Face of Jesus

[Bishka]

I was a Catholic for the first 16 or so years of my life, and what he says is not inaccurate or "ridiculous", but actually not far from the truth. That was actually one of the first things to turn me off to Catholicsm, the hypocrasy. They would tell you about the Ten Commandments, then pray in front of a 20 foot crucifix that was behind the alter. As for statues, I've seen many a Catholic kiss the feet of both statues of Jesus and Mary, if thats not worship, I'm not sure what is.

Maybe those Catholics misunderstand, but as I understand it the DOCTRINE of the Catholic Church is adoration not worship of the saints.

Just because people practice something doesn't make it doctrine.

 

[ProfLogic]

If a picture claimed to be God, I'd probably think I was hearing things.

Why not, Moses believed that the burning bush was a god?

 

[ProfLogic]

People who knew Jesus could have told their children, who told their children. It may not have gotten completley right, but they would still have a general idea.

Have you ever tried word of mouth description? People misdescribe stories, descriptions, etc in a very short time. This was 2000 years ago as they claimed. For such an important man to have nothing that is 100 percent an evidence of his existence, is not just a coincidence....

 

[Genna]

Most of the typical drawings of Jesus portrays a handsome man, but the bible says otherwise:

"He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to Him, nothing in His appearance that we should desire Him. He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces He was despised, and we esteemed Him not. Surely He took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered Him stricken by God, smitten by Him, and afflicted. But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His wounds we are healed." (Isaiah 53:2-5

 

[Katzpur]

Why not, Moses believed that the burning bush was a god?

No he didn't. He heard the voice of God coming from within a burning bush. He never implied that the bush itself was God.

 

[logician]

"I have seen all too many portraits of Jesus, the usual long-haired bearded man. Where does this depiction of him come from if the bible never describes his facial features? "

Good question, since the man probably never existed.

 

[Bishka]

Why not, Moses believed that the burning bush was a god?

I know pictures won't claim to be God -- in my life they never had, neither have they had with any prophets that I know of.

 

[Bishka]

No he didn't. He heard the voice of God coming from within a burning bush. He never implied that the bush itself was God.

What Kathryn said.

 

[James the Persian]

I was a Catholic for the first 16 or so years of my life, and what he says is not inaccurate or "ridiculous", but actually not far from the truth. That was actually one of the first things to turn me off to Catholicsm, the hypocrasy. They would tell you about the Ten Commandments, then pray in front of a 20 foot crucifix that was behind the alter. As for statues, I've seen many a Catholic kiss the feet of both statues of Jesus and Mary, if thats not worship, I'm not sure what is.

Then you were a very poorly catechised RC, because worship of saints is forbidden and you clearly did not recognise the difference between worship and veneration. This seems to be a very common problem in the RCC. It's also a problem in the Orthodox Church, but one that does not appear to be so pronounced.

Now for us, statuary is forbidden. Three dimensional naturalistic images are seen as a temptation to confuse veneration and worship and to confuse image and idol and hence we use only flat stylised icons, but veneration of them includes kissing them, perhaps lighting candles before them, censing them etc. This is an expression of love for the one represented much like you might kiss a photo of your wife or girlfriend if you were parted from them. It is not worship. Even prayer is not worship but if it were the icons (and by extension RC statues) would not be being worshipped because we do not pray to the icons, no do we even pray to the one represented (unless it's Christ) but we merely ask for the prayers of the saints. Icons (and statues) are the religious equivalents of photographs and family portraits. They remind us of the cloud of witnesses, those who are our forebears in the faith.

I sincerely hope that Victor will come in as you will see that, other than on the issue of statuary, we and the RCs do not differ in the slightest in this respect. Nor do the Oriental Orthodox differ with us. That is by far the overwhelming majority of Christians in the world, now and throughout history.

