Experiencing God

[Cephus]

And that's a fair answer.

But it's not an answer that the religious want anything to do with when it comes to their beliefs. They are not willing to reconsider their beliefs based on new information, in fact, they didn't come to their beliefs rationally at all. They don't care about objective evidence, they don't care about their beliefs corresponding to reality, so long as it makes them feel good, they're going to believe it and then criticize anyone who points that fact out.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Sorry, this is where it gets personal. I won't tell you my experiences of God.

Earlier, you went on about how important it is to investigate claims. Now you decide to deny others the opportunity to investigate your claims? Seems a bit contradictory.

I'm also not sure why experiences you say are common to all believers would be "personal". How about you describe someone else's experience instead? You say you've investigated them, right?

But I will say this, because of my experiences of God, I know that God knows me, and that is most comforting to me.

That sounds lovely, but completely useless to anyone else trying to figure out whether you experienced God or not.

Read what Jesus said. Go online, learn about the Holy Spirit. Read books that give glory to God as opposed to articles attempting to tear Him down.

Exactly which books do you think I've been reading?

Love and obey God, and you will know the experience that you are missing.

You're putting the cart before the horse. I can't obey something until I believe that it exists.

BTW there is only one God. And everyone misperceives Him differently.

... which speaks to part of the problem here: you can't rightly say "I experienced God" without being able to say what an experience of God would be like. The fact that all these people can have such misperceptions tells me that we haven't answered the fundamental question: what would "experiencing God" be like? Until this question is answered, you can't reasonably answer the question "is this person's experience an experience of God?"

 

[Sonofason]

If you doubt you would be able to tell whether you were experiencing having your teeth brushed with the intangible toothbrush, how come you are able to tell that you have experienced something else that is also intangible?

Apparently, God can be tangible when He chooses to be tangible. I'm not in the business of designing gods, so I'm not sure what causes them to function as they do. Perhaps you can explain it better.

 

[Sonofason]

If we take what all religion's say and cut out all that is contradictory then I don't think that even atheists would object to having it.

Perhaps, I don't know. I personally am not willing to remove one word from the Bible, but I will always welcome additional knowledge that helps me to understand the scriptures better.

 

[Sonofason]

But it's not an answer that the religious want anything to do with when it comes to their beliefs. They are not willing to reconsider their beliefs based on new information, in fact, they didn't come to their beliefs rationally at all. They don't care about objective evidence, they don't care about their beliefs corresponding to reality, so long as it makes them feel good, they're going to believe it and then criticize anyone who points that fact out.

My friend. You're talking about me. I am often considering and sometimes reconsidering my beliefs. If I were to criticize you right now, it would be because your not relating facts. Or, if you are, those facts do not apply to me whatsoever.

My faith in God came to me completely by reason. And as a result, it seems apparent to me that my faith in God has gotten God's attention. And in turn God has made it very clear to me that He's noticed, and knows who I am.

 

[Sonofason]

Earlier, you went on about how important it is to investigate claims. Now you decide to deny others the opportunity to investigate your claims? Seems a bit contradictory.

I'm sorry, but your faith in God is between you and God. I'll tell you what I did, but I'm not going into details about my personal experiences. I'm sorry, it's personal. You're not my responsibility. You are your own responsibility. You are God's responsibility. There was someone in my life that I grew to know and develop a great respect for who was a Christian, and He convinced me that if I wanted to know God, that I had to start reading the Bible. And I did. And I saw so much truth in it I believed it. And because I believed it, I experienced God. And since then, I have often experienced God's presence, reassuring me when I am on the right path, and chastising me when I am not.

My dear friend who pointed me in the right direction did not have to delve deep into his own personal relationship with God. He earned my respect and my trust. I saw something different in Him than I see in most people, and it was a deep genuine love for God. I wanted that for myself. He just pointed me in the right direction. Perhaps you need to find such a person in your life; Aah, that's if your even interested. Many people reject God. Perhaps such a person was already put in your life but you rejected him. I don't know. But you're not my responsibility. I'm just pointing in the direction you need to go if you want to know God and experience God for yourself.

I'm also not sure why experiences you say are common to all believers would be "personal". How about you describe someone else's experience instead? You say you've investigated them, right?

Seeking and Finding Wholeness » Conclusion On The Tingling, GooseBumps, Goose Bumpy, Static Electric Sensation
Perhaps this will give you a sense of the physical aspect of my experiences of God. I hope it helps.

That sounds lovely, but completely useless to anyone else trying to figure out whether you experienced God or not.

There's nothing to figure out here. You're not going to have a clue if I've experienced God, until you do.

Exactly which books do you think I've been reading?

I really don't know. I only assume that you are not reading spiritual material. Why don't you tell me what you are reading.

You're putting the cart before the horse. I can't obey something until I believe that it exists.


