• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Evolution by Natural Selection is a fact

Man of Faith

Well-Known Member
The only way for evolutionists to logically defend evolution is to ignore the necessity for the millions and billions of random mutations that it requires to form a complex creature, hence the OP stating that natural selection is all evolution is. The reason for that is natural selection can be observed scientifically, but random mutations that change the morphology of a creature going forward can’t be. The denial that evolution is a philosophy and not science is the biggest delusion created by science in all of history.

Eventually the only way to defend evolution will be to attack creationists, to shout them down and shut them up, to ridicule and scorn them and try to make it illegal to talk about creation or God. Evolutionists can’t win the science debate, only the politically correct atheistic naturalistic godless debate. And that is what keeps moving evolution forward, not science, but a secular political and philosophical landscape.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
The only way for evolutionists to logically defend evolution is to ignore the necessity for the millions and billions of random mutations that it requires to form a complex creature, hence the OP stating that natural selection is all evolution is.

How do you know precisely what it takes to make a "complex creature"? Do you know the exact genetic and physical makeup of the simplest kind of living organism that has ever existed? Life most likely didn't form as a result of "mutations", but through a complex and, as of yet, little understood process of chemical interaction.

The reason for that is natural selection can be observed scientifically, but random mutations that change the morphology of a creature going forward can’t be.
Are you saying mutations don't exist? So you think everybody is an exact genetic copy of their parents? We've never observed mutations in the human genome? You've never met or seen anybody born with any kind of physical abnormality or anything other than the exact same features their parents passed down to them?

Try again.

Eventually the only way to defend evolution will be to attack creationists, to shout them down and shut them up, to ridicule and scorn them and try to make it illegal to talk about creation or God. Evolutionists can’t win the science debate, only the politically correct atheistic naturalistic godless debate. And that is what keeps moving evolution forward, not science, but a secular political and philosophical landscape.
And facts. Lots and lots and lots of facts.

Like the fact that people who says things like you've just said don't even have a basic understanding of what the word "mutation" means. Your input on the subject of biology can only be minimal at best.
 

Zoe Doidge

Basically a Goddess
The only way for evolutionists to logically defend evolution is to ignore the necessity for the millions and billions of random mutations that it requires to form a complex creature, hence the OP stating that natural selection is all evolution is. The reason for that is natural selection can be observed scientifically, but random mutations that change the morphology of a creature going forward can’t be. The denial that evolution is a philosophy and not science is the biggest delusion created by science in all of history.

Eventually the only way to defend evolution will be to attack creationists, to shout them down and shut them up, to ridicule and scorn them and try to make it illegal to talk about creation or God. Evolutionists can’t win the science debate, only the politically correct atheistic naturalistic godless debate. And that is what keeps moving evolution forward, not science, but a secular political and philosophical landscape.

This post shows how, through simple mathematics, mutations alone would inevitably lead to speciation.

In short, take the average mutations per generation and multiply it by a number of generations. When the percentage difference reaches a point where the genome is sufficiently different (I've done 5%, the rough difference between us and Chimpanzee's) then you know speciation must occur within a certain time period (defined by however long you take a generation to be).
 

Pleroma

philalethist
The only way for evolutionists to logically defend evolution is to ignore the necessity for the millions and billions of random mutations that it requires to form a complex creature, hence the OP stating that natural selection is all evolution is. The reason for that is natural selection can be observed scientifically, but random mutations that change the morphology of a creature going forward can’t be. The denial that evolution is a philosophy and not science is the biggest delusion created by science in all of history.

Eventually the only way to defend evolution will be to attack creationists, to shout them down and shut them up, to ridicule and scorn them and try to make it illegal to talk about creation or God. Evolutionists can’t win the science debate, only the politically correct atheistic naturalistic godless debate. And that is what keeps moving evolution forward, not science, but a secular political and philosophical landscape.

