He can pardon himself. So he is.
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F.B.I raids the office of Trump’s personal lawyer.
- Thread starter fantome profane
- Start date
I'm not sure it is funny, but yes, Ken Starr specifically seemed to take his role as special counsel as oriented towards "getting" Clinton without regard to what the crime was.
Is my belief that unlimited investigations that are aimed at prosecuting a person are troubling of no merit in your opinion?
The whitewater investigation needed to happen, and did result in over a dozen convictions with regards to the actual whitewater scandal. The Russian interference investigation needs to happen, though we still have to wait to see the first indictment with regard to Russian interference in the election.
Well, we US voters did vote for someone else, by a margin of millions.
Trump won that game. Now he's losing this one.
Maybe the real problem here is that the American people don't support Trump or his policies and goals.
I certainly don't.
Tom
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
There is quite a bit of similarity to the Watergate scandal here. The break in that led to Nixon's resignation may not have been ordered by Nixon, that was not what he was in trouble for. He was guilty of trying to cover up the break in. Did Trump have sex with a porn star? Yes he did. He was married to his current wife at the time. But that is not a crime in of itself. Having your lawyer pay her to do so to save your campaign is at the very least a campaign contribution. This was covered up and that is the crime.
And you know this to be true?
At least not while I was running for President and my lawyer was contributing something of value in that effort.
Actually I feel less confident now that that was what Mueller uncovered and what the search was about than when I posted above. It could be any number of incriminating things that Mueller came across and that the search was about. I don't know why I was ignorantly speculating about it. I don't even keep up with this stuff. Mostly I don't know what I'm talking about on this topic.
Firing the officials investigating the facts is a way of pardoning yourself. It's also known as obstruction of justice.And you know this to be true?
It isn't like Trump doesn't have a history of doing this sort of thing. Pardoning Arpaio wasn't very different.
Tom
Any president.
What did that impeachment accomplish? Nothing. (Clinton couldn’t run again.)
Not necessarily. That's never been decided. For a President to pardon him/herself would violate one of the most fundamental precepts in the law, nemo judex in causa sua. No one can sit in judge of his own cause. There is no reason to believe that the Framers intended for the pardon power to entail violation of this precept.
My guess is Trump's lawyer is a Russian spy, or is being blackmailed by one. What better way for Putin to know about and influence Trump?
Underhill
Well-Known Member
Yeah, that is one possibility for sure.
Apparently they're all working for Putin whether they know it or not.
OK, I disagree. We have such special prosecutors for a reason: presidents often commit crimes and should be thrown out of office. Of course, after the prosecutor gets done, it is in the hands of this do-nothing congress. So the whole thing will be ignored until after the midterm election.
I think that Trump's biggest problem is that he is accustomed to the private sector. The world of public office is very different.
He is used to being able to lie and cheat and obstruct justice and screw around with impunity. He seems to believe that as POTUS he would have even less accountability, but that isn't true.
Tom
I am saying its difficult to justify such a gamble otherwise. After all what would be the consequence of proving a case of illegal campaign contribution to silence a porn star? It does not invalidate the election, nor is it an issue that can be sold as a reason for impeachment to the Republican base. Not enough gains to raid Trump's lawyer.
That could be, although Nixon spent his whole life in the public sector and still thought he was above it all.
Yep.
Maybe not even then, if Republicans maintain their hold.
Meanwhile, the US has a president working under added stress, in an already stressful job. And people wonder why he seems to not be thinking clearly at times!
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
That is not a gimme, and I do believe that the SCOTUS would likely have to make a ruling on this, especially since there's no precedent.
He wasn't thinking clearly before. Why should he now?
But this type of stress is part of the job (yes, even under investigation). If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.