum, to preach to the choir?


.

 

[Sapiens]

...

A rabbi was sitting with his family and students, listening to WWII on a radio, hiding out in a basement in Germany. A teenage girl asked him, "What if Nietzsche did prove God is dead?"

The rabbi said these famous words, "Even if one proved there is no God, it is still better to believe."

So famous that I can not source it anywhere on the internet.

No, Bill Wilson has gone down in history as a cofounder of AA. But I am pointing at the book he compiled from 100 alcoholics' experience, 75 of them quit drinking, to show that just by admitting there might be a Creator, miracles follow. Miracles don't happen through fantasy.

... and I am an atheist who never started, who has it better?

You don't understand addiction. Bill Wilson had a Higher Power, probably not the God of the Bible.

For an alcoholic like Bill Wilson to quit drinking, would be like me changing the color of my skin. He was hopeless. Anyone can quit eating meat, but people are quitting heroin, cocaine, tobacco, gambling, sex addiction, etc through Bill Wilson's message of a Higher Power.

... or not start through the power of understanding biology.

I was badly injured and came out of the hospital craving morphine. That was 30 years ago and I still have a wistful craving for it, an itch that I never scratch. I need no invisible friend, just a knowledge of what addiction is and how it works. Real power comes from inside yourself and is based on knowledge and understanding. Most people can't handle that "truth" because it requires that they are actually responsible.

I am looking at 'We Agnostics " in the Big Book of AA. Whether or not you have any addictive behavior, you can't deny that Bill Wilson, a most hopeless alcoholic quit drinking by merely admitting the possibility of a Creator, making a big step from athiest to agnostic. And it changed his life. Does your 'reality' have that power?

My reality has the power to not start in the first place. That's infinitely more powerful than the "frog in a well" possibility of recovery that surrendering to a higher power offers.

Yes, I can judge a truth, by it's utility. I see that evolution has no utility compared to creationism, it has done no good. GMO's case in point. Evolutionists eating organic food? Action speaks louder than words, they don't trust their own genetic engineers.

Avoiding GMOs and eating organic is the result of a knowledge of the TOE, not in spite of it as you are mistakenly suggesting.

I am right, you all are wrong, it is not up to further debate. You can't change my mind, I believe y'all have some emotional need to push your belief on others who won't be convinced. I don't care what you believe. I do care that you won't just keep your belief to yourself. Don't quote my posts anymore.

Quick! Set up the board! Time to play Pigeon Chess.

 

[Parsimony]

I am right, you all are wrong, it is not up to further debate.

Well that certainly settles it!

You can't change my mind

Is this a sign of an open mind or a closed mind?

I believe y'all have some emotional need to push your belief on others who won't be convinced.

More often than not these days, I only speak in defense of evolution when it is criticized. When someone criticizes it with flawed reasoning or a misconception, I sometimes feel compelled to correct it. You should also realize that the "Evolution vs. Creationism" forum is a debate forum. These kinds of things are to be expected. If I just met you on the street and all you did was tell me that you were a young Earth creationist, I wouldn't be combative about it. On the other hand, if you were trying to convince me that young Earth creationism was correct, then you've basically started a debate and I would feel compelled to respond in like manner. What's so wrong with that?

I don't care what you believe.

Then why debate about it at all?

I do care that you won't just keep your belief to yourself.

You certainly haven't kept your beliefs to yourself either. You've stated multiple times that you don't accept macroevolution or an old Earth. How's that any different from us stating our beliefs?

Don't quote my posts anymore.

You're free to ignore our quoting of your posts.

 

[McBell]

Whatever.

You have not presetned anything but bold empty claims.
Until you present something other than bold empty claims, your bold empty claims can be dismissed as nothing more than wishful thinking.

So now the question is: how important to you is your agenda?
Important enough to support your claims?

 

[McBell]

Pro lifers dig up evidence all the time. They dig aborted embryos out of garbage, and put them on display right in front of Planned Parenthood. They are starting to force the release of medical charts. Closing your eyes to America's Holocaust against the unborn is more heinous than failing to learn evolution.

YOU have not presented anything other than bold empty claims.

What, you want everyone else to do your homework for you?
seems your laziness is more important than your agenda.....

 

[McBell]

So, just why are you here in a debate forum, to preach to the choir?


.

and get ***** with those who call his bull **** bull ****....

 

[SkepticThinker]

The question is whether schizophrenics should be allowed to carry their "defective" genes onto the next generation.

Has anyone here said that they shouldn't?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Some people want to cut all welfare and Social Security and social programs and see who is fit to survive by natural selection. My former rabbi collects WIC and food stamps and had 5 boys.

