Faith in Christ is Completely Logical

[Robert.Evans]

That is, once again, the logical fallacy of an argument from ignorance. You'll have to do better.

If it was ignorance he would not be able to respond to it would he

 

[nazz]

No, my friend, our differences do not reach that deep. If you disagree with me, then I might be wrong, therefore, I need to be told. That is the acquisition of knowledge.

One also has to be willing to consider the merits of the opposing arguments. This is part of intellectual honesty

 

[Looncall]

I cannot do that. As I have said many times, there is no tangible evidence, however, there is a logical and rational Plan of Redemption, deviced by God himself, that is so profound and sapient that it can be considered as evidence for the existence of God, that is, unless someone can find a genuine discrepancy in it.

It sounds like a scam to me. Convince people they need something (redemption), then convince them they can get it from only one place (religion). The beauty of the religious scam is that the something need not even exist.

The aim, of course, is to keep pews and collection plates full.

 

[Robert.Evans]

What proof? Everyone asks you to demonstrate your proof and it all turns into semantics, your beliefs, and logical fallacies.

God gives proof. We give answers. You don't accept them. What is your belief?? care to divulge?

 

[Robert.Evans]

No, my friend, our differences do not reach that deep. If you disagree with me, then I might be wrong, therefore, I need to be told. That is the acquisition of knowledge.

I have some wacky ideas.... so don't speak too soon .. haha

 

[Serenity7855]

A fine post but I disagree. Even if by coincidence every breathing thing would cooperate in God's plan and it succeeded, people, even some God believers, would boast it was by human cooperation it succeeded.
Judges 7:2
The LORD said to Gideon, "You have too many men. I cannot deliver Midian into their hands, or Israel would boast against me, 'My own strength has saved me.'

I totally agree with you, which would suggest that we both agree so what is it about my post that you disagree with?

 

[Robert.Evans]

It sounds like a scam to me. Convince people they need something (redemption), then convince them they can get it from only one place (religion). The beauty of the religious scam is that the something need not even exist.

The aim, of course, is to keep pews and collection plates full.

Nowhere does it say that you have to give money nor go to Church. Believe in the Father and son and be good. That is not difficult.

 

[savagewind]

I totally agree with you, which would suggest that we both agree so what is it about my post that you disagree with?

You said The Plan is evidence. And I say it isn't.
Here:

there is a logical and rational Plan of Redemption, deviced by God himself, that is so profound and sapient that it can be considered as evidence for the existence of God,

But maybe I misunderstand what you are actually saying. It sould be evidence but people are called "stiff necked" even by God.

 

[Serenity7855]

It sounds like a scam to me. Convince people they need something (redemption), then convince them they can get it from only one place (religion). The beauty of the religious scam is that the something need not even exist.

The aim, of course, is to keep pews and collection plates full.

You misunderstand the argument. No body can be convinced that God lives. It is an impossibility. One has to come to that conclusion by themselves. The idea that anybody can convince another human that God lives is absurd. Tell me, what would be the motive for me to convince you that God is real. I can only save myself, you are responsible for your own redemption.

Personally, I am not a congregationalist and disagree with man made religions, so collection plates and filled pews are of no interest to me.

 

[Looncall]

You misunderstand the argument. No body can be convinced that God lives. It is an impossibility. One has to come to that conclusion by themselves. The idea that anybody can convince another human that God lives is absurd. Tell me, what would be the motive for me to convince you that God is real. I can only save myself, you are responsible for your own redemption.

Personally, I am not a congregationalist and disagree with man made religions, so collection plates and filled pews are of no interest to me.

Ah, but you did read the chain letter. Even if you are not passing it on, your are its victim.

 

[Sapiens]

God gives proof. We give answers. You don't accept them. What is your belief?? care to divulge?

I have no belief, I have long ago outgrown the need for such thumb sucking.

 

[Serenity7855]

You said The Plan is evidence. And I say it isn't.
Here:
But maybe I misunderstand what you are actually saying. It sould be evidence but people are called "stiff necked" even by God.

Ah right. I was cautious with that statement by saying that it can be "concidered" as evidence and not that it was evidence. I cannot offer evidence of God. I cannot give anyone what I have. I can help them get it but I cannot give it. If evidence is needed then look to the cosmos and witness the miracles that take place in our universe, from the Higgs Boson, giving mass to everything, to Dark Matter being able to pass through solid objects, to Morphic Magnetic Fields giving everything form and shape. Scientists will disagree but they cannot fill the holes in our ozone layers, properly diagnose AIDS or bring back the trees to deserts that were once forests. If they cannot fix it then they should stop breaking it. Take no notice of their objections to theists seeing the evidence of God in our solar system. The miracles are their for all of us to see. Sorry for ranting on. I didn't want to get into that side of things because it causes atheists to get nasty, however, it does solidify the existence of God.

 

[savagewind]

Ah right. I was cautious with that statement by saying that it can be concidered as evidence and not that it was evidence.

Yes. Now I agree.

If they cannot fix it then they should stop breaking it.

I should learn to pray every day that they stop it. Thanks for the reminders.

Sorry for ranting on.

It's OK.

I didn't want to get into that side of things because it causes atheists to get nasty

I suppose my own heart must be getting nasty sometimes as I think their tantrums are funny.

however, it does solidify the existence of God

Yes and it gives me good reason to keep my eyes open and to keep myself awake for Jesus.

 

[Serenity7855]

Ah, but you did read the chain letter. Even if you are not passing it on, your are its victim.

If I am a victim then I am a victim of my own choices. No one can be blamed for my choices. I made them all on my own.

 

[Cephus]

I never made that claim, you incorrectly make that claim for me, in the hope of being able to easily disprove it. That's your second logical fallacy, the stawman fallacy, in as many minutes. Got some more?

He's got nothing but, that's why I gave up on him. He not only has no answers, he doesn't even know he has no answers.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Presumably then you are now an atheist. You sound like one. So your beliefs must also come about the same way then. What has changed... haha

I guess you could say I went back home. ;0)

 

[Twilight Hue]

And you are part of the universe because of the fractal nautre of God.

Just the mind that composes God.

 

[Sapiens]

He's got nothing but, that's why I gave up on him. He not only has no answers, he doesn't even know he has no answers.

Answers would be nice, but his questions are not even clear.

 

[Twilight Hue]

No, you were never a Christian, you are a failed Christian. If you were ever a Christian then that is what you would be now. Once truly converted by the Holy Ghost you can never deny it. There is no going back once you have received the testimony of the Holy Ghost. You may have attended church but a Christian you never were.

Conversions are based on personal revelation from the Holy Ghost testifying to the soul that God lives. Conversion has absolutely nothing to do with the bible. The bible is a book of commandments that if adhered to by the reader will bring life eternal. It is a tool given to us by a loving Heavenly Father.

That's ok. I put it all down long ago. I used to say things exactly like that as well to people that left. It's perfectly fine and true. I was never a Christian as there is no such thing as Christianity.

It's entirely in the cerebral realm and acted out.

 

[Cephus]

Answers would be nice, but his questions are not even clear.

Mostly because I don't think he's rationally considered his position. There are lots of people who ascribe to a belief on a purely emotional level and never bother to revisit it again to see if it holds up to critical scrutiny. They liked it once and they figure it's going to be true forever so they never bother with it again. You see those people here and in many other places who can't even consider the possibility that their beliefs are wrong, they've wrapped their entire worldview and personal value around those beliefs being true.

I suspect that's what's happened here.