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F.B.I raids the office of Trump’s personal lawyer.

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Predictably, Trump is responding with a rambling, grumbling tirade of lies, the over-arching one being that he is the victim of an unprecedented Democrat witch hunt.

Enter Geoffrey Berman. :D

The chuckling you hear in the background is almost certainly coming from Jeff Sessions.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Quite interesting! I wonder what they gave the judge who issued the warrant as a justifiable reason for the raid?
The probable cause standard for a search and seizure of documents of a subject attorney is the same as it is in any other case. Given the circumstances here, in which the President and his personal attorney are among the investigation subjects, we can be confident that there was more than sufficient evidence supporting probable cause for a search warrant. Apparently part of this evidence included the information involving Cohen that Mueller uncovered, which he passed along to the DOJ criminal division. The DOJ requirements for seeking a search warrant of a subject attorney are more stringent than ordinary, as spelled out in the US Attorneys Manual. In particular, there must be a “privilege team,” judge or special master, who is not involved in the case or the search, who must review questionable documents so that those involved in the case and the search do not view or seize privileged documents. The particular procedures that the DOJ implemented in this regard were undoubtedly specified in the application for the warrant. Certainly no judge would issue such a search warrant without being satisfied that a proper review process is in place.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
.


This has become diversionary. Being in the profession of getting paid for sexual acts isn't mutually exclusive with having sex without being paid.
Got it, so you just brought it up but has nothing to do with the main points. That's why I initially ignored that aspect of your post and went straight for the important stuff which you did not comment on.
 

Underhill

Well-Known Member
If this involves the porn star, both Cohen and Trump assert that Cohen was acting on his own. If so, just who is the 'privileged' client?

Exactly right. Trump was trying to protect the privelage by claiming Cohen is his lawyer but managed to botch that when he made the statement that he knew nothing about the payment and he had no idea where the money came from.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Given the two tag lines being tossed around ...

Saturday night massacre, and
wag the dog ...
I would much prefer the former since it's likely the one with the least collateral damage.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Why don't these investigations just hold off, until after Trump's presidency?!! Grief! Tackle the country's major problems together, unitedly (bipartisan**), then resume the investigations!

Doesn't anybody else agree??
The Nation's got business to do, and at the helm is a man hounded left and right by legal issues and worries!

I wouldn't want him doing my taxes, with the pressures he's facing!

No wonder hardly anything progressive ever gets accomplished in this country! (But that's really the System...4 or 8 years leaning one way, then 4 or 8 years attacking what was accomplished, tearing it down and going the other way. Just sideways action, hardly any forward momentum.)


**And this is another 'problem': whatever would get accomplished during Trump's Administration, he --or the Republicans-- would get the credit for...and the enemies just can't have that! Oh, brother!

Would you have said the same thing about Clinton's activities that lead to his impeachment? He was busy also. But Ken Star investigated him for how long?
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
Got it, so you just brought it up but has nothing to do with the main points.
The point of mentioning the, ahem, person who makes their money getting paid to have sex but is very different from a hooker, was to wonder why Mueller was the one instigating it; given that he is supposed to be spending those millions of taxpayer dollars to find out about Ruskie electoral interference, not sordid sexual liaisons with American pornographic actresses.

I know plenty of people believe it is a moral imperative to get Trump with something, anything, by whatever means are necessary. The idea of unlimited investigation into every aspect of the life of a person and anyone associated with them gives me concern. "Give me the man, and I will find the crime" isn't my idea of how the justice system is supposed to work.

Ah well, if there is justice to be served...
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
The point of mentioning the, ahem, person who makes their money getting paid to have sex but is very different from a hooker, was to wonder why Mueller was the one instigating it; given that he is supposed to be spending those millions of taxpayer dollars to find out about Ruskie electoral interference, not sordid sexual liaisons with American pornographic actresses.

I know plenty of people believe it is a moral imperative to get Trump with something, anything, by whatever means are necessary. The idea of unlimited investigation into every aspect of the life of a person and anyone associated with them gives me concern. "Give me the man, and I will find the crime" isn't my idea of how the justice system is supposed to work.

Ah well, if there is justice to be served...

Funny. Under Clinton, the investigation went from Whitewater to Monika Lewinski. The goal seemed to be to get *him* for anything.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Would you have said the same thing about Clinton's activities that lead to his impeachment? He was busy also. But Ken Star investigated him for how long?

And as I had to point out to an overly liberal women that worked for me during the Starr investigation of Monica and her mother, the investigators often know things that we do not know yet. There almost certainly had to be a very good reason for this latest raid, and we will find out why eventually. The person that okayed this raid was not only a person that voted for Trump, he contributed over $5,000.00 to the Trump campaign. Just as Monica Lewinsky's mother was holding the dress and Ken Starr had a reason for going after her. Odds are that Trumps attorney crossed the line and there was a very good reason to go after him.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Exactly right. Trump was trying to protect the privelage by claiming Cohen is his lawyer but managed to botch that when he made the statement that he knew nothing about the payment and he had no idea where the money came from.
Cohen also said something to the effect that Trump didn't know about his payment to Stormy Daniels. It would seem quite possible that the information Mueller uncovered was that there was some kind of cooperation or consultation between Trump and Cohen about this payment, which, because of Cohen's intent, could then be considered an illegal campaign contribution.
 

