Sapiens
Polymathematician
Yeah? Well we'll have to jump off that bridge when we get to it.
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Faith in Christ is Completely Logical
- Thread starter Serenity7855
- Start date
Robert.Evans
You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
No you can't... that is what ''I don't know'' means
Not necessarily. Just because one does not know the answer to a question does not mean that they consider all possible answers to be equally likely. I don't know if there is life on Mars or not, for example, but that does not mean that I accept all possible forms of life to be equally likely there (I don't consider green-skinned, laser-toting humanoids to be very likely). I'm not saying that there is not a God, I'm just saying that "I don't know" isn't the same as saying "I think all answers are equally likely".No you can't... that is what ''I don't know'' means
Sapiens
Polymathematician
Not to a scientist, and I think that goes to the base of most of the issues here. You religionists are what we call "Sea Lawyers" you think reality is based on what could have happened, in a dark closet, when only you are watching, one time, long ago, in a galaxy far, far away. We scientists are happy with being able to say with surety, "that's 'bout what I'd expect 95% of the time."No you can't... that is what ''I don't know'' means
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Sabour
Well-Known Member
The way you have titled the thread made me wonder what did you really mean by faith in Christ. I thought it was meant that just your faith in that would give you salvation. Let me ask you than, what do you mean by faith in Christ, shouldn't it be faith in God?
Serenity7855
Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
Faith in Christ is logical because of the Plan of Salvation. Fault the plan and you have dismissed Christianity. Please try and fault the plan and if you cannot then the plan is a viable and plausible plan.
Bunyip
pro scapegoat
How can you fault a literary work in that sense? Faulting a fictional plan?
Dr. Strange
Member
Wow! Really? Houston, we have a problem. Serenity, why even post the question if you are unwilling to address the issues that will stand before you disproving your belief?
I can almost say that you are Catholic. I've been wrong before. Sometimes it is hard to figure another out unless I know what denomination you come from. Catholicism doesn't fit you because you mentioned denominations. Catholicism is not a denomination. Because you spoke negatively about fundamentalism I suspect that you are orthodox in some way.
Now to the heart of what little you said. Please define faith. I will know more about what you speak of understanding your definition of faith. As for salvation, you spoke of a belief as to how salvation comes to a Christian and speak of salvation as: "All of mankind will be immortalized receiving a perfect edifice in which to dwell." Do you speak of heaven or an understanding?
If I were to shake your belief I'd begin with your definition of faith. I would define faith and probably set you on your way to disbelief.
If you are as closed minded as those that you say could never understand then the point mute.
First things first. Answer the above questions.
Robert.Evans
You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
You are what we call Of the world. That is where you will stay. Blind.
Serenity7855
Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
I have never professed to being a conventionalist, what ever that may mean. Indeed the opposite is true. To be a conventionalist would seem to mean that I should follow the popular trends and teachings of men, I don't as I now believe that they have it wrong. I simply follow the teaching contained in the scriptures, no more and no less. The plan of salvation is all there for everybody to read. It took me many years to study it and try an refute it. It contains where we came from, our purpose for being here and where we are going. The Lord has carefully provided a plan of life called the plan of salvation. It comprises all of the laws, ordinances, principles, and doctrines required to complete our mortal journey and progress to a state of exaltation enjoyed by our Father in Heaven. The Lord spoke to Moses and said, “For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." Through His divine work—the Creation, the Fall, and the Atonement—He makes this plan available to all.
May I suggest reading this from the Mormon site. Whether you agree with Mormonism or not their description is quite good.
Plan of Salvation. God's Plan For Your Life & Happiness | Mormon.org
Serenity7855
Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
It is true that I cannot prove to you that God lives, however, if the cookie jar is empty and your little boys mouth is covered with cookie crumbs that it was him who had them. Our cookie crumbs for the God jar is all around us and throughout the universe. Circumstantial evidence that makes a good case for divinity. Scientist are desperate to disprove it but any level headed rational person would look at the evidence and see God. It is only the closed minded numpties who refute what is perfectly logical.
McBell
Admiral Obvious
False dichotomy turned into a Kent Hovind Challenge.
Reeks of desperation.
McBell
Admiral Obvious
Except that the only reason to introduce god into the picture is through wishful thinking.
Serenity7855
Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
I have posted scores of time that I am not affiliated to any organised religion. That means your guessing is in vain.
Faith
The Apostle Paul taught that “faith is the substance [assurance] of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen”. “If ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true”. Faith is a principle of action and power. Whenever we work toward a worthy goal, we exercise faith. We show our hope for something that we cannot yet see.
