Faith in Christ is Completely Logical

[Robert.Evans]

I have no belief, I have long ago outgrown the need for such thumb sucking.

You have no belief?? Not possible. You must suck your thumb over something.
My question was where does everything come from. Your answer appears to be a paper bag over your head.... unless of course you have an answer

 

[Robert.Evans]

He's got nothing but, that's why I gave up on him. He not only has no answers, he doesn't even know he has no answers.

We would all benefit, no doubt, from hearing your answers.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Just the mind that composes God.

Just the mind that composes everything, including your last reply.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Answers would be nice, but his questions are not even clear.

I will make it clear, just for you:

Where does everything come from?
Will that do?
I will expand. By everything I mean the universe/multiverse

 

[Robert.Evans]

That's ok. I put it all down long ago. I used to say things exactly like that as well to people that left. It's perfectly fine and true. I was never a Christian as there is no such thing as Christianity.

It's entirely in the cerebral realm and acted out.

To say there is no such thing as Christianity takes you into the realm of madness I feel. If you are saying that all things belong in the mind, fine, I agree. If that is the case, so do your thoughts. So you knowing that does not make Christianity wrong.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Mostly because I don't think he's rationally considered his position. There are lots of people who ascribe to a belief on a purely emotional level and never bother to revisit it again to see if it holds up to critical scrutiny. They liked it once and they figure it's going to be true forever so they never bother with it again. You see those people here and in many other places who can't even consider the possibility that their beliefs are wrong, they've wrapped their entire worldview and personal value around those beliefs being true.

I suspect that's what's happened here.

I suspect that you should not assume things of other people, but rather discuss. Otherwise people might think you have preconceived ideas, which is what your falsely accusing me of.

 

[Robert.Evans]

I guess that's where I run into trouble, I spend a goodly part of my day trying vainly to keep up on the literature, I am far more invested in being au courant than I am with being correct yesterday.

What literature. What are you interested in?

 

[Robert.Evans]

I'm sixty-four and I think he is spot on! If he's under twenty, that doubles my respect for him.

assumptions are not fact

 

[Robert.Evans]

I'd say it about anyone, the strength of their faith is irrelevant, anyone who has irrational beliefs has irrational beliefs no matter how important those beliefs are to them. The only people who think I'm looking stupid by pointing that out either shares those beliefs or is an accommodationist.



Older than you I'm sure.

Define irrational.

 

[Robert.Evans]

One of the powerful reasons for that is there is no actual divine communication taking place with a particular God as Christianity alludes to there being one.

Yes there is

 

[Robert.Evans]

Exactly. I'm not emotionally invested in holding my beliefs because I really want to hold my beliefs,

Nor does anyone... it is God given

I constantly test what I believe as new information comes forward and as new things are objectively supported, I will change my beliefs to match.

So would I. Of course there is no need to change it if you feel it is right. That is why people beleive in things like evolution. But sure, they would change their beliefs if new info came in... not that its likely.

That's why I stopped being a Christian, I finally realized, after refusing to take faith as an answer, that the evidence didn't support the conclusions that Christianity (and other religions) insist on. So I moved on.

In other words you were pruned out. Once you were out, you looked for reasons to back up your position, and found them. The world is good at doing that. It is called a delusion. But have no fear, we are all deluded about something.

If it was objectively discovered tomorrow that a god, any god, actually existed in reality, I'd believe it.

haha..... Wow! Really! I mean, a God standing right there in front of you, and youd'e believe it! Your amazing! How would you do that? Haha....
Seriously, God opens the heart and that is where he resides. All things hidden are usually valuable, like money, jewels, pin numbers, etc. It is no different. So you will never ever see something that we can is God, not in the sense you are meaning. God is found within, but there is plenty of evidence without.... but evidence has to be intepreted, and you will interpret differently.

I might not worship it but certainly I'd have no choice than to believe it was real. This is not something that most hard core theists can do. They don't follow the evidence, they have no clue what the evidence is and refuse to look because the reality of their beliefs simply doesn't matter to them.

I find that sad.

You should not find that sad. The proof is within. The believer is evidence of God, because the change in the person signifies that.... ''faith is evidence of things not seen''.
There are many, no doubt, who don't look into very far I am sure. But some just don't have to. You see, when you trust someone, you don't need to check up on them, that is what trust is.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Our beliefs inform our actions, that much is certain, which is another reason to ensure that our beliefs are rational so that our actions will likewise be rational.