When the new nazis complain about welfare recipients raising babies on their tax dollars, I get mad and laugh at the same time. You can't stop it.

Who are the "new nazis?"

 

[SkepticThinker]

If I never have children, my books and manuscripts with my schizophrenic thought will produce more schizophrenics after I'm dead. It isn't genetic. They say schizophrenia isn't contagious, but I know better. A way of thinking can be passed on.

The evidence shows that there is a genetic component. There is no evidence it's contagious.

Why do you think it's a "way of thinking?"

 

[SkepticThinker]

Yes, I can judge a truth, by it's utility. I see that evolution has no utility compared to creationism, it has done no good. GMO's case in point. Evolutionists eating organic food? Action speaks louder than words, they don't trust their own genetic engineers.

I gave you some examples but you seem to have either missed or ignored them.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I am looking at 'We Agnostics " in the Big Book of AA. Whether or not you have any addictive behavior, you can't deny that Bill Wilson, a most hopeless alcoholic quit drinking by merely admitting the possibility of a Creator, making a big step from athiest to agnostic. And it changed his life. Does your 'reality' have that power?

There are people who remain abstinent from alcohol without any god beliefs. So yes, my reality does have that power.

 

[SkepticThinker]

No, Bill Wilson has gone down in history as a cofounder of AA. But I am pointing at the book he compiled from 100 alcoholics' experience, 75 of them quit drinking, to show that just by admitting there might be a Creator, miracles follow. Miracles don't happen through fantasy.

That's quite an oversimplification, I think. There's a bit more to AA than that. The therapeutic component (e.g. Sharing experiences and struggles with peers, taking responsibility for oneself, altering patterns and routines that may lead to relapse, etc.) has a thing or two to do with maintaining sobriety. There's a lot more to it than mere belief in some creator.

 

[Brian Schuh]

How can I say this so y'all understand? I'm not in this debate anymore. Stop quoting me. There are other debates in this forum that are actually interesting. I didn't mean you are wrong in your belief, but you are wrong to push it on others. And of course preachers preach to the choir, sometimes a preacher will to his bathroom mirror like any other public speaker to see how he comes across.

Leave it alone, I told you all very good reasons why I believe what I believe. I'm out of this debate. Don't quote me.

My great great grandfather, a Native American Yankee Civil War hero, John Killingsworth is famous, so famous that I didn't even know he was famous.

Not all people can know all things. Why would an unbeliever know a famous quote by a rabbi?

I'm out of this.

 

[Sapiens]

How can I say this so y'all understand? I'm not in this debate anymore. Stop quoting me. There are other debates in this forum that are actually interesting. I didn't mean you are wrong in your belief, but you are wrong to push it on others. And of course preachers preach to the choir, sometimes a preacher will to his bathroom mirror like any other public speaker to see how he comes across.

You can choose not to participate.
You can put everyone on ignore.
You can leave the site.

You can not demand that people refrain from quoting you. Sorry.

Leave it alone, I told you all very good reasons why I believe what I believe. I'm out of this debate. Don't quote me.

As has been said, you have a right to your own opinions, but not to your own facts.

My great great grandfather, a Native American Yankee Civil War hero, John Killingsworth is famous, so famous that I didn't even know he was famous.

Everyones' got famous ancestors. If you go back 32 generations were all related. So you claim anyone prior to 1300 or so who had kids.

Not all people can know all things. Why would an unbeliever know a famous quote by a rabbi?

Isn't that the definition of the difference between "famous" and "well know in his tiny community?"

I'm out of this.

Bye.

 

[Brian Schuh]

You can choose not to participate.
You can put everyone on ignore.
You can leave the site.

You can not demand that people refrain from quoting you. Sorry.
As has been said, you have a right to your own opinions, but not to your own facts.
Everyones' got famous ancestors. If you go back 32 generations were all related. So you claim anyone prior to 1300 or so who had kids.
Isn't that the definition of the difference between "famous" and "well know in his tiny community?"
Bye.

You can choose not to participate.
You can put everyone on ignore.
You can leave the site.

You can not demand that people refrain from quoting you. Sorry.
As has been said, you have a right to your own opinions, but not to your own facts.
Everyones' got famous ancestors. If you go back 32 generations were all related. So you claim anyone prior to 1300 or so who had kids.
Isn't that the definition of the difference between "famous" and "well know in his tiny community?"
Bye.

Look, I apologize to everyone. Creationism isn't one of the Noahide 5 principles of faith. The pope does lip service to the Creator by saying the Big Bang was the moment of Creation. It doesn't matter if we agree or not. One can be a good Noahide as long as he believes in a First Cause, a Prime Mover. I have been pushing a principle of faith, I should not push. It isn't essential to my faith.