... which speaks to part of the problem here: you can't rightly say "I experienced God" without being able to say what an experience of God would be like. The fact that all these people can have such misperceptions tells me that we haven't answered the fundamental question: what would "experiencing God" be like? Until this question is answered, you can't reasonably answer the question "is this person's experience an experience of God?"

It really doesn't matter if I've experienced God, or if you could somehow know if someone is experiencing God. As I said, you're not going to know if anyone has experienced God until you have experienced God.

Look you have the mentality that you have. You are either drawn to God, or you are not. Either God is drawn to you, or there is some reason He is not. I'd be worried about that if I were you. If the Bible hasn't affected you after your first reading of it, I really don't think several successive readings are going to change anything. You're apparently not paying attention. Something is going on inside of you that is not allowing you to connect with God, and I honestly can't say what that is. I hope that changes for you very soon. If God is not getting your attention now, I can only hope that He grabs your attention very soon.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'm sorry, but your faith in God is between you and God. I'll tell you what I did, but I'm not going into details about my personal experiences. I'm sorry, it's personal.

Don't go into your own experiences, then. Go into the experiences of other people.

... you know: those people who, unlike you, were happy to share their experiences with others. This is how you were able to figure out that your experiences and theirs were similar, right?

Seeking and Finding Wholeness » Conclusion On The Tingling, GooseBumps, Goose Bumpy, Static Electric Sensation
Perhaps this will give you a sense of the physical aspect of my experiences of God. I hope it helps.

Tingles and goosebumps? Really? This is the "experience of God" you've been going on about?

There's nothing to figure out here. You're not going to have a clue if I've experienced God, until you do.

I really don't know. I only assume that you are not reading spiritual material. Why don't you tell me what you are reading.

I'm sorry, it's personal.

It really doesn't matter if I've experienced God, or if you could somehow know if someone is experiencing God. As I said, you're not going to know if anyone has experienced God until you have experienced God.

This isn't how experiences that are rooted in reality work. If a person can't answer the question "how do I tell that a particular experience is an 'experience of God'?", then they don't have a rational foundation to say that they've experienced God.

 

[Iridessa]

So I guess that leaves me with a question for those who have had God experiences. What do you think it was that you did which enabled you to experience what you experienced? What did you do to invoke God's attention?

I think simply being open to such things can lead one to having a spiritual experience.

 

[Sonofason]

Don't go into your own experiences, then. Go into the experiences of other people.

... you know: those people who, unlike you, were happy to share their experiences with others. This is how you were able to figure out that your experiences and theirs were similar, right?



Tingles and goosebumps? Really? This is the "experience of God" you've been going on about?




I'm sorry, it's personal.


This isn't how experiences that are rooted in reality work. If a person can't answer the question "how do I tell that a particular experience is an 'experience of God'?", then they don't have a rational foundation to say that they've experienced God.

You don't need to know what a butterfly is in order to experience one. But if you should ever learn what a butterfly is, after having experienced one, you will know that it was a butterfly that you had experienced.

When exactly do you get tingles and goosebumps? If you tell me you get them when your cold, we're definitely not talking about the same thing.

 

[Sonofason]

I think simply being open to such things can lead one to having a spiritual experience.

That could be a right answer. It's certainly an important part to it.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I am amazed that so many believers that have had "spiritual" experiences won't share their experiences with others.

What I don't understand is the assumption that spiritual experience is anything to do with God, or with some external influence.

 

[Koldo]

Apparently, God can be tangible when He chooses to be tangible. I'm not in the business of designing gods, so I'm not sure what causes them to function as they do. Perhaps you can explain it better.

If, for example, I brought to you a tangible toothbrush and told you that I had just turned that intangible toothbrush into something tangible, how would you determine whether the intangible toothbrush and the tangible one are the same?

 

[Koldo]

You don't need to know what a butterfly is in order to experience one. But if you should ever learn what a butterfly is, after having experienced one, you will know that it was a butterfly that you had experienced.

How does that work when it comes down to god though?
Butterflies can be described in ways that would relate to our ( five ) senses.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

]

You don't need to know what a butterfly is in order to experience one. But if you should ever learn what a butterfly is, after having experienced one, you will know that it was a butterfly that you had experienced.

So... you learned what a God is, compared this to what you experienced, and realized that the experience was from God?

This suggests a question: what's God? How can we tell the difference between God and other things?

A person who knows what a butterfly is would be able to describe a butterfly. You claim to know what God is, so please describe God.

When exactly do you get tingles and goosebumps? If you tell me you get them when your cold, we're definitely not talking about the same thing.

Goosebumps are associated with strong emotions like fear and sexual arousal. It's an autonomic response.