Man of Faith,

With the advent of biophysics, bioinformatics, genomics, proteomics etc which uses mathematical models to assess genomic changes evolution by Natural Selection is as well established as any other theory of Science like the Einstein theory of Relativity.

If Evolution by Natural Selection is not true then the antibiotics prescribed by your doctor wouldn't have worked and we wouldn't have cured all those diseases of mankind like polio.

Isn't it silly that you go to a doctor and take antibiotics from him when you are ill which basically works on the basis of evolution by Natural selection and gives you well being and you deny that the antibiotics didn't cured you?
 

Krok

Active Member
The only way for evolutionists to logically defend evolution is to ignore the necessity for the millions and billions of random mutations…
That’s strange, but the publication of tens of thousands of peer-reviewed articles in scientific journals indicate the opposite of “ignoring the necessity of millions and billions of random mutations” to me. Unless creationists want to change the meaning of the word “ignore” to one that suits them.


That's a form of telling untruths, too. Creationists keep on doing that. It’s all they have.

Anyway, those articles published in scientific journals also lead to the discovery of other mechanisms, too, for example gene flow and genetic drift. And more.
… that it requires to form a complex creature, hence the OP stating that natural selection is all evolution is.
No, the OP certainly does not say that. I’ll repeat the OP:


Pleroma said:
Evolution by Natural Selection is a fact.

“To put it bluntly but fairly, anyone today who doubts that the variety of life on this planet was produced by a process of evolution is simply ignorant—inexcusably ignorant, in a world where three out of four people have learned to read and write.”

- Daniel C. Dennett
You, Man-of-faith, are not doing your religion any favours by constantly telling untruths.
…The reason for that is natural selection can be observed scientifically, but random mutations that change the morphology of a creature going forward can’t be.
Natural selection is still a fact.


It’s just funny that we’ve seen unicellular organisms evolving into multicellular organisms in the lab. Right in front of our eyes. I hope that you realize, Man of Faith, that you are a multicellular organism consisting of lots of specialized cells, whether you like it or not?
….The denial that evolution is a philosophy and not science is the biggest delusion created by science in all of history.
That’s so funny, since even the Catholic Church (the biggest Christian Church in the world) sees evolution as science. Same with every scientific organisation in the world. Same as every accredited university in the world. Don’t you ever think that you might be wrong and that all the other might be right? Especially all those who are specialists in on the subject?
…Eventually the only way to defend evolution will be to attack creationists,…
Luckily nobody has to do it, as creatinists attack themselves by constantly telling untruths about everything. Like you do in this post. You lie. That’s all you can do. That's why creationists are called creotards.
…to shout them down and shut them up,…
Maybe it’s because nobody likes listening to people who always lie? Nobody likes people who can never tell truth, but think that other people are too stupid to realize that creationists always lie?
…. to ridicule and scorn them and try to make it illegal to talk about creation or God.
They do it themselves by always telling untruths about everything.
… Evolutionists can’t win the science debate,…
That’s strange, as the Theory of Evolution has been accepted by more than 99.99% of all biologists in the world. It seems as if the scientific debate has been won a long time ago.
….only the politically correct atheistic naturalistic godless debate.
Then why do the overwhelming majority of Christians who are scientists also accept the Theory of Evolution? You do know that you repeating untruths will never turn your untruths lies into the truth, right?

And that is what keeps moving evolution forward, not science, but a secular political and philosophical landscape.
You see, Man of Faith, educated people know when creationists lie. They know when you lie. They see that you always lie.
 

camanintx

Well-Known Member
The only way for evolutionists to logically defend evolution is to ignore the necessity for the millions and billions of random mutations that it requires to form a complex creature, hence the OP stating that natural selection is all evolution is.
You seem to know an awful lot about a process that you claim doesn't exist. Just how many random mutations do you think separate humans from chimpanzees?
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
The only way for evolutionists to logically defend evolution is to ignore the necessity for the millions and billions of random mutations that it requires to form a complex creature, hence the OP stating that natural selection is all evolution is. The reason for that is natural selection can be observed scientifically, but random mutations that change the morphology of a creature going forward can’t be. The denial that evolution is a philosophy and not science is the biggest delusion created by science in all of history.

