EVOLUTION, what a lie.

[Autodidact]

Response: Very true. And we should all be able to verify to see if what's not mentioned is true. When it comes to ToE, that's not the case. No one here has ever seen with their own eyes, a species evolve into another. Yet a biologists says that they've seen it, and somehow it's true. Now let the christian tell that same person that they saw the Holy Ghost, and they will get mocked. Why the hypocrisy? This is the hypocritical double standard that all ToE believers have.

There is a significant difference that you should understand. When a scientist reports something, it must be possible for anyone else to repeat the observation and see the same thing. If not, the observation is not accepted. When a Christian says they see the Holy Ghost, it does not mean that I can also see it. It may be only in their head. But when a Biologist says, "I went to London and observed a new species of mosquito in the Underground," you can also go and observe the same thing. If you go, and don't observe that new species, the Biologist's observations would not be accepted. This prevent scientists from lying to each other, or even just making a mistaken observation. This built-in double-check is part of the scientific method. If religious believers are willing to subject their observations to the same safeguard, they will also be accepted by science.

 

[Autodidact]

But Fatty, your whole working premise is based on a faulty definition. The simple fact is that the Theory of Evolution is not as you portray it to be.

This despite having it explained to him in the most elementary terms.

Fatihah wants to persist in believing that ToE is the Theory that there is no God. He cannot grasp the important difference between atheism and ToE, nor does he understand that science, like plumbing, is neutral as to whether there is a God.

 

[Autodidact]

Response: You can also verify the scholarship of the qur'an and hadiths in the same manner. So to accept one and not the other is hypocritical.

Really? If I go where the religious believer went, I will also see the Holy Spirit? Tell you what, if I don't, will you throw the observation out?

 

[Tristesse]

Response: Very true. And we should all be able to verify to see if what's not mentioned is true. When it comes to ToE, that's not the case. No one here has ever seen with their own eyes, a species evolve into another. Yet a biologists says that they've seen it, and somehow it's true. Now let the christian tell that same person that they saw the Holy Ghost, and they will get mocked. Why the hypocrisy? This is the hypocritical double standard that all ToE believers have.

To take this a step further, you have not seen with your own eyes the authors of the qur'an. Evolution is actually observable though. And the evidence is overwhelming to confirm that evolution did indeed occur. You don't have to witness something with your own eyes to make a judgement. Thats how detectives put together a crime scene. None of the detectives were there at the crime scene, but with enough evidence they can put together what most likely happened.

 

[Fatihah]

What do you mean, "proof"? What do you want me to tell you? You're using one definition of "evolution", but it's not the definition used in the Theory of Evolution. The theory of evolution is about changes in lifeforms over generations of populations, not one individual. Therefore, the definition you brought up is irrelevant to a discussion about the Theory of Evolution.

Response: I never said that it was the definition of the Theory of Evolution so your point is irrelevant.

 

[Fatihah]

[QUOTE/mball1297]No, you can't. If a biologist does an experiment and shows you the evidence supporting whatever conclusion he came to, you can go back and do the same experiment and see exactly what he saw. We believe what scientists say because if we were really interested we could go study it ourselves and see it with our own eyes. We can't do the same with claims about God, Allah or some spiritual experience.(End quote)

Response: "Could" is not the same as "Can". So you have no proof.

/Quote: mball1287/
No, it's not.(End Quote)

Response: Yes, it is.

 

[Fatihah]

You keep saying this, and it's still wrong. Painted wolf, for instance, has actually seen this exact thing. She's a biologist. I've seen it on shows and in books and on the internet. You can actually see it for yourself, if you want to (although I know you don't want to).

Response: You've seen something evolve into another species in front of your own eyes?

 

[Autodidact]

Fatihah:

1. So you read and understood my post explaining that for a new species to evolve takes hundreds or thousands of years? Did you read where I explicitly stated that a single person does not observe it happening? (except in the case of fast-reproducing species such as fruit flies.) So why are you asking for exactly that?

