Faith in Jesus Christ

[Noya]

Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill."

The book of Isaiah was written around 700 B.C. (700 years before Christ walked the earth and about 750 years before the book of Matthew was written).

Isaiah 45:17 "But Israel shall be saved by the Lord With an everlasting salvation; You shall not be ashamed or disgraced Forever and ever.

Isaiah 45:17 prophesies salvation through Christ.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Nonsense.

 

[Riverwolf]

Nonsense.

I don't necessarily disagree, but please explain.

 

[outhouse]

I don't necessarily disagree, but please explain.

Isaiah is compilation, a book that evolved and was finished much later then OP suggest.

Proto Isaiah started around the time OP suggest, but that is said to be chapters 1-39


After 550 BC

Book of Isaiah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Chapters 49–55 probably come from a slightly later period, after Babylon had fallen to Cyrus and the return to Jerusalem became a real possibility.



But I think the nonsense is by trying to link the two different dieties together by a poor interpretation of text written hundred of years a part that cleary are talking about two different deity concepts. Isaiah is cleary talking about Yahweh and Yahweh only, not Joshua.

 

[1137]

Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill."

Isaiah 45:17 "But Israel shall be saved by the Lord With an everlasting salvation; You shall not be ashamed or disgraced Forever and ever.

Isaiah 45:17 prophesies salvation through Christ.

Not only is Jesus not even a contender to be the Messiah, as he is not of the same tribe as David, but he did not do a single thing the Messiah is supposed to do. The world does not worship the Hebrew God, there is still "evil" and tyranny, the enemies of Israel have not renounced their hate, Jesus did not set up a kingdom, all the Jewish people have certainly not returned to Israel, etc etc etc.

 

[Noya]

Isaiah is cleary talking about Yahweh and Yahweh only, not Joshua.[/B]

I believe Isaiah 53 Prophesies the Messiah's Coming.

 

[outhouse]

I believe Isaiah 53 Prophesies the Messiah's Coming.

Really?

Are you saying a jewish prophecy made a claim that one of their own, would become a deity for enemies of Judaism?

 

[InChrist]

I believe that Jesus Christ was/is the Messiah prophesied by Isaiah, He was of the linage of the house of David, He did fulfill the law and He brings spiritual reconciliation and peace between humans and God. He will return, very soon, to remove His church out of this world, rescue the nation of Israel from her enemies, bring salvation and establish a kingdom of peace which He will rule from the throne of David in Jerusalem.

 

[Noya]

I believe Jesus died for our sins and that understanding is the key to my faith.

I believe that if you look for love and acts that elevate human worth / value you will see God, Faith in Christ elevates these acts because of salvation.

Zechariah 12:10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.

 

[Sleeppy]

Isaiah is such a great book. A true eye opener for many of us. Unfortunately, there are some who very naturally oppose the prophets. But, in time, Adam will be replaced.. And natural ignorance, along with all inherited curse, will be removed. People will begin to realize that there is one God, without confusion, and every knee will bow and tongue confess that the Truth is the Will of the Father in Heaven.

 

[outhouse]

I believe Jesus died for our sins and that understanding is the key to my faith.

I believe that if you look for love and acts that elevate human worth / value you will see God, Faith in Christ elevates these acts because of salvation.

Zechariah 12:10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.

Since the NT was heavily influenced and read, and followed by the unknown authors of the NT, dont you think the unknown authors of the NT would stay in line with OT prophecy?

All your really doing here is trying to follow the trinity by connecting imaginary dots from NT to OT.

Thats not real history, its theology writen through mythology.


Honestly bud, your best bet with this kind of debate is to ask this be moved to the same faith section.

 

[1137]

I believe that Jesus Christ was/is the Messiah prophesied by Isaiah, He was of the linage of the house of David, He did fulfill the law and He brings spiritual reconciliation and peace between humans and God. He will return, very soon, to remove His church out of this world, rescue the nation of Israel from her enemies, bring salvation and establish a kingdom of peace which He will rule from the throne of David in Jerusalem.

He is not of the tribal lineage of David, he supposedly has no biological father. Also, he did not fulfill the prophesy, as pointed out in my previous post.

 

[InChrist]

He is not of the tribal lineage of David, he supposedly has no biological father. Also, he did not fulfill the prophesy, as pointed out in my previous post.

I realize you pointed this out in your previous post, but the scriptures say otherwise. I am preoccupied for the rest of the weekend, but I hope to get back to this subject.

 

[1137]

I realize you pointed this out in your previous post, but the scriptures say otherwise. I am preoccupied for the rest of the weekend, but I hope to get back to this subject.

Actually, the scriptures do not say otherwise.

 

[Noya]

Honestly bud, your best bet with this kind of debate is to ask this be moved to the same faith section.

Nobody wakes up one day and has total faith in Buddha.

 

[Shermana]

I believe Jesus died for our sins and that understanding is the key to my faith.

I believe that if you look for love and acts that elevate human worth / value you will see God, Faith in Christ elevates these acts because of salvation.

Zechariah 12:10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.

It's actually "Him/the one who they pierced" as Jesus quotes the passage in John 9, the "Me" translation is a Trinitarian corruption IMO that sadly even the JPS has followed suit with.

 

[BBTimeless]

Not surprisingly, those who subscribe to the Christian tradition are in agreement with the OP, while those who oppose it, are not.

 

[arthra]

Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill."

The book of Isaiah was written around 700 B.C. (700 years before Christ walked the earth and about 750 years before the book of Matthew was written).

Isaiah 45:17 "But Israel shall be saved by the Lord With an everlasting salvation; You shall not be ashamed or disgraced Forever and ever.

Isaiah 45:17 prophesies salvation through Christ.

As a Baha'i I have no problem with Jesus Christ.. We accept Him as fulfilling prophecy... some prophecies I'm unsure how they were fulfilled or maybe it's the issue of being "saved"... When Jesus appeared there was of course the occupation of Judea by Rome..

So in what way could Jesus as Messiah have liberated Judea from Roman occupation could be asked.. Of course this can be taken spiritually..

My own belief is that He offered the people a stategy of non-violent resistance... If you are asked to carry a burden..Carry longer than asked. If you are slapped in the face..turn the other cheek.. