Ex Christians

[Vadergirl123]

Apologetics don't go very far with me.
Rape is a crime, and should be treated as such. We don't hear how a burglar is forced to work as an accountant for the man he robbed from, do we?

Again I don't know why God chose to deal with it the way he did.

 

[waitasec]

Really, but if everyone just lived how they wanted that wouldn't be a very good society. The U.S even tried somehing like that(the articles of confederation) and our founding father's created the constitution.

well no.
i live how i want to...
there is no problem. mutual respect and honesty is what i value.

 

[waitasec]

Good idea

Romans 2: 5But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS

what are you saying here?

and please don't duck lets have a respectful discourse...
i promise to hold my tongue.

 

[Vadergirl123]

Actually -- and I realize we're getting waaaaay off the original topic -- the English word “hell” in Scripture is used for four different things: Gehenna, Sheol, Hades, and Tartarus. Gehenna was merely a garbage dump, Sheol means simply the grave, and the latter two hail from Greek mythology.

Huh, very interesting.

Vadergirl -- getting back to the original topic of this thread, did you see my original post responding to that (129)? I think there were also a couple of other posts since then from folks addressing the original question that may have gotten lost in this thread’s derailment. Since that was your original subject, I wanted to be sure you didn't miss the responses pertaining to it.

I'll go check it out now. I'm trying to reply to all of them, but since I'm not on 24/7 a bunch of replies keep comming and I sometimes skip over them accidently, Sorry

 

[waitasec]

Oops I misread what you posted, I thought you were saying John wasn't real. Why should I believe what he(or any of the other apostles) wrote about God was false?(since it's consistent with the rest of scripture)

because that is circular logic.

"i believe the bible is the word of god because it says so."

you didn't believe me when i told you about the experiment, you needed it to be supported by a reliable source...

so what is this reliable source that you rely on that determines the bible is the word of god?

 

[outhouse]

So I've read a couple of posts about people claiming to be "ex christians" and I'm curious as to what they mean exactly. If you are an ex-christain were you in a relationship with Jesus Christ and decided you wanted the relationship to end? Was it that the belief of christiantity stopped making sense or something else entirely? Please let me know.

as a teenager relitives tried to explain the trinity and I sadi WTF????????


once I realized how people created mythology as they needed for their own needs. I was done.


I see jesus as a mortal man who left a impression on enough people that they talked about him enough that mythology grew around him. That evolution is as obvious as gravity

 

[waitasec]

It's not my opinion.

prove that it is fact.

Define heaven(I'm not sure we're thinking of the same place)? I personally would be very sad to have friends and relatives go to hell. However I can't force them to go to accept Christ, it's their choice. Also heaven is about getting to see Jesus and living with him for eternity, so I'll still enjoy it.

heaven is being with god.

see this is where i find a huge disconnect.
it is with our way of dealing with each other that plays an important role if we are to go to be with god in the after life, but when it comes to our relationships with those who do not make it to heaven we are all of a sudden disconnected from them, that doesn't make sense to me.

my life is about the connections i make with other people

do you have children? i have an 8 yr old son, and if i were to know that he was suffering for an eternity while i was in heaven....heaven would cease to be heaven and i can't imagine why god would take my connection away from my son, a person that means the world to me a person that helps me become a better person...

 

[Vadergirl123]

If the Bible is literal, then women are less than man. (1 Corinthians 14:34, 1 Corinthians 11:3). Why would homosexuality be wrong? It's love between two people of the same sex.

Not less than them exactly, but in marriage a women is suppose to submit to her husband. It's wrong because God says so.

If a person is born in the wrong country, then he/she will be less likely to follow your God, and thus they are at a disadvantage.

They'll have a chance to accept Christ.

A person could be the most loving person ever, never harming anyone, always helping others and still this person would be tortured for all eternity, just because he/she never believed in God.

No, you don't go to hell because you don't believe in God. You go because you're a sinner. So if that person has ever sinned than yes they will go to hell.

Hell isn't a fair punishment. It is torture, for all eternity, just because you commited a single sin: not believing in a God that gives no clear evidence of His existence. It is way too harsh for any crime whatsoever.

I'm not trying to sound rude, but why isn't it fair? Because you say it's not? And you seem to think a person's only option is hell. God's given us the opportunity to chose eternal life in heaven. You can't blame God if you go to hell.

A loving God should be more loving than humans, and I would never ever send anyone to eternal torture, no matter how evil the deeds this person committed. Should I be more loving and forgiving than a perfect God?

God is more loving then we are. Would you send your son to die a terrible death for people who are sinners, knowing that alot of them will reject his death or hate him?

There cannot be both hell and a loving God. Therefore we must either conclude either that hell isn't literal, but rather a metaphor for the end of life, or that God isn't loving.

Yes their can be, again the God of the Bible isn't just a teddy bear God who only wants you to be happy(he's also not a tyrant). He's a just God and there's a punishment for sin, which is hell. However God gives US the opprotunity to chose heaven.

 

[Vadergirl123]

For me it’s a combination of things, which, depending on the day, take prominence in my spiritual outlook.

Initially, it was the realization that the bible, while containing great nuggets of wisdom, does contain what I would now consider contradictions. I used to think they were just apparent contradictions, but after some debates in another, primarily Christian, forum, I realized those contradictions might be actual.

I have since undergone so much transformation in my spiritual journey that to call myself “Christian” -- at least in any conventional, orthodox sense -- would be inaccurate .

Scripture describes Jesus as referring to himself as the Door or the Gate through which one goes to reach God. Well, I think it's safe to say that, for the 40-plus years that I've been a Christian, I have been going through "through Jesus" in just about every sense of the term there is.

