Evolution?

[Vrindavana Das]

Vedas are timeless. They have emanated from Supreme Lord.

In the Bhagvad Gita, God says:

avajānanti māḿ mūḍhā
mānuṣīḿ tanum āśritam
paraḿ bhāvam ajānanto
mama bhūta-maheśvaram​

Fools deride Me when I descend in the human form. They do not know My transcendental nature as the Supreme Lord of all that be. B.G. 9.11

Supreme Personality of Godhead, although appearing like a human being, is not a common man. The Personality of Godhead, who conducts the creation, maintenance and annihilation of the complete cosmic manifestation, cannot be a human being. Yet there are many foolish men who consider Kṛṣṇa to be merely a powerful man and nothing more. Actually, He is the original Supreme Personality, as is confirmed in the Brahma-saḿhitā (īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ He is the Supreme Lord.

Supreme Lord Himself declares:

sarvasya cāhaḿ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo
mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaḿ ca
vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo
vedānta-kṛd veda-vid eva cāham​

I am seated in everyone's heart, and from Me come remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness. By all the Vedas, I am to be known. Indeed, I am the compiler of Vedānta, and I am the knower of the Vedas. B.G. 15.15

 

[zenzero]

Friend VD,

Vedas are timeless. They have emanated from Supreme Lord.

Yes, like Shantoham has quoted that Humans were created from the beginning irrespective of evolution, similarly the same stands for Vedas.
Vedas are written in Human languages which were developed by humans by the humans for the humans and to the humans.

Love & rgds

 

[Vrindavana Das]

Friend ZZ,

Vedas are written in Human languages which were developed by humans by the humans for the humans and to the humans.

Love & rgds

Vedas have been compiled by Srila Veda Vyasa. Srila Veda Vyasa is an accepted 'literary incarnation of God'. Shaktavesha Avtar.

The same is also supported by the above statement:

B.G. 15.15 "...By all the Vedas, I am to be known. Indeed, I am the compiler of Vedānta, and I am the knower of the Vedas."

Over to you for some scriptural evidence of your claim; outside of your personal understanding...

 

[zenzero]

Friend VD,

Have mentioned before that the guide here is the same CONSCIOUSNESS as what existence is composed off.
Veda Vyasa too had written vedas in human form to write in human language unless you are not living with the understanding of the PRESENT day human.

Please do not discuss whatever is outside of your understanding as that is the basis even for understanding what Srila Ved Vyasa wrote!

Love & rgds

 

[Vrindavana Das]

Friend ZZ,

Friend VD,

Have mentioned before that the guide here is the same CONSCIOUSNESS as what existence is composed off.
Veda Vyasa too had written vedas in human form to write in human language unless you are not living with the understanding of the PRESENT day human.

Please do not discuss whatever is outside of your understanding as that is the basis even for understanding what Srila Ved Vyasa wrote!

Love & rgds

I am having a hard time deciphering your words.

Of what I understand, I will say that I am ready to discuss, however, there is nothing that you are giving me for discussion. Even going by your theory, personal understanding should be basis for the practitioner alone. Not for others to follow...at least till such time he benefits and becomes an enlightened soul like Buddha, eligible to guide others.

If that is the case, then anything we say is rendered meaningless till we achieve that Consciousness.

If not, then there is no evidence from scriptures to back what you are saying for me to take as an authority on the subject. Is this what you are referring to when you say not to discuss what is outside our understanding.

If there is anything I have missed/not understood correctly, please let me know.

 

[zenzero]

Friend VD,

me to take as an authority on the subject

That is the point?
*YOU*; once that *you* itself is realized then no scoring is required.
There is none here to argue or discuss, at best share few pointers in the direction. Those who understand are worthy of understanding others have to still their minds firther to reach THAT understanding.

Love & rgds

 

[Vrindavana Das]

Friend ZZ,

Friend VD,


That is the point?
*YOU*; once that *you* itself is realized then no scoring is required.
There is none here to argue or discuss, at best share few pointers in the direction. Those who understand are worthy of understanding others have to still their minds firther to reach THAT understanding.

Love & rgds

Like I said earlier, you, I, he, she...everyone is an individual eternally. We will continue to remain so. The nature of soul is service. If we merge with that light, soul's need for activity/service will again make us fall down again and come back. So, it is wise to realize the higher truth...source of that consciousness, who is a Person - God. Engage in His devotional service.

na tv evāhaḿ jātu nāsaḿ
na tvaḿ neme janādhipāḥ
na caiva na bhaviṣyāmaḥ
sarve vayam ataḥ param​

Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be. B.G. 2.12

 

[zenzero]

Friend VD,

it is wise to realize the higher truth...source of that consciousness, who is a Person - God. Engage in His devotional service.

1. The source is a person??? [personal understanding differs]
2. When one is part of consciousness whatever is done is by and for HIS own self.
None is doing anything!

