Sapiens
Polymathematician
Yeah? Well we'll have to jump off that bridge when we get to it.I thought the saying was ''made' your own bed. Who would want to ''butter it''?
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Yeah? Well we'll have to jump off that bridge when we get to it.I thought the saying was ''made' your own bed. Who would want to ''butter it''?
No you can't... that is what ''I don't know'' meansYou can say that it is very unlikely.
Not necessarily. Just because one does not know the answer to a question does not mean that they consider all possible answers to be equally likely. I don't know if there is life on Mars or not, for example, but that does not mean that I accept all possible forms of life to be equally likely there (I don't consider green-skinned, laser-toting humanoids to be very likely). I'm not saying that there is not a God, I'm just saying that "I don't know" isn't the same as saying "I think all answers are equally likely".No you can't... that is what ''I don't know'' means
Not to a scientist, and I think that goes to the base of most of the issues here. You religionists are what we call "Sea Lawyers" you think reality is based on what could have happened, in a dark closet, when only you are watching, one time, long ago, in a galaxy far, far away. We scientists are happy with being able to say with surety, "that's 'bout what I'd expect 95% of the time."No you can't... that is what ''I don't know'' means
I believe that salvation is give to all men regardless. The problem is that many religions believe that salvation is all that we need, and it is if you are satisfied in gaining entry in one of the lower mansions, however, eternal life in the presence of God requires more than just belief. It requires works. Adherence to the commandments of God to strive to follow the Saviour. Faith without works is dead.
I am not sure why you have quoted these two scriptures or their relevance here. If we love Jesus Christ then the works to keep his commandments becomes easy. Indeed, only one commandment is necessary. That is to love one another and all of the other commandments come easy.
The way you have titled the thread made me wonder what did you really mean by faith in Christ. I thought it was meant that just your faith in that would give you salvation. Let me ask you than, what do you mean by faith in Christ, shouldn't it be faith in God?
Faith in Christ is logical because of the Plan of Salvation. Fault the plan and you have dismissed Christianity. Please try and fault the plan and if you cannot then the plan is a viable and plausible plan.
If my faith can be rocked then I have it all wrong and though I will be disappointed I would rather live by the truth then by a lie. I am a devout Christian of some fourth years. I have tried in earnest to fault the Plan of redemption and find a fault. I have never come close. No one has ever fulfilled the challenge either. If I sound over confident then i apologise but I am only coming across that way because no one has succeeded in finding any anomalies in the plan.
Oh, I never preach to the disbeliever. I have come to the conclusion that you have to want to believe, nobody can force it on you. Pure personal choice. Ask me a question, though, and I will give you an answer.
You are what we call Of the world. That is where you will stay. Blind.Not to a scientist, and I think that goes to the base of most of the issues here. You religionists are what we call "Sea Lawyers" you think reality is based on what could have happened, in a dark closet, when only you are watching, one time, long ago, in a galaxy far, far away. We scientists are happy with being able to say with surety, "that's 'bout what I'd expect 95% of the time."
Sorry if I am coming across as mean. I am really a very nice person IRL (usually). But I've been doing this--posting in forums/message boards--for more than a dozen years and my patience for what I perceive to be BS grows thinner every day. I am intensely interested in truth and whether or not any belief I hold can survive the crucible of rational critique and I am really not interested in debating people who are not willing to do the same.
The more you say the more it is clear you hold unconventional views in contrast to most other Christians. It is really impossible to try to refute something you believe if we don't understand clearly what that is.
And yes, I believe in the trinity in a manner of speaking.
Sorry if I am coming across as mean. I am really a very nice person IRL (usually). But I've been doing this--posting in forums/message boards--for more than a dozen years and my patience for what I perceive to be BS grows thinner every day. I am intensely interested in truth and whether or not any belief I hold can survive the crucible of rational critique and I am really not interested in debating people who are not willing to do the same.
The more you say the more it is clear you hold unconventional views in contrast to most other Christians. It is really impossible to try to refute something you believe if we don't understand clearly what that is.
And yes, I believe in the trinity in a manner of speaking.
I'm so sick of people arguing religions and using "proof". Obviously, there is no proof for any atheist or theist.
Can't be proven.
Get over it.
No one knows.
End of argument.
False dichotomy turned into a Kent Hovind Challenge.Faith in Christ is logical because of the Plan of Salvation. Fault the plan and you have dismissed Christianity. Please try and fault the plan and if you cannot then the plan is a viable and plausible plan.