I figure if I were to continue lingering in that Doorway -- or hanging out at that Gate, not taking a step further than that, then perhaps I could still call myself a Christian. But I have since moved through the doorway to the Father, and am now directing my devotion to God Himself. For me, Jesus was, indeed, a door, but evidently he was not the destination. Just like any doorway or gateway, he was a means toward an end (in this case, God) as opposed to the end in and of itself.

Scripture mentions that Jesus eventually hands over the Kingdom to God. In a sense, that's just what happened to the Kingdom within me. Jesus handed it over to God, the latter who is now my primary focus.

Is it fair for me to assume you don't believe Jesus is God?(I'm pretty sure you don't, but I don't want to make an unfair assesement) and what exactly would you say "moved you through" that doorway?

 

[waitasec]

Not less than them exactly, but in marriage a women is suppose to submit to her husband. It's wrong because God says so.

thats it?
no questions, not even curious as to why it's wrong.

 

[Vadergirl123]

ok now i remember why i asked you about hell.

you don't think the threat of hell is a way of presenting an ultimatum?

and by ultimatum i mean this:

: a final proposition, condition, or demand; especially : one whose rejection will end negotiations and cause a resort to force or other direct action
Ultimatum - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Hmm well maybe sort of(for some people I'm sure the thought of going to hell is so terrifying that they feel they have to get saved. Although I'd think they were kind of missing the point of christianity) For me though it was more of knowing there's a God out there and by reading his word discovering that he loved me, and wanted a relationship with me.

 

[waitasec]

Hmm well maybe sort of(for some people I'm sure the thought of going to hell is so terrifying that they feel they have to get saved. Although I'd think they were kind of missing the point of christianity) For me though it was more of knowing there's a God out there and by reading his word discovering that he loved me, and wanted a relationship with me.

so then what purpose does the idea of hell serve exactly?

i mean, i wouldn't want my child to love me because i threaten to throw him into the fireplace if he didn't.


and like you said...there are many many people who do feel this threat and do not question god because they are afraid to.
and when making comments like "homosexuality is wrong because god says so" doesn't seem like you ever put any thought into why it is wrong...would say that statement was a statement based on blind faith?

 

[Vadergirl123]

After the Revolutionary war they wrote the articles of confederation, but then after a while they decided to write a new constitution, which made that whole fight with the federals and anti-federals. The newborn USA did actualy run on the Articles of Confederation for a while, but it wasn't a "Do whatever you want" document like you seem to be implying.

To some degree it was, each state could basically run themsleves the way they wanted.

 

[Vadergirl123]

He failed in that he didn't help me when I needed him most both emotionally and spiritually despite how much I honestly prayed to him.

What did you need him to do(or is that too personal a question?)

It's "Satan" in the Jewish sense... which can be more than one thing simultaneously actually.

So what are some characteristics of this Satan?

 

[ForeverFaithful]

1.) Jesus only being in the grave for a day and a half.

The 3 days and 3 nights was just an expression for something done on one day, taking an entire day, and then ending on another. It is evident in scripture that Jesus died on Friday, and rose on Sunday.

2.) People going to heaven.

Heaven is just language for the presence of God, which is where the saints who have departed are.

3.) People being given eternal life for sinning/people being tourtured forever.

Something the Pharisees believed actually, we see very earlier on in Christian writing the developement of the concepts of hell long before the the fourth century. Hell opposed to Heaven is the seperation from God, whatever that might be.

[quote
4.) Doing away with God's sabbaths and feasts.
5.) God's way of life (i.e. His laws) being done away with.
Just to mention a few.[/quote]

Keeping Jewish holidays and purity laws were abandoned in the first century (Roman 14)

 

[-Peacemaker-]

several, but if you dont know them i dont have time to carter to your ignorance to get the actual verses, im sure others have done so already

stone gays
stone kids who mouth
stone rapists
stone incest
dont do x dont do y
x,y, and z kind of people wont go to heaven
wages of sin is death, but everyone is a sinner out of compulisve nature

ect ect

he punishes people all the time for their inclinations, or calls for it

Do you know the definition of the word "inclination"? Allow me:

in·cli·na·tion/ˌinkləˈnāSHən/
Noun

• 1. A person's natural tendency to act or feel in a particular way; a disposition or propensity.Eg: "a scientist by inclination".
  2. An interest in or liking for (something).Eg: "an inclination for things with moving parts".

The sins you mention (rape, incest, etc) are all instances of people ACTING on an inclination.

 

[waitasec]

Do you know the definition of the word "inclination"? Allow me:

in·cli·na·tion/ˌinkləˈnāSHən/
Noun

• 1. A person's natural tendency to act or feel in a particular way; a disposition or propensity.Eg: "a scientist by inclination".
  2. An interest in or liking for (something).Eg: "an inclination for things with moving parts".

The sins you mention (rape, incest, etc) are all instances of people ACTING on an inclination.

do you mean everyone is inclined to rape someone

 

[Vadergirl123]

I'm sorry, but that seems to be simply an excuse for the behavior exhibited by that tribe at that time.
I can accept that the rules and laws of the Bible reflect the perceived needs and desires of that particular society.

It's not really an excuse. Isn't what you're basically saying that "we believe God is wrong because we know a better more efficient way to deal with the situation?"

However, I see nothing Divine in the majority of the rules and laws commanded in Genesis through Deuteronomy.

What's something "Divine" you want to see in them?

Have you read the entirety of the Levitical Laws?

No, I'm reading through them now actually.

 

[Vadergirl123]

I would have protected the innocent.

How eactly? What would you have done? Were you the one who mentioned stoning earlier in the thread?

 

[waitasec]

here's another thing.

i wonder how many innocent girls were stoned to death because they didn't bleed on their wedding night.
i guess those that fall through the cracks were not worth it...and their needless painful execution wasn't really important.