Love & rgds

 

[Vrindavana Das]

Friend ZZ,

Friend VD,


1. The source is a person??? [personal understanding differs]
2. When one is part of consciousness whatever is done is by and for HIS own self.
None is doing anything!

Love & rgds

1. The source is a person. All scriptures confirm the same.

hiranmayena patrena
satyasyapihitam mukham
tat tvam pushann apavrinu
satya-dharmaya drishtaye​

O my Lord, sustainer of all that lives, Your real face is covered by Your dazzling effulgence. Kindly remove that covering and exhibit Yourself to Your pure devotee. Sri Isopanishad - 15

In the Bhagavad-gita (14.27), the Lord explains His personal rays (brahmajyoti), the dazzling effulgence of His personal form, in this way:

brahmano hi pratishthaham
amritasyavyayasya ca
sasvatasya ca dharmasya
sukhasyaikantikasya ca​

"I am the basis of the impersonal Brahman, which is immortal, imperishable and eternal and is the constitutional position of ultimate happiness."

Brahman, Paramatma and Bhagavan are three aspects of the same Absolute Truth. Brahman is the aspect most easily perceived by the beginner; Paramatma, the Supersoul, is realized by those who have further progressed; and Bhagavan realization is the ultimate realization of the Absolute Truth.

This is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita (7.7), where Lord Krishna says that He is the ultimate concept of the Absolute Truth: mattah parataram nanyat. Therefore Krishna is the source of the brahmajyoti as well as the all-pervading Paramatma.

Later in the Bhagavad-gita (10.42) Krishna further explains:

atha va bahunaitena
kim jnatena tavarjuna
vishtabhyaham idam kritsnam
ekamsena sthito jagat​

"But what need is there, Arjuna, for all this detailed knowledge? With a single fragment of Myself I pervade and support this entire universe."

Of the childhood play between the Lord and His playmates, the cowherd boys, Sukadeva Gosvami says in Srimad-Bhagavatam (10.12.11):

ittham satam brahma-sukhanubhutya
dasyam gatanam para-daivatena
mayasritanam nara-darakena
sakam vijahruh krita-punya-punjah​

"The Personality of Godhead, who is perceived as the impersonal, blissful Brahman by the jnanis, who is worshiped as the Supreme Lord by devotees in the mood of servitorship, and who is considered an ordinary human being by mundane people, played with the cowherd boys, who had attained their position after accumulating many pious activities."

2. I have just confirmed (in my previous post) , with scriptural evidence, the duality & non-duality of soul, confirming it to be a different than God/Consciousness. Kindly go through.

 

[zenzero]

Friend VD,

Thank you.
However sorry that could not find anything from your response that states otherwise than what have stated.
Repeat that when in oneness with THAT there is no two no one to pray or prayed and so there is doer standing separated.

Love & rgds

 

[Vrindavana Das]

Friend ZZ,

Friend VD,

Thank you.
However sorry that could not find anything from your response that states otherwise than what have stated.
Repeat that when in oneness with THAT there is no two no one to pray or prayed and so there is doer standing separated.

Love & rgds

There is no proof in your post except personal understanding. Sorry to say, it is worthless.

 

[zenzero]

Friend VD,

it is worthless.

Yes, it depends who the jeweler is???

Love & rgds

 

[Vrindavana Das]

Friend ZZ,

Friend VD,


Yes, it depends who the jeweler is???

Love & rgds

I am an ordinary mortals with interest in scriptures, God and religion. This website is for such persons. It is not for jewelers.

Asides, I have always said that you are correct, but only partially. I have provided scriptural evidence also of the same earlier."...Absolute Truth is realized in three phases of understanding...."

If you are practicing the path, you must be reading some books, seeking some guidance etc. If that is so, it should not be a problem for you to provide evidence of what you are saying from those books/scriptures. Or is it that there a problem with accepting anything outside of personal understanding.

 

[zenzero]

Friend VD,

You read scriptures, and perceive from such readings.
Here readings are limited to confirmation of personal experiences.
The practice of dharma is not all related to reading scriptures. There are other paths under the banner of dharma rather each and every human walks his individual path which gets covered under the umbrella of dharma, am sure all beings in existence practice dharma.
Had requested [if not mistaken] to share other sections of RF as if you have read about Mahakasyap/Bodhidharma you would understand what DIRECT transmission is. Guatama only showered his blessings. If have to give any name as one who inspires would be his name that too in secret as if he is listening he would not be appreciative as that would be claiming him to even be an inspire r for someone as at best he would have said am sharing or reflecting TRUTH. If you understood the finger pointing towards the moon, it is your karma or else keep meditating.
This is Hinduism DIR though under dharmic but different to Buddhism DIR but still took the liberty to share for THAT understanding.
Those who are magicians bring out golden rings from the air etc, are giving their evidences of enlightenment to claim authority to claim they are avatars etc. Personally am just a being, human at best [not sure] but still trying but the path followed is one of DIRECT transmission and not through human interfaces at the moment.
As mentioned it is all open to sharing for them who can understand for others am just sorry!