Except that the only reason to introduce god into the picture is through wishful thinking.It is true that I cannot prove to you that God lives, however, if the cookie jar is empty and your little boys mouth is covered with cookie crumbs that it was him who had them. Our cookie crumbs for the God jar is all around us and throughout the universe. Circumstantial evidence that makes a good case for divinity. Scientist are desperate to disprove it but any level headed rational person would look at the evidence and see God. It is only the closed minded numpties who refute what is perfectly logical.
Wow! Really? Houston, we have a problem. Serenity, why even post the question if you are unwilling to address the issues that will stand before you disproving your belief?
I can almost say that you are Catholic. I've been wrong before. Sometimes it is hard to figure another out unless I know what denomination you come from. Catholicism doesn't fit you because you mentioned denominations. Catholicism is not a denomination. Because you spoke negatively about fundamentalism I suspect that you are orthodox in some way.
Now to the heart of what little you said. Please define faith. I will know more about what you speak of understanding your definition of faith. As for salvation, you spoke of a belief as to how salvation comes to a Christian and speak of salvation as: "All of mankind will be immortalized receiving a perfect edifice in which to dwell." Do you speak of heaven or an understanding?
If I were to shake your belief I'd begin with your definition of faith. I would define faith and probably set you on your way to disbelief.
If you are as closed minded as those that you say could never understand then the point mute.
First things first. Answer the above questions.
Faith in Christ is logical because of the Plan of Salvation. Fault the plan and you have dismissed Christianity. Please try and fault the plan and if you cannot then the plan is a viable and plausible plan.
Faith in Christ in not logical because Christ faith should be in God, the Creator of everything.It is not logical because Jesus peace be upon him said
John 8:28 "I do nothing of myself"
The faith you are demonstrating here is a form of worship.
I think you are wrong. Yes I have faith in God but Christ is the intercessor to God. It is through Christ that Salvation is obtained. We pray to God in the name of Christ. Christ atoned for the sins of all mankind. He died on the cross for us and was resurrected so that we may all receive salvation in his name. It is therefore logical that we should have faith in Him who saved us and God Himself agreed when He said
Mathew 17:5 King James Version (KJV)
While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
He did not say hear me he said hear his son in whom we must have faith. It is a fundamental part of the plan of salvation decided before the world was. But I believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost equally.
It is right though, Jesus did say in
28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
However, note what he said "I do nothing" He does nothing less He confirms it with the father, but it is He that does it and not the father. God wrote the play but Jesus Christ is the leading actor. It is in Him that we must have faith.
Mathew 17:5 King James Version (KJV)
While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
False.
Jesus peace be upon him said that I didn't come to destroy the law of the prophets, I came to fulfill them.
The law of the prophets has always been a law that teaches to believe in God and keep the commandments.
Again let me quote you the same verse I quoted before
"Think not that I came to destroy the Law and the prophets. I came not to destroy but rather to fulfill. For verily I tell you, not until all things be accomplished shall a single dot (jot, iota or tiny letter) in any way be lessened from the Law. And whoever breaks the least of the Commandments and teaches this will be the least in the Kingdom, but whoever keeps the Commandments and teaches this will be the highest in the Kingdom. And not unless your righteousness exceeds that of the Pharasees will you enter into the Kingdom of Heaven."
Matthew 19:16-17
"And behold one came and said to him, Good teacher, what good things shall I do that I may have eternal life? So he said, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but One, this God. But if you want to enter into eternal life, keep the commandments."
Note that in both verse, Jesus peace be upon him didn't mention having faith in him would grant them eternal life.
I agree, life is certainly amazing. Does that mean we should all just say the heck with it and start believing in Christ? No, I'd say life was amazing before any set of beliefs even existed. And if you are arguing for logic, I'd suggest not using scripture or anything you have read in religious texts as a basis for your argument. Im sorry but a "logical" person wouldn't consider any certain religion as absolute truth.It is true that I cannot prove to you that God lives, however, if the cookie jar is empty and your little boys mouth is covered with cookie crumbs that it was him who had them. Our cookie crumbs for the God jar is all around us and throughout the universe. Circumstantial evidence that makes a good case for divinity. Scientist are desperate to disprove it but any level headed rational person would look at the evidence and see God. It is only the closed minded numpties who refute what is perfectly logical.