Ex Christians

[waitasec]

Yes I've read this passage, and the woman was stoned for, "being promiscous in her father's house"(vs 21) she's not stoned because she wouldn't bleed on her wedding night.

no not at all...


13 If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her,


and can "prove" she's not a virgin by the absence of blood on the bed sheet she's a whore...

so if she's bad in bed, what good is she?

excellent.

 

[waitasec]

I agree, so you liked what I said?

you made a judgment call that was inaccurate.

Actually my criteria is based on the Bible, and yours is based on what you think is right, right?

right. it's based on faith.
do you have something against faith?

I wouldn't want to spend eternity in heaven if God wasn't there. You said something's not as enjoyable if you're not spending it with the one you love.

Spending eternity with God is what I want, and I'd rather spend it with him then anyone else( for me of course most of my family and friends are christains. However even if they weren't I'd rather spend eternity with God then with them in hell)

nice ducking. you do realize there are other people besides yourself that have loved ones that are not believers, right?
jeez, the lack of foresight is a little bit unnerving.
recently i was in yosemite...my husband couldn't make it...i had a nice time but i missed him. so if you were in heaven knowing your loved ones were in eternal torment, you are saying you could ignore that...interesting.

I've already given an example(Sandy's letters), which shows why I think there's no reason to believe the Bible isn't true.

your example of sandy's letter shows me your inclination towards wishful thinking.

 

[waitasec]

I wanted to make sure they were defining a christain in the same sense I was

and the way you define christianity is the way christianity is defined, right?

 

[waitasec]

Would you say reason itself has evolved over the years?

 

[waitasec]

I already told Mystic that I'm not "calling people out"

well you did say you wanted to see if they were true christians to begin with...
and how is that determined...you say the bible...but that really isn't saying anything at all, since the bible is understood subjectively.

or are you saying your subjective understanding of the bible will determine if people were real christians at one point?

 

[Astravalon]

Actually my criteria is based on the Bible, and yours is based on what you think is right

Technically, if one is basing their criteria on the Bible, they
are, likewise, basing their criteria on what they think is right.

-

 

[waitasec]

Technically, if one is basing their criteria on the Bible, they
are, likewise, basing their criteria on what they think is right.

-

:clap

frubals!!!

 

[waitasec]

However God doesn't give us the command to manipulate other humans.

do you think taking any type of medication for headaches, as an example, is manipulating the body?

 

[Nakosis]

Ah okay I see where you're comming from.

Well what do you think then of my definition of a Christian.

A Christians is someone who chooses to follow the commandments of Jesus?

That should be the bottom line I think. Unfortunately different denominations like to add additional requirements on top of that.

I think there is probably enough to argue in the specifics of Jesus' teachings. However I think any trying to follow those teachings to the best of their ability could rightfully be considered a Christian.

I suspect many left because of these additional requirements other men added to qualify someone as being a Christian.

 

[Vadergirl123]

Sure you have. You've also argued quite a bit on how the reasons for people leaving the faith and their perspectives of God is unfair. My question has been why.

I never said anyone's reasons for leaving Christianity were unfair. Even when you posted I didn't say your reasons were unfair.
I also haven't said someone's perspective about God is an unfair one. However I have said the God they're describing isn't the one in the Bible, but that's only when I've gotten into an argument with someone. And the argument started with them asking me a question about what I believe, or attacking what I believe.

It's been peppered throughout, and Christian denominations specifically. I'm mobile right now and I still don't know how to copy-paste, but the first one is on page 2 or 3 and then is stated again more frequently as the thread has evolved.

Ah okay yeah I just looked at the post where I said that. There are denominations out there that don't teach what the Bible says.

Your posts have been very sweet and at the same time very deft in injecting a "we should understand that God is all powerful and Jesus is the only way" argument in most if not all your responses.

When I get into an argument with someone you're right I have used those to some degree. However I've only gotten into those, "arguments" when soemone asks me something or attacked what I believe. But I DON'T say those things if they just explain why they left.

This is why I suspect the intention hasn't been so much to discuss why others have left, but that you can prove how Christianity, and specifically your Christianity, is right.

My intention has been to discuss why people left, and this thread has shown me that. I'm sorry if it hasn't shown you that. I'm not trying to prove christianity. In fact I don't even really know what you mean by that statement or how one woudl even go about "proving christianity".
It's not really my christianity though. I didn't come up with it myself(it's based on the Bible) so I can't call it "My christianity."

 

[Jacksnyte]

It is "your christianity" when yours differs from others (who, by the way are just as sure as you that they are right, and you are wrong in how you interperate the Bible) who identify as christians. I would suggest that if you are interested in what other people believe and why, you go to the services of other churches, read literature about it written by someone of that faith, research world religions and their origins. Don't just swallow whole whatever you were indoctrinated with without really knowing where this information is coming from.

 

[waitasec]

Ah okay yeah I just looked at the post where I said that. There are denominations out there that don't teach what the Bible says.

i bet they would disagree...so who do you trust?
who do you trust?


