Evolution and Creationism: because ...

[Parsimony]

Survival of the fittest was an economic theory to justify strict capitalism way before Darwin. And Hindus believed in evolution for thousands of years as a religious belief.

As long as you realize that those things are not relevant to the truth or falsehood of the biological theory of evolution with common descent then I'd be satisfied here.

 

[Brian Schuh]

Speciation

The study, ... confirms that genes connected to regulating the brain chemical dopamine are involved in schizophrenia, as predicted. But so are genes involved in the immune system, and several associated with heavy smoking.

"Some are very familiar genes expressed in nerve cells, and some are results where you scratch your head and you know you have more work to do" to understand their role in schizophrenia, said Steven Hyman, director of the Stanley Center for Psychiatric Research at the Broad Institute of MIT and Harvard, which helped lead the study.

That doesn't mean that schizophrenia is caused by inflammation or cigarettes. Genes may play one role in the immune system and another in the brain, for instance, Hyman said.

"Most importantly, the goal is not to end up with a list of genes, but with novel treatments," Hyman said via e-mail. To that end, he said, another member of theStanley Institute, former Merck executive Ed Scolnick, has developed a program to discover new drugs through combining genetics, stem cell work and neurobiological data, Hyman said.

At this point, the identification of the 108 schizophrenia genes in the new study means much more to scientists than to patients. Patients will start to benefit, Hyman said, when scientists — and hopefully drug companies — use the genes to identify targets for drug treatments.

"In some sense, it's already giving us clues to the biology of this disease that ultimately will be exploitable to understand what is going wrong in the brain and most importantly for very much needed new treatments," Hyman said.

This isn't the first time that researchers have considered a link between the immune system and schizophrenia. Smaller genetic studies have hinted at a connection. People with schizophrenia often have signs of inflammation in their bloodstream, and relatives of those with autoimmune disorders have as much as 45% increased risk of developing schizophrenia, said Consuelo Walss Bass, an associate professor at theUniversity of Texas Health Science Center in Houston.

The new study removes any doubt about the connection.

The genome-wide association study, or GWAS, looked for genes that were common across many of the 150,000 participants, nearly 37,000 of whom had the disease. The large number — and overrepresentation of those with schizophrenia — was crucial for scientists to see the contributions of multiple genes, each of which only contributes a little bit to schizophrenia.

About 1% of Americans have schizophrenia, a brain disorder that can lead to agitation, hearing voices and terrifying paranoia.

Studying so many patients requires the collaboration of many scientists and doctors, and is a "huge achievement," said Marcus Munafò, a professor of Biological Psychology at the University of Bristol in the United Kingdom, who wrote a commentary about the new study in Nature.

Most common diseases are the result of many genes interacting. GWAS studies help researchers identify genes that are important to a particular condition but may not be obvious in terms of function.

It's not clear yet why the genes associated with smoking are involved with schizophrenia, Munafò said, but knowing that they are could help researchers identify whether smoking actually increases risk, for instance, or whether there are lifestyle changes people could make to reduce their chances of getting schizophrenia, he said.

Because the study is so large, it's pretty certain that any gene that showed up in the study plays a significant role in schizophrenia, but not every gene important to the condition has been identified yet.

"Now we have 108 pieces, but maybe it's a 1,000-piece puzzle, so we have a long way to go," Hyman said.

Also, check out Web MD:

Scientists have long known that schizophrenia runs in families. The illness occurs in 1 percent of the general population, but it occurs in 10 percent of people who have a first-degree relative with the disorder, such as a parent, brother, or sister. People who have second-degree relatives (aunts, uncles, grandparents, or cousins) with the disease also develop schizophrenia more often than the general population. The risk is highest for an identical twin of a person with schizophrenia. He or she has a 40 to 65 percent chance of developing the disorder.

We inherit our genes from both parents. Scientists believe several genes are associated with an increased risk of schizophrenia, but that no gene causes the disease by itself. In fact, recent research has found that people with schizophrenia tend to have higher rates of rare genetic mutations. These genetic differences involve hundreds of different genes and probably disrupt brain development.

Witches did not pop up in Salem, a witch trial, with its roots in economics and religion popped up.

Because genetic make-up accounts for about 40 percent of the chance of a man being homosexual, besides, those with elements of the homosexual genotype and (and do) reproduce.

You do not understand any genetics beyond a simple Mendelian model, and even there you fail to factor in dominant and recessive considerations.

It's simple why schizophrenics smoke heavy (just as a rule of thumb, not all of them smoke) Antipsychotic drugs block dopamine, nicotine increases dopamine. It isn't natural to inhibit brain hormones. 1 in 3 cigarettes smoked in USA is smoked by schizophrenics or bipolars. They are unconsciously elevating their dopamine levels to counteract the antipsychotics.

When thorazine, haldol and other drugs came out, they slowed reaction time and destroyed the ability to be violent, like a chemical strait jacket. It had nothing to do with dopamine.

Lithium was seen to cause lab rats' muscles to be limp. Lithium prevents violence.

Prosac was thought to be a miracle drug, but in independent studies it is shown to be no more effective than a placebo, although it does what it is supposed to do with serotonin.

There is no genetic or biochemical basis for mental illness. Read "Toxic Psychiatry" by Dr. Peter Breggin.

 

[Brian Schuh]

Thorazine was a horse tranquilizer. Ronald Reagan was about to shut the insane asylums down because the Supreme Court ruled they were unconstitutional. They had to do something quick, so they administered thorazine to violent psych patients. More to do with politics than biochemicals.

