EVOLUTION, what a lie.

[painted wolf]

A boy becoming a man is not evolution!!

There is no change in the genetics between an organism when it is an embryo and when it is an adult.
Evolution is a change over several generations... not a single individuals growth and development.

Please stop using this example, it only makes you look bad. Unless you want to show a profound lack of understanding of evolutionary biology and open yourself up to such attack?

wa:do

 

[YmirGF]

That's because every human being can see the same things the scientist does, if they want to. Go study biology in school, and you'll see evolution at work, too.

Personally speaking, I have come to the conclusion that religious fanatics are brain damaged. The way I mean this is similar to the idea of "use it or lose it" as in terms of keeping physically fit. Eddy, Fatihah and Ghostaka definitely show signs of having atrophied intellects.

My advice to all believers in ToE is to just give up on the people who refuse to believe in reason and move heaven and earth to make sure that the fate of intellectual atrophication never happens to your kids.

 

[Fatihah]

Wow. I've seen a lot of willful ignorance on threads on this subject, but this probably takes the cake. It's mind-boggling that you could close your mind enough to actually believe this. It's sad.

Response: When all a person can provide is a statement like yours and can't produce evidence to the contrary, it becomes very clear who has indulged in willful ignorance.

 

[Magic Man]

Response: When all a person can provide is a statement like yours and can't produce evidence to the contrary, it becomes very clear who has indulged in willful ignorance.

That's all I choose to provide at this point because you've already made it clear that you won't look at any evidence anyway. And, yes, it is very clear who has indulged in willful ignorance here.

 

[Fatihah]

Personally speaking, I have come to the conclusion that religious fanatics are brain damaged. The way I mean this is similar to the idea of "use it or lose it" as in terms of keeping physically fit. Eddy, Fatihah and Ghostaka definitely show signs of having atrophied intellects.

My advice to all believers in ToE is to just give up on the people who refuse to believe in reason and move heaven and earth to make sure that the fate of intellectual atrophication never happens to your kids.

Response: Likewise.

 

[Autodidact]

[QUOTE:Autodidact]
So, Fatihah, do all scientists lie regularly as a matter of course, or only Biologists.? Are you opposed to science in general, or just Biology? Do you think Biology is one big anti-Allah conspiracy? Or just that Biologists are particularly stupid?

Response: When it comes to the creation of species, it's the biggest lie I have ever seen. The sad part is when a person is brainwashed to believe it then poke fun at others for not agreeing.

So what you're saying is that Biologists actually falsify their data, actually record things that they do not observe, and no one has caught them yet? Not even the creationists who are on a mission to do just that? Is that right?

 

[Fatihah]

A boy becoming a man is not evolution!!

There is no change in the genetics between an organism when it is an embryo and when it is an adult.
Evolution is a change over several generations... not a single individuals growth and development.

Please stop using this example, it only makes you look bad. Unless you want to show a profound lack of understanding of evolutionary biology and open yourself up to such attack?

wa:do

Response: You don't determine what a word means, the word itself does that already. That is not the definition of evolution. That is an "example" of evolution. Just because you are considered a biologists does not give you the authority over the english language.

 

[Autodidact]

[QUOTE:Autodidact]So Allah put you in charge of deciding who is a true Muslim then?[/quote]

Response: No. And never said He did.

Then how do you know that anyone who accepts ToE is not a True Muslim? Maybe ToE is the Truth of Allah, and you're not a True Muslim because you refuse to accept it.

Quote: Autodidact/
Here's your problem: ToE is correct. If you think Islam depends on denying ToE, then Islam depends on denying the truth. That would be a problem for Islam. So maybe you want to rethink whether Islam in fact requires that.(End quote

)

Response: There's a statement. Where's the proof?

IT'S NOT ABOUT PROOF. It's. Not. About. Proof. It's about evidence. We haven't even started on the evidence yet. I haven't been able to get you to grasp what the first step of the ToE is. You continue to respond to a non-existent theory. Once I manage to get you to understand that theory, we'll begin on the evidence. I warn you--there's a lot of it.