Eventually the only way to defend evolution will be to attack creationists, to shout them down and shut them up, to ridicule and scorn them and try to make it illegal to talk about creation or God. Evolutionists can’t win the science debate, only the politically correct atheistic naturalistic godless debate. And that is what keeps moving evolution forward, not science, but a secular political and philosophical landscape.

I'm beginning to believe that you're just a sophisticated script/bot coded to troll forums. If not, one could be easily written that would be entirely indistinguishable.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
I'm beginning to believe that you're just a sophisticated script/bot coded to troll forums. If not, one could be easily written that would be entirely indistinguishable.

what almost two years we have tried to educate said poster.

its refusal of knowledge, combined with purposeful spreading of misinformation to promote his personal faith :facepalm:
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
:thud:

I love debating evolutionists, it's so enlightening! :D
Do you seriously not understand the difference between those two statement?
Or are you purposefully misconstruing them?

Agreed... this has been enlightening, but not in the way that you seem to think. :rolleyes:

wa:do
 

Mazzyhere

Member
Man of Faith,

With the advent of biophysics, bioinformatics, genomics, proteomics etc which uses mathematical models to assess genomic changes evolution by Natural Selection is as well established as any other theory of Science like the Einstein theory of Relativity.

If Evolution by Natural Selection is not true then the antibiotics prescribed by your doctor wouldn't have worked and we wouldn't have cured all those diseases of mankind like polio.

Isn't it silly that you go to a doctor and take antibiotics from him when you are ill which basically works on the basis of evolution by Natural selection and gives you well being and you deny that the antibiotics didn't cured you?

I think natural selection/adaptation demonstrates that if any organism does not have some ability to adapt and gain immunity it will not survive. In this way we adapt over a lifetime and we need to.

This can be observed but does not demonstrate macroevolution which cannot be demonstrated in a lab.

Evolutionary theory is perhaps not as credible as assumed because any possible falsification will be addressed with one of the many terms meant to negate a falsification, like convergent evolution.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Evolutionary theory is perhaps not as credible as assumed

perhaps knowledge is refused that explain's evolution, very very clearly.



. In this way we adapt over a lifetime and we need to.

Nope wrong again.

our genes that are past on, can provide benifits for the next generation.

evolution by our time standards in homo sapiens is very slow


This can be observed but does not demonstrate macroevolution which cannot be demonstrated in a lab.

Ignorantly stated. [wrong]

speciation has been observed, try again.
 

Mazzyhere

Member
perhaps knowledge is refused that explain's evolution, very very clearly.
That could be the case for ether side of the debate.

Nope wrong again.

our genes that are past on, can provide benifits for the next generation.

evolution by our time standards in homo sapiens is very slow

That is true but does not negate my statement that individuals adapt during a lifetime. Immunity is just one example.




Ignorantly stated. [wrong]

speciation has been observed, try again.

Oh you are a bit rude. I am not ignorant.

Perhaps you know better than more qualified evolutionary researchers in this Nature article!

Review Article Darwin's bridge between microevolution and macroevolution

12 Feb 2009
David N. Reznick & Robert E. Ricklefs
Abstract

Evolutionary biologists have long sought to understand the relationship between microevolution (adaptation), which can be observed both in nature and in the laboratory, and macroevolution (speciation and the origin of the divisions of the taxonomic hierarchy above the species level, and the development of complex organs), which cannot be witnessed because it occurs over intervals that far exceed the human lifespan. The connection between these processes is also a major source of conflict between science and religious belief. Biologists often forget that Charles Darwin offered a way of resolving this issue, and his proposal is ripe for re-evaluation in the light of recent research.