 

[Brian Schuh]

Many psych drugs like Resperdol adversely effect prolactin in males, a sex hormone, causing impotence. A side effect? Or the intended effect?

 

[Brian Schuh]

Retarded men are taught that their penis is a muscle that needs to be exercised, to "help" them masterbate excessively so they won't have sex and procreate. That is the extent of their sex "education."

 

[Brian Schuh]

As long as you realize that those things are not relevant to the truth or falsehood of the biological theory of evolution with common descent then I'd be satisfied here.

There is no common descent, whether or not the evolutionary process is true or not. One has nothing to do with the other.

 

[Brian Schuh]

A Beautiful Mind is a movie (a true story) about a schizophrenic who won the Nobel Peace Prize for economics. After insulin shock treatments and psych drugs, he could not do arithmetic or have sex with his wife. He had no children.

I have no idea why God created Down Syndromes, but they are here for a reason. They seem to be able to hold down a job better than schizophrenics. I haven't worked except for myself in years.

 

[Parsimony]

There is no common descent, whether or not the evolutionary process is true or not. One has nothing to do with the other.

Evolution is most certainly a necessary part of common descent.

 

[Brian Schuh]

The world is not overpopulated. Earth produces 3 times more food than humankind can consume. We are lied to, what they are actually saying is the undesirables are overpopulated.

 

[Brian Schuh]

Evolution is most certainly a necessary part of common descent.

The truth of the evolutíonary process does not necessarily imply common descent, and can be consistent with creationism

 

[Valjean]

What does overpopulation have to do with food production? The problem with population is its effect on biodiversity.

 

[Brian Schuh]

What does overpopulation have to do with food production? The problem with population is its effect on biodiversity.

And the problem with preventing undesirables from procreation is that it creates a weaker gene pool. A strong gene pool is one with much diversity. If Hitler got his way, all whites would be blond with blue eyes. That isn't biodiversity.

The book I live by says be fruitful and multiply, have dominion and subdue the Earth. (The Hebrew for subdue is closer to have stewardship.)

It is more important to have a strong gene pool. Oil drilling and gold mining do more harm to biodiversity than so called "over population."

 

[Brian Schuh]

When people asked Hitler why he didn't have blond hair and blue eyes, he claimed to be descended from African Bushmen, who he claimed were more pure than Caucasians. Yet he had white skin.

 

[Valjean]

And the problem with preventing undesirables from procreation is that it creates a weaker gene pool. A strong gene pool is one with much diversity. If Hitler got his way, all whites would be blond with blue eyes. That isn't biodiversity.

The book I live by says be fruitful and multiply, have dominion and subdue the Earth. (The Hebrew for subdue is closer to have stewardship.)

It is more important to have a strong gene pool. Oil drilling and gold mining do more harm to biodiversity than so called "over population."

Biodiversity within a species is useful because it provides natural selection with something to work with. But wouldn't shutting down natural selection by enabling the disabled to breed as successfully as the hardy multiply disabilities in a population? That's not what I'd call a strong gene pool.

When I speak of biodiversity I'm referring to the biosphere's life support system -- the complex interaction between the millions of species that create and maintain the conditions necessary for us to survive on this planet.
Currently our numbers are altering the biological systems that make life on Earth possible.
It's our fruitfulness and multiplication that constitute the greatest threat not only to ourselves, but to all life on Earth.

 

[Brian Schuh]

Biodiversity within a species is useful because it provides natural selection with something to work with. But wouldn't shutting down natural selection by enabling the disabled to breed as successfully as the hardy multiply disabilities in a population? That's not what I'd call a strong gene pool.

When I speak of biodiversity I'm referring to the biosphere's life support system -- the complex interaction between the millions of species that create and maintain the conditions necessary for us to survive on this planet.
Currently our numbers are altering the biological systems that make life on Earth possible.
It's our fruitfulness and multiplication that constitute the greatest threat not only to ourselves, but to all life on Earth.

I agree for the most part. You said it just about right. When God is quoted in Genesis saying dominate and subdue the Earth, that's bad translation. It says in Hebrew to be stewards of the earth. I don't believe in enabling defective people to procreate, but I also don't believe in spending time and money to stop them either. Everyone has got the right to pursue happiness. If that means drinking, smoking and screwing, more power to you. That doesn't mean I'll buy you a beer and a hooker. Nor will I take your wife and baby from you, still doesn't mean you can meet my single sister. You have the right to own a gun, doesn't mean I'm buying you one for your birthday. See what I'm saying?

 

[Valjean]

Why can't I meet your sister?

 

[Brian Schuh]

Why can't I meet your sister?

 

[Brian Schuh]

I don't know if she is really single. She used to be a dancer, made $250,000 a year in one dollar bills.

 

[Parsimony]

The truth of the evolutíonary process does not necessarily imply common descent, and can be consistent with creationism

If you want to get technical, evolution is just a change in the frequency of alleles in a population over time. You could consider that consistent with creationism (most creationists I know of do accept microevolution). Heck, I even accepted that macroevolution was possible when I was still a creationist.

 

[Valjean]

If you want to get technical, evolution is just a change in the frequency of alleles in a population over time. You could consider that consistent with creationism (most creationists I know of do accept microevolution). Heck, I even accepted that macroevolution was possible when I was still a creationist.

I've always wondered how micro changes know when to stop occurring, so as to avoid becoming macro changes, for example, how do creationists explain ring speciation?

There's more to the controversy than a genetic dispute. It's a clash of world-views, a metaphysical debate over a magical world focused on humankind vs a cold, uncaring, mechanistic universe where our species has no special mystical significance.