Evolution and Creationism: because ...

[Brian Schuh]

I've always wondered how micro changes know when to stop occurring, so as to avoid becoming macro changes, for example, how do creationists explain ring speciation?

There's more to the controversy than a genetic dispute. It's a clash of world-views, a metaphysical debate over a magical world focused on humankind vs a cold, uncaring, mechanistic universe where our species has no special mystical significance.

All the facts can be manipulated to support either world view. Creationists and evolutionists use all the same evidence.

You are absolutely right. One man lives in a magical, mystical and meaningful world, while another lives in a cold world with no Creator who gives a damn.

You said it better than me.

 

[Valjean]

Exactly. Some prefer fantasy, some reality.

 

[Brian Schuh]

Exactly. Some prefer fantasy, some reality.

I am looking at 'We Agnostics " in the Big Book of AA. Whether or not you have any addictive behavior, you can't deny that Bill Wilson, a most hopeless alcoholic quit drinking by merely admitting the possibility of a Creator, making a big step from athiest to agnostic. And it changed his life. Does your 'reality' have that power?

 

[Valjean]

You judge reality by it's utility?
And what does lava have to do with anything?

 

[Brian Schuh]

Joseph Campbell wrote, "The Power of Myth." There is a certain truth in myth.

 

[Brian Schuh]

You judge reality by it's utility?
And what does lava have to do with anything?

Well, lava has something to do with the price of tea in China.

 

[Brian Schuh]

Yes, I can judge a truth, by it's utility. I see that evolution has no utility compared to creationism, it has done no good. GMO's case in point. Evolutionists eating organic food? Action speaks louder than words, they don't trust their own genetic engineers.

 

[idav]

Yes, I can judge a truth, by it's utility. I see that evolution has no utility compared to creationism, it has done no good. GMO's case in point. Evolutionists eating organic food? Action speaks louder than words, they don't trust their own genetic engineers.

Evolution shows that all of life is related, not just humans, but let's not pretend that believing all humans are brothers makes much a difference either, people still kill their own brothers, even "creationists".

 

[Valjean]

There's subjective truth and there's actual truth.
Some prefer reality, even if there's no comfort in it.

 

[Valjean]

Utility? Utility has nothing to do with truth.
I think we're talking apples and air conditioners.

 

[Valjean]

Well, lava has something to do with the price of tea in China.

But you're the one who brought up aa.

 

[Brian Schuh]

Nietzsche was said at one time to have proved that there is no God. The New York Times published in bold letters, GOD IS DEAD.

A rabbi was sitting with his family and students, listening to WWII on a radio, hiding out in a basement in Germany. A teenage girl asked him, "What if Nietzsche did prove God is dead?"

The rabbi said these famous words, "Even if one proved there is no God, it is still better to believe."

 

[Brian Schuh]

But you're the one who brought up aa.

No I did not bring up AA. I mentioned Bill Wilson as an example of a man whose life radically changed for the better just by admitting there might be a Creator. I could have mentioned millions of others.

 

[idav]

Nietzsche was said at one time to have proved that there is no God. The New York Times published in bold letters, GOD IS DEAD.

A rabbi was sitting with his family and students, listening to WWII on a radio, hiding out in a basement in Germany. A teenage girl asked him, "What if Nietzsche did prove God is dead?"

The rabbi said these famous words, "Even if one proved there is no God, it is still better to believe."

Yeah that's true for a rabbi, for a radical extremist, not so much, certainly not better for the neighbors of said extremists.

 

[Brian Schuh]

Utility? Utility has nothing to do with truth.
I think we're talking apples and air conditioners.

For something to be truth, it needs to be more than just factual.

You take the air conditioner, I'll take the apples.

 

[Brian Schuh]

Yeah that's true for a rabbi, for a radical extremist, not so much, certainly not better for the neighbors of said extremists.

And also true for Bill Wilson. Pretty much true for everyone.

 

[Brian Schuh]

But you're the one who brought up aa.

No, Bill Wilson has gone down in history as a cofounder of AA. But I am pointing at the book he compiled from 100 alcoholics' experience, 75 of them quit drinking, to show that just by admitting there might be a Creator, miracles follow. Miracles don't happen through fantasy.

 

[Valjean]

For something to be truth, it needs to be more than just factual.

No. It need only be factual.
You have an entirely different definition of "truth" than most of us.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Yes, I can judge a truth, by it's utility. I see that evolution has no utility compared to creationism, it has done no good. GMO's case in point. Evolutionists eating organic food? Action speaks louder than words, they don't trust their own genetic engineers.

If I have a relative fall ill, and there is no medical hope for the person, I can think of a very high utility for a magical curative answer (unicorns, magic potions, prayer, whichever). The usefulness of those things don't make them more true, and I end up wasting time on fancies rather than addressing the sad truth of my relative's illness and preparing accordingly.

I do not suffer in my belief that there's probably no gods or afterlife. I merely enjoy my life and the world in its brevity, instead of treating it like a weigh-station to the next.

As for GMO and evolution, there's not really a connection between the two. While genetics is important to evolutionary study, not all genetics study is evolutionary science. What makes GMO food is not a process of evolution but artificial selection, no different than what agriculture has been doing since the dawn of its existence. Just faster. I don't mind GMO foods so long as it's done responsibly, just like other agriculture. Making a GMO food that is both hard to contain and a threat to native species bugs me about as much as making chickens, pigs and cows through selective breeding who suffer under the weight of deformities which makes more muscles in the right place. But when GMO is done right it can and has made hardier crops which need less pesticide, last longer in transportation, can live in arid climates. The net gain is GMO cereals have prevented thousands of starvation cases.
But, again, nothing to do with evolution.
As for evolution's actual utility in day-to-day, evolution has a ton of practical value. It's from evolutionary biology that bring us our largest medical science industries like bioinformatics (billion dollar industry) and medical genetics (immunology, microbiology, morphogenesis). Which has provided lifesaving treatment for many more thousands.

 

[viole]

No, Bill Wilson has gone down in history as a cofounder of AA. But I am pointing at the book he compiled from 100 alcoholics' experience, 75 of them quit drinking, to show that just by admitting there might be a Creator, miracles follow. Miracles don't happen through fantasy.

This is a non sequitur. If I admitted that there is a god that disapproves flesh eating, then I would probably become a vegetarian. Which would be good news for pigs, but bad news for lettuce, But that is definetely insufficient evidence that such a god exist. It is just evidence that I was convinced that He does, in fact, exists.

By the way, I think the God of the Bible is a bad example for alcoholics, if we consider that the only righteous person in the whole Universe at a certain moment of time, was a drunkyard.

Ciao

- viole