These researchers appear to be clear that microevolution/adaptation is observed in the laboratory and that does not demonstrate speciation above species level. Macroevolution, change above species level has not been observed. I am fairly clear about the definitions of such terms.

How come you are so unclear?
 
Last edited:

tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie
Perhaps you know better than more qualified evolutionary researchers in this Nature article!

Review Article Darwin's bridge between microevolution and macroevolution

12 Feb 2009
David N. Reznick & Robert E. Ricklefs
Abstract

Evolutionary biologists have long sought to understand the relationship between microevolution (adaptation), which can be observed both in nature and in the laboratory, and macroevolution (speciation and the origin of the divisions of the taxonomic hierarchy above the species level, and the development of complex organs), which cannot be witnessed because it occurs over intervals that far exceed the human lifespan. The connection between these processes is also a major source of conflict between science and religious belief. Biologists often forget that Charles Darwin offered a way of resolving this issue, and his proposal is ripe for re-evaluation in the light of recent research.
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=3016446


These researchers appear to be clear that microevolution/adaptation is observed in the laboratory and that does not demonstrate speciation above species level. Macroevolution, change above species level has not been observed. I am fairly clear about the definitions of such terms.

How come you are so unclear?

I have a feeling you did not pay for the entire article.

If you had, you would have seen that the researchers go on to discuss various hypothesis for the large species explosion during the Cambrian period, including Megaevolution, Punctuated Equilibrium, Macromutations and Heterochrony.
Hardly the conclusion you have drawn from the short abstract.
 

Pleroma

philalethist
Oh you are a bit rude. I am not ignorant.

Perhaps you know better than more qualified evolutionary researchers in this Nature article!

Review Article Darwin's bridge between microevolution and macroevolution

These researchers appear to be clear that microevolution/adaptation is observed in the laboratory and that does not demonstrate speciation above species level. Macroevolution, change above species level has not been observed. I am fairly clear about the definitions of such terms.

How come you are so unclear?

Speciation has nothing to do with Macroevolution. Speciation has been observed and it is fact.

We know how Macroevolution has taken place even though we cannot observe it in a person's life time. There is no mystery here.

WebsterWorld - Online Encyclopedia - Australian Encyclopedia - World Encyclopedia - Education Resource - WebsterWorld

Biologists at the University of California, San Diego, have uncovered the first genetic evidence that explains how large-scale alterations to body plans were brought about during the early evolution of animals. This fills a major gap in explaining evolution because it gives us an insight into the way new animal body plans might arise from a simple genetic mutation. At the same time, it effectively answers a major criticism creationists had long leveled against evolution - the absence of a genetic mechanism that could permit animals to introduce radical new body designs.

In simple terms, the newly identified mechanism takes away one of the underhand ploys used by people who do not understand the nature of evolution, and who seek to prevent it being taught in schools. Motivated by their reading of the Bible, these people call themselves 'creation scientists', pretending to argue from a scientific viewpoint that evolution is seriously flawed as a theory, and is unproven.

This immediately identifies the 'creationists' as people with no real understanding of either scientific theories or the nature of scientific proof (a matter addressed in Fingerprints and science, January 2002). Theories are 'best approximations', and expected to have flaws which will later be worked out, just as Einstein refined Newton's laws by adding new conditions for very fast travel. In fact, much of science involves testing theories to find discrepancies. This means that gaps in a theory are deliberately sought out by scientists, not because the theory is 'wrong', but because there is clearly still something to learn.

What it comes down to is a semantic quibble, with scientists using 'theory' as another word for a model or paradigm, while the opponents of science and evolution deliberately muddy the waters, using 'theory' in the sense of 'as opposed to practice'. In other words, these people call themselves 'scientists', but rely on distortion to achieve a political goal of censorship

One can find the full paper here -
http://mcb.berkeley.edu/courses/mcbc245/MCBC245PDFs/Gellon.pdf

Evolution by Natural Selection is as well established as any other theory, it is not based on beliefs, it is based on observational data.
 
Top