2. So you believe that we cannot get any scientific knowledge from scientists? We have to get it ourselves? You don't accept any scientific observations or discoveries unless you yourself do the experiment or make the observation? Doesn't that kind of limit your knowledge?

 

[Autodidact]

Are you willing to learn the quote function or do you prefer to remain ignorant?

 

[Fatihah]

I say in post 1266:

Quote the post in which I say that ToE is not true because it's not in the qur'an, if you are truthful.[/QUOTE]

Autodidact responds:

Quote: Autodidact/
Then how do you know that anyone who accepts ToE is not a true muslim?(End quote)

I respond:
Because it's not in the qur'an.(End quote)

Therefore, Autodidact, the above means that if it's not in the qur'an, you're not a true "MUSLIM", not that it's not true. Thank you.

 

[Autodidact]

So if a person believes something not in the Qu'ran, that person is not a True Muslim? For example, if you believe that our last President was named George W. Bush, you would not be a True Muslim?

 

[Autodidact]

Are you willing to learn the quote function or do you prefer to remain ignorant? I can send you a PM if you prefer.

 

[painted wolf]

Response: I never said that it was the definition of the Theory of Evolution so your point is irrelevant.

If you are not going to talk about the theory of evolution... what are you here to talk about?

wa:do

 

[Fatihah]

There is a significant difference that you should understand. When a scientist reports something, it must be possible for anyone else to repeat the observation and see the same thing. If not, the observation is not accepted. When a Christian says they see the Holy Ghost, it does not mean that I can also see it. It may be only in their head. But when a Biologist says, "I went to London and observed a new species of mosquito in the Underground," you can also go and observe the same thing. If you go, and don't observe that new species, the Biologist's observations would not be accepted. This prevent scientists from lying to each other, or even just making a mistaken observation. This built-in double-check is part of the scientific method. If religious believers are willing to subject their observations to the same safeguard, they will also be accepted by science.

Response: Anyone can claim a mosquito evolved into another. But one has to actually see it happen in order for it to be true. That's not the case.

 

[Fatihah]

This despite having it explained to him in the most elementary terms.

Fatihah wants to persist in believing that ToE is the Theory that there is no God. He cannot grasp the important difference between atheism and ToE, nor does he understand that science, like plumbing, is neutral as to whether there is a God.

Response: Another statement. Where's the proof?

 

[fantome profane]

I can’t believe how long this thread has gone on. Can anybody who is participating in it explain to me what they are trying to accomplish?

 

[Fatihah]

To take this a step further, you have not seen with your own eyes the authors of the qur'an. Evolution is actually observable though. And the evidence is overwhelming to confirm that evolution did indeed occur. You don't have to witness something with your own eyes to make a judgement. Thats how detectives put together a crime scene. None of the detectives were there at the crime scene, but with enough evidence they can put together what most likely happened.

Response: How on earth do you know if something evolved without seeing it do so? To see something evolve requires sight. To say otherwise is simply, illogical.

 

[Fatihah]

Fatihah:

1. So you read and understood my post explaining that for a new species to evolve takes hundreds or thousands of years? Did you read where I explicitly stated that a single person does not observe it happening? (except in the case of fast-reproducing species such as fruit flies.) So why are you asking for exactly that?

2. So you believe that we cannot get any scientific knowledge from scientists? We have to get it ourselves? You don't accept any scientific observations or discoveries unless you yourself do the experiment or make the observation? Doesn't that kind of limit your knowledge?

Response: If no one sees it, how did you know it happened? You can't know.

 

[Fatihah]

So if a person believes something not in the Qu'ran, that person is not a True Muslim? For example, if you believe that our last President was named George W. Bush, you would not be a True Muslim?

Response: If the qur'an explains how something happened and a muslim doesn't accept it, they are not following properly.

 

[Autodidact]

Response: Anyone can claim a mosquito evolved into another. But one has to actually see it happen in order for it to be true. That's not the case.

YOU CAN GO AND SEE IT YOURSELF.

So this information on wiki is all false then?