In order for faith to lead to salvation, it must be centered in the Lord Jesus Christ. We can exercise faith in Christ when we have an assurance that He exists, a correct idea of His character, and a knowledge that we are striving to live according to His will.
Having faith in Jesus Christ means relying completely on Him—trusting in His infinite power, intelligence, and love. It includes believing His teachings. It means believing that even though we do not understand all things, He does. Because He has experienced all our pains, afflictions, and infirmities, He knows how to help us rise above our daily difficulties. He has “overcome the world” and prepared the way for us to receive eternal life. He is always ready to help us as we remember His plea: “Look unto me in every thought; doubt not, fear not”.
Hebrews 11 King James Version (KJV)
11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Salvation
To be saved from both physical and spiritual death. All people will be saved from physical death by the grace of God, through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Each individual can also be saved from spiritual death as well by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ. This faith is manifested in a life of obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel and service to Christ. Wherefore, he is the firstfruits unto God, inasmuch as he shall make intercession for all the children of men; and they that believe in him shall be saved.
Acts 4
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Corinthians 15
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
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Sabour
Well-Known Member
Faith in Christ in not logical because Christ faith should be in God, the Creator of everything.It is not logical because Jesus peace be upon him said
John 8:28 "I do nothing of myself"
The faith you are demonstrating here is a form of worship.
Serenity7855
Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
I think you are wrong. Yes I have faith in God but Christ is the intercessor to God. It is through Christ that Salvation is obtained. We pray to God in the name of Christ. Christ atoned for the sins of all mankind. He died on the cross for us and was resurrected so that we may all receive salvation in his name. It is therefore logical that we should have faith in Him who saved us and God Himself agreed when He said
Mathew 17:5 King James Version (KJV)
While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
He did not say hear me he said hear his son in whom we must have faith. It is a fundamental part of the plan of salvation decided before the world was. But I believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost equally.
It is right though, Jesus did say in
28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
However, note what he said "I do nothing" He does nothing less He confirms it with the father, but it is He that does it and not the father. God wrote the play but Jesus Christ is the leading actor. It is in Him that we must have faith.
Mathew 17:5 King James Version (KJV)
While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
Sabour
Well-Known Member
False.
Jesus peace be upon him said that I didn't come to destroy the law of the prophets, I came to fulfill them.
The law of the prophets has always been a law that teaches to believe in God and keep the commandments.
Again let me quote you the same verse I quoted before
"Think not that I came to destroy the Law and the prophets. I came not to destroy but rather to fulfill. For verily I tell you, not until all things be accomplished shall a single dot (jot, iota or tiny letter) in any way be lessened from the Law. And whoever breaks the least of the Commandments and teaches this will be the least in the Kingdom, but whoever keeps the Commandments and teaches this will be the highest in the Kingdom. And not unless your righteousness exceeds that of the Pharasees will you enter into the Kingdom of Heaven."
Matthew 19:16-17
"And behold one came and said to him, Good teacher, what good things shall I do that I may have eternal life? So he said, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but One, this God. But if you want to enter into eternal life, keep the commandments."
Note that in both verse, Jesus peace be upon him didn't mention having faith in him would grant them eternal life.
Serenity7855
Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
You are misinterpreting. The first verse comes from the beatitudes where Jesus is fulfilling the mosaic law replacing it with the Abrahamic Covenant.
Matthew 5
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
In no way can you use this to demonstrate that we should have faith in God and not Jesus Christ. Such a notion is absurd.
Whose commandments was the lawyer told to follow? It was the beatitudes that superceded the Mosaic Law announced by Jesus Christ. I find it weird that you should think that we should solely have faith in God and not in the Saviour of mankind. Are you Jewish by any chance.
Galatians 3:26
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Colossians 2:5
For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ
Our faith is in our Heavenly Father and His Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ. Although we talk of having faith in people, in principles, or in things, real faith focuses on eternal life through knowing “the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom [He has] sent.” Faith takes us beyond mere acceptance of the Savior’s identity and existence. It includes having complete confidence in His infinite and eternal redemptive power to save us from sin and death. Faith permits us to acknowledge Christ’s divine attributes, including infinite love for both the innocent and the sinner. It acknowledges the Lord’s limitless capacity to forgive and heal when we cast our burdens upon Him. Jesus is the intercessor to God. How do we hope to glorify the father without faith in Jesus Christ qthe Saviour of mankind.
I agree, life is certainly amazing. Does that mean we should all just say the heck with it and start believing in Christ? No, I'd say life was amazing before any set of beliefs even existed. And if you are arguing for logic, I'd suggest not using scripture or anything you have read in religious texts as a basis for your argument. Im sorry but a "logical" person wouldn't consider any certain religion as absolute truth.