[youtube]2JVqUuNZxXA[/youtube]
Batman - Joker's Address to the People - YouTube

 

[Alceste]

My intention has been to discuss why people left, and this thread has shown me that. I'm sorry if it hasn't shown you that. I'm not trying to prove christianity. In fact I don't even really know what you mean by that statement or how one woudl even go about "proving christianity".
It's not really my christianity though. I didn't come up with it myself(it's based on the Bible) so I can't call it "My christianity."

It isn't based on the Bible, though. I think that's been well established through our discussions of scripture, your lack of familiarity with even the most famous parables and your poor understanding of very simple and unambiguous verses. Might it be based on what some random guy at a pulpit told you the Bible says, rather than what the Bible itself says?

 

[Alceste]

It is "your christianity" when yours differs from others (who, by the way are just as sure as you that they are right, and you are wrong in how you interperate the Bible) who identify as christians. I would suggest that if you are interested in what other people believe and why, you go to the services of other churches, read literature about it written by someone of that faith, research world religions and their origins. Don't just swallow whole whatever you were indoctrinated with without really knowing where this information is coming from.

This is the best post I've seen in this thread. Frubals!

Whoops, I've been frubaling you too much. Accolades!

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I never said anyone's reasons for leaving Christianity were unfair. Even when you posted I didn't say your reasons were unfair.
I also haven't said someone's perspective about God is an unfair one. However I have said the God they're describing isn't the one in the Bible, but that's only when I've gotten into an argument with someone. And the argument started with them asking me a question about what I believe, or attacking what I believe.




Ah okay yeah I just looked at the post where I said that. There are denominations out there that don't teach what the Bible says.


When I get into an argument with someone you're right I have used those to some degree. However I've only gotten into those, "arguments" when soemone asks me something or attacked what I believe. But I DON'T say those things if they just explain why they left.


My intention has been to discuss why people left, and this thread has shown me that. I'm sorry if it hasn't shown you that. I'm not trying to prove christianity. In fact I don't even really know what you mean by that statement or how one woudl even go about "proving christianity".
It's not really my christianity though. I didn't come up with it myself(it's based on the Bible) so I can't call it "My christianity."

I don't think I've ever seen backpedalling applied so quickly.

Carry on, Vadergirl.

 

[Vadergirl123]

It isn't based on the Bible, though. I think that's been well established through our discussions of scripture, your lack of familiarity with even the most famous parables and your poor understanding of very simple and unambiguous verses. Might it be based on what some random guy at a pulpit told you the Bible says, rather than what the Bible itself says?

Yes it is based on the Bible. Why would I invent a branch of christianity?? It's not based on what my pastor told me, it's based on the Bible. I am familiar with the parrables that were mentioned. You even said you were making assumptions with that one verse, and for the verse having to do with murder you seem to HAVE to go by the english translations instead of the greek or hebrew. I don't have a poor understanding of them.

 

[Vadergirl123]

give me an example of what this means in terms of tolerance?

Exactly what it says, you love people, or show Christ's love to them.

 

[Vadergirl123]

so you compared yourself and determined your self worth to other people?
interesting.
Yes

and what do you think they would say...their belief is based on convenience?

Who's they? If you mean other people then not all of them base their beliefs on the Bible.

 

[Vadergirl123]

No, I'm conjuring up a logical analogy in which a person with a gun puts it to your head and tells you to follow their rules, and that the logic you apply to God could just as easily be applied to that individual.

It's different with God. Yes a person with a gun(or the power) could then chose whatever rules they want. However I don't have to obey them and a human can't be in power forever. It's not possible. Someone will eventually overtake them.

You've not answered my question. Do you believe I will go to hell for not believing in the existence of God and for believing that if said God existed he would be deserving of nothing but scorn and derision?

I said you go to hell for being a sinner, so if you've sinned then yes you're going to hell.

And why does that justify him telling us what to do and punishing us when we don't do it?

First off God doesn't always punish people who don't do what he says. Seccond God has every right to do whatever he wants because he's an infinite perfect being

But you don't know what God wants, so how can you trust the Bible's word? You either know or you do not know, which is it?

Right I can't know without the Bible. I have no reason to not trust the Bible's God's word.

It's not an assumption, it's basic logic.

In other words It's a logical assumption.

Why can't he allow sin to be in heaven? Isn't he perfect? Couldn't he just destroy all sin and allow all people into heaven? Would not a perfect, loving God do that?

God can't stand sin. Destroy sin?? We're all sinners and have all sinned. Do you want God to destroy every human being????

Honestly, I don't think you yourself have thought very hard about the God you have formed in your head.

I haven't really sat down and thought to myself, "what should my God be like." If that's what you're saying. The God I beleive in is based on the Bible.
Also if I was going to form my own God, he probably wouldn't be like the BIblical God.

 

[Vadergirl123]

"Exactly"?

Yeah, you said no one can take the gun away from God. I said exactly meaning no one else can assert authority over him.

The gun is Hell because it's a force that acts to prevent actual free choice in the person to whom the force is being applied.

Okay it's hell to you. I was thinking of it terms of an authority. No one can take away God's authority.

Why should a single God decide when he's shown to be morally corrupt?

You haven't really showed me that God's morally corrupt. Are you saying he's morally corrupt because what he says is moral goes against what soemone else says/believes?