Quote: Autididact
Sorry, not interested in this irrelevant question.(End quote)

Response: Of course. Jumping out of the way to avoid the display of your obvious hypocrisy. Smart move. Then since you're not interested, then there is no need to go on.

[/quote] It's irrelevant. It has nothing to do with this issue. It's not a good analogy.

I'm not asking you to believe that a scientist saw anything. I'm inviting you to go to London, go into a tube station, catch a mosquito, compare it to an above-ground mosquito, and see whether it's a different species or not. That's how science works. Anyone can do it, as long as they use good methodology.

Is it that you won't accept any information from a female, non-Muslim homosexual, not even how to use the quote function? Or you prefer for your readers to be annoyed and confused, or what?

 

[YmirGF]

So what you're saying is that Biologists actually falsify their data, actually record things that they do not observe, and no one has caught them yet? Not even the creationists who are on a mission to do just that? Is that right?

I see you are beginning to understand the scope of this, Autodidact. Not to worry, they will soon move against Lesbians too.

 

[Fatihah]

So what you're saying is that Biologists actually falsify their data, actually record things that they do not observe, and no one has caught them yet? Not even the creationists who are on a mission to do just that? Is that right?

Response: Refer to post 1218 on page 122.

 

[Autodidact]

When you start to insult people, it is a sign that you are losing your grip in the debate (sorely).

Well you explain it to me, Ghostaka. I've explained patiently over and over that ToE is NOT the theory that there is no God, that it's perfectly compatible with God, if you happen to believe in one, that we can all assume for the purpose of this thread that Allah is God and the creator of all, and that we are NOT debating whether Allah created all. I've explained at least ten times that ToE does not deny that Allah created all, and that if you believe Allah is the creator, then ToE explains only how He did so. Yet the Fatihah continues to assert, as a response, that Allah created all. How do you explain it? If it's not stubborness, stupidity or rudeness, what is it?

Come on . Allah has appointed your time to die. Does that mean you can drive at hectic speeds without a seat belt because you think that if you're going to die; it is you time? No. You may end up paralyzed from the neck down yet still be alive (on life support) becuase it wasn't your time; but now you just crippled yourself. Same logic. Do you get what I mean? Trust in Allah but tie up your camel .

Exactly. You are agreeing with me. Allah is in charge of plumbing and creatures. That doesn't mean you shouldn't learn how they work.

In many instances Allah mentions in the Holy Qur'an how He has created man:

In Chapter 23 (The Believers):

14. Then We made the sperm-drop into a clinging clot, and We made the clot into a lump [of flesh], and We made [from] the lump, bones, and We covered the bones with flesh; then We developed him into another creation. So blessed is Allāh, the best of creators.
15. Then indeed, after that you are to die.
16. Then indeed you, on the Day of Resurrection, will be resurrected.

Then again in Chapter 75 (Resurrection):

36. Thinketh man that he is to be left aimless?
37. Was he not a drop of fluid which gushed forth?
38. Then he became a clot; then (Allah) shaped and fashioned
39. And made of him a pair, the male and female.
40. Is not He (who doeth so) able to bring the dead to life?

Chapter 86 (The Morning Star)

5. So let man consider from what he is created.
6. He is created from a gushing fluid
7. That issued from between the loins and ribs.
8. Lo! He verily is Able to return him (unto life)

Allah does not need to write a thesis paper to prove this to humans. Those that are open-minded should be able to see that He is able to create us with His Might. And this is evident in the numerous signs Allah has placed in the solar system, sky, earth, animals and of course; ourselves.

Thank you. This is very helpful. I don't think any of this contradicts ToE in any way, and it appears to me, as an outsider, that any devout Muslim is free to accept ToE and be guided by these passages. Now I don't know why they argue against it so strenuously. Is it their religious leaders?

 

[painted wolf]

You don't determine what a word means, the word itself does that already. That is not the definition of evolution. That is an "example" of evolution. Just because you are considered a biologists does not give you the authority over the english language.

I am using the biological definition of the word. When talking about biology no other definition is relevant.

If you want to play silly word games and demonstrate willful ignorance by it, that is your choice.

wa:do

 

[Autodidact]

Response: There is too much proof and very obvious that God exists and absolute none for the theory of evolution (ToE).