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
Why don't these investigations just hold off, until after Trump's presidency?!! Grief! Tackle the country's major problems together, unitedly (bipartisan**), then resume the investigations!

Doesn't anybody else agree??
The Nation's got business to do, and at the helm is a man hounded left and right by legal issues and worries!

I wouldn't want him doing my taxes, with the pressures he's facing!

No wonder hardly anything progressive ever gets accomplished in this country! (But that's really the System...4 or 8 years leaning one way, then 4 or 8 years attacking what was accomplished, tearing it down and going the other way. Just sideways action, hardly any forward momentum.)




**And this is another 'problem': whatever would get accomplished during Trump's Administration, he --or the Republicans-- would get the credit for...and the enemies just can't have that! Oh, brother!
Just like people with Obama, right? Everyone just let him get on with running the country. Yep, once you're elected you get 4-8 years consequence free! Shoot someone on 5th Avenue? No investigations until after your term, you git a country to run!
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Why don't these investigations just hold off, until after Trump's presidency?!! Grief! Tackle the country's major problems together, unitedly (bipartisan**), then resume the investigations!

Doesn't anybody else agree??
The Nation's got business to do, and at the helm is a man hounded left and right by legal issues and worries!

I wouldn't want him doing my taxes, with the pressures he's facing!

No wonder hardly anything progressive ever gets accomplished in this country! (But that's really the System...4 or 8 years leaning one way, then 4 or 8 years attacking what was accomplished, tearing it down and going the other way. Just sideways action, hardly any forward momentum.)




**And this is another 'problem': whatever would get accomplished during Trump's Administration, he --or the Republicans-- would get the credit for...and the enemies just can't have that! Oh, brother!
Because a president is not above the law.
 

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
People running and nominated for POTUS undergo the most intense scrutiny of anyone else in the world! Werent there any credible 'conflicts of interest' discovered beforehand? Surely, his assets in Russia should have raised flags! (If anyone owns substantial property in any foreign country and refuse to liquidate it, they should be disqualified from running; the property could be seized by that country, trying to force the president to favor them.)

For now, deal with the USA's problems at hand, not his.

There are procedures in place to handle outright treason immediately, not by using the taxpayer's money to dig up what could be possible wrongdoing!

Time for that, after his one-term presidency.
There were many conflicts of interest identifued before he was elected. Many of us pointed them out, but the Trumpettes just kinda handwaved them.
 

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
Because a president is not above the law.
Yet.

But I bet this "I got a country to run, I shouldn't be investigated during my term!" Idea is sounding pretty good about now. It will probably sound even better after the Reichsta... I mean... Capitol... mysteriously burns down and Trump declares himself President for the duration of the subsequent "crisis".
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
The point of mentioning the, ahem, person who makes their money getting paid to have sex but is very different from a hooker, was to wonder why Mueller was the one instigating it; given that he is supposed to be spending those millions of taxpayer dollars to find out about Ruskie electoral interference, not sordid sexual liaisons with American pornographic actresses.
It appears the Mueller ran into something that is beyond his scope of investigation, so he passed it on to a Trump appointee and a donator to the Trump campaign who then took the information and got warrants for searching into Cohen's activities, which may have to do with the $130,000 to pay off Stormy. Note that all the major players here are Republicans.
 

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
Cohen also said something to the effect that Trump didn't know about his payment to Stormy Daniels. It would seem quite possible that the information Mueller uncovered was that there was some kind of cooperation or consultation between Trump and Cohen about this payment, which, because of Cohen's intent, could then be considered an illegal campaign contribution.
What, your lawyer never paid a $130k hush money payment out of his own pocket, of his own volition, to keep your potentially embarrassing past quiet?
 

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
It appears the Mueller ran into something that is beyond his scope of investigation, so he passed it on to a Trump appointee and a donator to the Trump campaign who then took the information and got warrants for searching into Cohen's activities, which may have to do with the $130,000 to pay off Stormy. Note that all the major players here are Republicans.
InB4 "no true Scotsman" handwave and RINO goalpost shift.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Just like people with Obama, right? Everyone just let him get on with running the country. Yep, once you're elected you get 4-8 years consequence free! Shoot someone on 5th Avenue? No investigations until after your term, you git a country to run!


But but he was born in Nigeria, or Kenya, and there was a deep deep conspiracy that went back before he ran for any office to fake his citizenship so that he could run for president . . . And then there is crooked Hillary.

On a serious note I do believe that as Trump slips deeper and deeper into his dotage he will simply mumble "Crooked Hillary" over and over again.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Yet.

But I bet this "I got a country to run, I shouldn't be investigated during my term!" Idea is sounding pretty good about now. It will probably sound even better after the Reichsta... I mean... Capitol... mysteriously burns down and Trump declares himself President for the duration of the subsequent "crisis".
And that's undoubtedly because a recent poll put Trump's approval rating with those who identify as "Republican" at 86%. Therefore, they know whom they're linked to, come hell or high water.

Anyhow, if one thinks it's nasty right now, just wait, as we're getting close to the crunch point, I believe, and I don't know if we're constitutionally ready for this. We literally could be entering a crisis stage soon, and I'm not too sure how well we can handle this without all hell breaking loose.
 
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