But let's set that aside for a moment. Pretend we don't know what causes goosebumps. Please fill in the blank:

- I get goosebumps (when it's not cold).
- therefore, ____________.
- therefore, God must have done it.

What goes in that space to make it make sense?

 

[Sonofason]

What I don't understand is the assumption that spiritual experience is anything to do with God, or with some external influence.

I'm not sure why you would assume that God is an external influence. If God is everywhere at all times then He is both on the outside and on the inside of each and every one of us. I imagine that it is quite probable that God is integral to the fabric of everything that is existent.

 

[Thruve]

What if I told you that I am a friend to Michael Jordan ?
I haven't ever talked to him in person though, if you know what I mean. Only through the phone. And I haven't ever heard his voice beforehand ( not even on the TV ). One night he called me and spoke to me, and ever since we have been talking every once in a while.
But it is Michael Jordan. He tells me so when we talk, and I am absolutely certain I am talking to Michael Jordan, because I experience it so.

Also, I will take offense if you say that my belief, MY CERTAINTY, is unfounded. Just so you know.

Oh this is good.

 

[Koldo]

Oh this is good.

Then click on the "Like" button at the lower right corner of that post. Thank you.

 

[mystic64]

But it's not an answer that the religious want anything to do with when it comes to their beliefs. They are not willing to reconsider their beliefs based on new information, in fact, they didn't come to their beliefs rationally at all. They don't care about objective evidence, they don't care about their beliefs corresponding to reality, so long as it makes them feel good, they're going to believe it and then criticize anyone who points that fact out.

Only if one's concept of "faith" is so wide and vague as to be meaningless. If everything is just faith then faith has no meaning. Unfortunately, there are a lot of theists who try to use the word "faith" in the broadest conceivable sense so they can pretend everyone has faith of some sort, therefore nobody can possibly criticize their own particular brand of blind faith.

Humm? Cephus, your blind faith is in science and your belief, which makes you feel good, is based on this blind faith in science and the words of the gods of science. There is not any difference between you and most theists. I do not have any faith in anything, yet I do believe there is a high probability for the existence of God and some of the other gods or forces at work with inteligence that are at this time not understand. And, this belief is based on years of personal experiences with these forces that include God and this belief has absolutely nothing to do with faith because I have absolutely zero faith in anything.

 

[Sonofason]

If, for example, I brought to you a tangible toothbrush and told you that I had just turned that intangible toothbrush into something tangible, how would you determine whether the intangible toothbrush and the tangible one are the same?

I'm not sure I understand the question. If something is completely intangible, I do not see how someone could know it existed at all. We perceive, as far as I know, through our five senses. What is extra-sensory perception? Do human beings have it? We do not fully understand the human body. We do not understand fully the human mind. If there is such a thing as spiritual knowledge, which I believe there is, I have no idea how one perceives it. I don't believe that anyone does know, yet there are people perceiving things all the time that they ought not be capable of perceiving.

I use to play in a band. We had a show to put on in Philadelphia, about an hour from my home. I was presently living with my grandfather. Our drummer was going to have a BBQ the following day, and I had decided to stay at his place for the night so that I could help him set up for the party the following day, and save myself some driving time. The following morning something felt very wrong to me. I became very anxious and got the "feeling" that I needed to get home right away. I left immediately. When I arrived home, there were cops and ambulances in my driveway. I ran inside to find my grandfather had suffered a major heart attack. Paramedics were beginning to work with him. He was conscious, and I was able to speak with him and to try to comfort him for about five minutes, until he lost consciousness. He died an hour later in the hospital.

How could I have possibly known that getting home was so urgent?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'm not sure I understand the question. If something is completely intangible, I do not see how someone could know it existed at all. We perceive, as far as I know, through our five senses. What is extra-sensory perception? Do human beings have it? We do not fully understand the human body. We do not understand fully the human mind. If there is such a thing as spiritual knowledge, which I believe there is, I have no idea how one perceives it. I don't believe that anyone does know, yet there are people perceiving things all the time that they ought not be capable of perceiving.

I use to play in a band. We had a show to put on in Philadelphia, about an hour from my home. I was presently living with my grandfather. Our drummer was going to have a BBQ the following day, and I had decided to stay at his place for the night so that I could help him set up for the party the following day, and save myself some driving time. The following morning something felt very wrong to me. I became very anxious and got the "feeling" that I needed to get home right away. I left immediately. When I arrived home, there were cops and ambulances in my driveway. I ran inside to find my grandfather had suffered a major heart attack. Paramedics were beginning to work with him. He was conscious, and I was able to speak with him and to try to comfort him for about five minutes, until he lost consciousness. He died an hour later in the hospital.

How could I have possibly known that getting home was so urgent?

You didn't know.

This is called counting the hits and ignoring the misses. When our intuition tells us something, if it's wrong, we don't pay much attention; if it's right, we assume that this is significant.