If you got 10 Christians in the same room, even Christians from the same denomination or the same church, you'd still get 10 different opinions on what their beliefs ought to be.

As scripture says you will.
The core beliefs are still the same, as with most religions, certainly the main three

There are over 30,000 different sects of Christianity worldwide, yet if we were honest, there are as many versions as there are Christians, the same goes for Islam, the same goes for Buddhism and Shintoism and every other religion. There isn't a single version of any religion that everyone who professes that religion subscribes to.

so

But everyone is supremely convinced that their version, and only their version, is the correct one, which I find strange. You'd think that all they'd have to do is talk to each other to realize that all of them have the same position on the "truth". They can't all be right but they can all be wrong.

They can all be right, no matter how many answers. There are many different realities within the mind of God... it is not as simple as you think. You are judging with the mind of the world. The many pieces make the whole, it is the whole that counts. Your mistake is to look at it as you would any other subject... which you can't do. It is spirituall discerned.

 

[Robert.Evans]

And what makes you think I haven't tested the water? I spent 20 years as a Christian, after all.

I thought one of your last arguments was that you didn't know if Christians were here as you can't define one. Now you say you were one... haha

 

[Robert.Evans]

Usually the opposite, not faith in know laws but questions as to the validity of known laws, as per your scurvy example.

which are still held by faith... read The Science Delusion... Sheldrake (I think)

 

[McBell]

This is yet another fallacious piece of doctrine that is putting religions in such a precarious position within our society. You err in forgetting that God is perfect, but he is not a magician who can shed his perfection and then take it back up again. It is doctrine like this that is destroying religions. It creates pseudonyms for religion like leprechauns, unicorns and the spaghetti monster, which are used to define Christianity. So, yes, I can arbitrarily dismiss it on the grounds that what you are saying is simply not true

Thank you for proving my point.

 

[McBell]

I will make it clear, just for you:

Where does everything come from?
Will that do?
I will expand. By everything I mean the universe/multiverse

Personally, I prefer the honest answer of "I do not know" over your assumption "GodDidIt"

 

[Serenity7855]

Personally, I prefer the honest answer of "I do not know" over your assumption "GodDidIt"

That only shows you lack in ability to think cognitively. We do not fully understand dark matter but that does not stop scientists developing ideas on what is also known as the "God Particle"

 

[Robert.Evans]

Personally, I prefer the honest answer of "I do not know" over your assumption "GodDidIt"

To say that everything is an evolving consciousness is not an assumption... even if it appears like that to you. Though now we know your position: You don't know. But if you don't know, how can you say we are wrong? Make your mind up. I suppose it is ''Naturaldidit''... haha

 

[viole]

haha... Then to you, in your reality, there is no God.

Well, I have experiences that there is no God. They happen when I least expect them and are very intense.

I feel an awsome oneness with the Universe. No more viole and the Universe, but a merge of the two. It is like coming back home after a long absence. And when that happens, we see with perfect clarity that there is no supernatural design or purpose. No external conscious architect. No birth. No death. Only mere self contained existence.

So, are you ready to take my experiences as evidence that there is no god? If not, why not?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Robert.Evans]

Well, I have experiences that there is no God. They happen when I least expect them and are very intense.

Interesting

I feel an awsome oneness with the Universe. No more viole and the Universe, but a merge of the two. It is like coming back home after a long absence.

That is how it is with god. Your God is just of this realm. There is no difference really.

And when that happens, we see with perfect clarity that there is no supernatural design or purpose. No external conscious architect. No birth. No death. Only mere self contained existence.

Interesting again.
''supernatural'' is often misunderstood. It does not have to imply God, as it is usually used. It just means things above the normal. So to look for something like that might be misleading to you... especially when we can use the term ''natural''.
The consciousness of the universe is certainly autonomous to God, but not the God of this aeon, for that is what he is.

So, are you ready to take my experiences as evidence that there is no god? If not, why not?

Ciao

- viole

As I say, to you there is not. All things are ultimately consciousness. What is within your realm is no concept of God. That is your reality. It does not mean he is not there, it is just not in your reality. Everything is like one big thought machine, and you are part of the thoughts generated. Some just don't fit with others. So I accept what you say.... but that is only in your realm, not in reality. True reality is the Almighty God, or the One that all things come from. You also believe in God, you just use other names. That is fine.
As for death and birth, in one sense there is not, as we are all recyclyed consciousness and energy. Even in a physical sense atoms are reused. But there is a death of your own self, for that is what you are. All things are renewed and beging again. Eventually you will see. You realm of reality is not mine.