Love & rgds

 

[Vrindavana Das]

Friend ZZ,

Friend VD,

The practice of dharma is not all related to reading scriptures. There are other paths under the banner of dharma rather each and every human walks his individual path which gets covered under the umbrella of dharma, am sure all beings in existence practice dharma.

Knowledge is to be learned in a proper and systematic way. Dharma is a science. Science of Soul and science of Consciousness/God.

Can I study the books of medicine on my own (or just follow my consciousness) and become a doctor? Can I study engineering books at home/follow my consciousness and become an engineer?

Friend, I will be thrown behind bars if I tried practicing in this way. If this is true for mundane subjects like science, how can you say Dharma does not need any scriptures/an authorized Guru or guide who has learned this spiritual science and can teach you? Do you mean God or that Consciousness is so cheap?!!

Your logic is flawed. Therefore there is no point in believing what you claim as 'personal understanding'.

Further, when asked, you have no scriptural evidence to prove what you are saying.

I can prove many more flaws in whatever more you have written. But then, it is not worth my time and effort, as you do not want to understand. Like you, I too am sorry!

 

[Shântoham]

Shrigurubhyo namaH

Friend Shantoham,

Personal understanding from what you mention is that: EXISTENCE is living HERE-NOW and since existence is eternal and limitless we find that to merge with THAT source is possible mostly for humans to end this bondage of form as after the human form the jiva will not appear in any form unless it wants to. So the pointers written in words is only good for the language of humans and so the Vedas are limited by, for & to humans.
[please correct, if there is anything against what have mentioned]

The Bible which similarly has limited itself to human existence and for this one life [in fact all the Abrahamic paths have] done so. So rebirth or reincarnation has been left out in scriptures of those paths as the enlightened ones do have realization of such matters too, but due to limitations of the understanding of the audiences due to their background limited the subject.

Love & rgds

Zenzero

In principle I have no objections to what you wrote, even if I have no idea what you mean when you say “…the jIva will not appear in any form unless it wants to…”.
It’s the “…unless it wants to…” that I don’t understand.
Traditional VedAnta utilizes technical terms such as jIva in a very precise and specific manner. Precision that often is lacking in public forums such as this one. As far as traditional VedAnta is concerned a jIva is a saMsAri and as such he continues to reincarnate as long as he remains a saMsAri.

Tat Sat BrahmArpaNamastu​

 

[zenzero]

Friend Shantoham,

What had mentioned would like to clarify further for our understanding and if have used a wrong label, do correct it.

after the human form the jiva will not appear in any form unless it wants to. So the pointers written in words is only good for the language of humans and so the Vedas are limited by, for & to humans.

What was meant is that those humans [jiva] who have reached to that state of Nirvikalpa samdhi or buddhahood then the cycle of birth and death is over meaning that such individuals have returned to source and to be again born in human form [jiva] is upto their wish [As humans we have no knowledge/idea] as that individual consciousness has completely merged with the universal consciousness but still if they are taking any further birth as human is could only be a wish!
Love & rgds

 

[jg22]

Zenzero,


My apologies for speaking off-topic (and if you aren't a native english speaker), but is there a reason why you don't use the singular first person pronoun (I) when you write? It can be difficult to parse your posts when the subject of a particular sentence is unclear due to omittal of the personal pronoun.

 

[zenzero]

Friend jg,

In fact am sorry that have failed in communicating as find that am not the communicator and what comes by way of pointers are shared.
Now if you ask me the proof from where it comes can only point towards existence which is the *whole* labelled differently in different cultures.
Can it be proved from scriptures. Yes scriptures are nothing but pointers towards truth which meditators share with existence which includes all beings including us humans. but since never mugged any lessons to secure marks even during the 17yrs of education but studied for an understanding of what IT IS!

Sorry for the failure to satisfy. At best always try to share.

Love & rgds

 

[Shântoham]

Friend Shantoham,

What had mentioned would like to clarify further for our understanding and if have used a wrong label, do correct it.

What was meant is that those humans [jiva] who have reached to that state of Nirvikalpa samdhi or buddhahood then the cycle of birth and death is over meaning that such individuals have returned to source and to be again born in human form [jiva] is upto their wish [As humans we have no knowledge/idea] as that individual consciousness has completely merged with the universal consciousness but still if they are taking any further birth as human is could only be a wish!
Love & rgds

Shrigurubhyo namaH

Zenzero

According to VedAnta once liberated a jIva does not come back.

Tat Sat BrahmArpaNamastu​