James

 

[Bishka]

I sincerely hope that Victor will come in as you will see that, other than on the issue of statuary, we and the RCs do not differ in the slightest in this respect. Nor do the Oriental Orthodox differ with us. That is by far the overwhelming majority of Christians in the world, now and throughout history.

James

:claps:

Thanks James. That's exactly what needed to be said.

 

[ProfLogic]

No he didn't. He heard the voice of God coming from within a burning bush. He never implied that the bush itself was God.

So why not from a picture or a statue? The point is if people associate things with the self procalimed god why not a picture, thus my question to becky why not believe in a picture that speaks like the self proclaimed god?

 

[ProfLogic]

Then you were a very poorly catechised RC, because worship of saints is forbidden and you clearly did not recognise the difference between worship and veneration. This seems to be a very common problem in the RCC. It's also a problem in the Orthodox Church, but one that does not appear to be so pronounced.

Woah why do attack space monkey's experience and what he extracted from it? That is the problem with religion, if others have their own experience and opinion then they are poorly taught, did not understand evil...etc. As I said the bible was compiled 300 years after the last claimed author by a selected group of individuals who purposely selected the books as they see it fit. Now back to your point about the church's rules...molestation is prohibited in churches but do you think they do not happen?

 

[Katzpur]

So why not from a picture or a statue? The point is if people associate things with the self procalimed god why not a picture, thus my question to becky why not believe in a picture that speaks like the self proclaimed god?

Honestly, I don't have a clue as to what you're talking about. I was just correcting what you said about Moses, that's all. I'm not interested in speculating on talking pictures or statues.

 

[Bishka]

Honestly, I don't have a clue as to what you're talking about. I was just correcting what you said about Moses, that's all. I'm not interested in speculating on talking pictures or statues.

*Right on*

 

[ProfLogic]

Honestly, I don't have a clue as to what you're talking about. I was just correcting what you said about Moses, that's all. I'm not interested in speculating on talking pictures or statues.

The point is why can't your proclaimed god talk through a picture or a statue since you just said god was in the burning bush talking to moses... Moses believe that god was talking to him, simply because it said so.....and moses believe it right away.. question is would you do the same?

 

[ProfLogic]

*Right on*

You still did not answer the question, why can't your self proclaimed god talk through pictures or statues and that you said it is not your god.

 

[Bishka]

The point is why can't your proclaimed god talk through a picture or a statue since you just said god was in the burning bush talking to moses... Moses believe that god was talking to him, simply because it said so.....and moses believe it right away.. question is would you do the same?

He can, we never said He wouldn't.

I don't believe God would talk to me through that - because I'm not a prophet or prophetess.

 

[Bishka]

You still did not answer the question, why can't your self proclaimed god talk through pictures or statues and that you said it is not your god.

And never said He couldn't.

 

[Neale]

I believe that the long-haired, tanned portraiture of Jesus we've all come to know is not an accurate representation of the historical Jesus of Nazareth. To my knowledge, no one actually contemporarily painted him, so the figure that we've come to know is merely a generic representation of a regal, Jewish man of that era.

Also, none of the earliest portraits of Jesus (to my knowledge) had a "THIS IS WHAT JESUS CHRIST REALLY LOOKS LIKE....SERIOUSLY, NO DEBATING THIS!" label on it. There was no name-with-an-arrow-pointing-to-Christ, so the painting is simply representing a widely accepted idealistic image of Jesus. The imagry of a crucifix is likewise a utility, even though the Byzantine and Roman Catholic crucifixes differ, it's the notion: so too is (to a lesser degree) the imagry of Jesus for a remembrance of faith.

 

[ProfLogic]

I know pictures won't claim to be God -- in my life they never had, neither have they had with any prophets that I know of.

Here's your original statement, you said you know in your heart, how, have you heard of the bel;ievers worshiping a painting that started sweating because they thought it was god.. It was in the news a few years ago... Your statement appeared to have a conclusion that pictures will never be used by your slef proclaimed god, why is that?