First, you have no idea what the evidence is for ToE. After having it explained to you as to a child, you still don't even understand that ToE is NOT the theory that God did not create the world. YES, ALLAH EXISTS AND CREATED THE WORLD. We're not arguing about that. The only thing we're discussing here is, HOW? What kind of impression do you think you're making here, when I've had to tell you this at least ten times?

What is sad is when a person goes to the extreme of trying to portray something that is obvious false to be the truth and confidently stand by it. No one has seen a species evolve into another with their own eyes

Actually, yes, they have.

yet if a scientist says they did, it becomes true.

Not a scientist, every scientist who's looked at it.

To say something is true in which you yourself hasn't seen is called "brainwashing".

You don't even believe this nonsense. Is Obama President? Really? Have you seen him with your own eyes?

Even worse, is when a person will say that they actually saw this take place when they no they haven't, yet confidently say it anyway and call the other person who doesn't agree absurd. That's extreme brainwashing.

When it's inconvenient to your position for something to exist, the only recourse is to deny reality, as you are now doing.

 

[Autodidact]

Response: Exactly. I couldn't have said it better. Yes, there's cases of evolving. A boy to a man for example.

THAT'S NOT EVOLUTION. I explained to you very patiently what evolution is. It's not change in an individual; it's change in a population over time.

But you remain the same "you". The same species.

If your fear makes it impossible for you to grasp this simple point, this Junior High School biology, I don't think there's any hope for you to understand the rest of the theory.

 

[Fatihah]

[QUOTE:Autodidact]So Allah put you in charge of deciding who is a true Muslim then?

Then how do you know that anyone who accepts ToE is not a True Muslim? (End quote)

Response: Because it's not in the qur'an.

Quote: Autodidact/
IT'S NOT ABOUT PROOF. It's. Not. About. Proof.(End quote)

Response: Thus ends the discussion.

 

[Autodidact]

Response: When all a person can provide is a statement like yours and can't produce evidence to the contrary, it becomes very clear who has indulged in willful ignorance.

We provided you the evidence. You just denied that it exists. In effect, you're calling millions of scientists liars. You'd rather slander these innocent people, working hard to increase our knowledge, then threaten your ancient, primitive, superstitious world-view.

 

[Autodidact]

Response: You don't determine what a word means, the word itself does that already. That is not the definition of evolution. That is an "example" of evolution. Just because you are considered a biologists does not give you the authority over the english language.

"In fact, evolution can be precisely defined as any change in the frequency of alleles within a gene pool from one generation to the next." - Helena Curtis and N. Sue Barnes, Biology, 5th ed. 1989 Worth Publishers, p.974



We're talking about Biology. That's the Biologicial definition. And yes, being a Biologist actually does convey some authority about knowledge of Biology.

 

[Autodidact]

[QUOTE:Autodidact]So Allah put you in charge of deciding who is a true Muslim then?

Then how do you know that anyone who accepts ToE is not a True Muslim? (End quote)

Response: Because it's not in the qur'an.

So if something is not in the Qu'ran, it's not true? For example, President Obama is not President of the United States? I did not eat breakfast this morning?

Quote: Autodidact/
IT'S NOT ABOUT PROOF. It's. Not. About. Proof.(End quote)

Response: Thus ends the discussion.

[/QUOTE] And another chess game with a pigeon.

 

[Fatihah]

[QUOTE/painted wolf]I am using the biological definition of the word. When talking about biology no other definition is relevant.(End quote)

Response: And I am using "the" definition of the word. And yes, it is relevant.

Quoteainted Wolf/
If you want to play silly word games and demonstrate willful ignorance by it, that is your choice.

wa:do(End Quote)

Response: Likewise.

 

[Autodidact]

Fellow posters:

I'm sure that Fatihah is not a typical Muslim, and Muslims as a whole are actually able to learn and understand science as well as non-Muslims.

Fatihah is a good example of an anti-scientific world view. He sees the world in terms of primitive superstition, which makes him afraid to accept modern scientific learning--except of course when he needs to use his computer to communicate his barbaric, anti-knowledge world view.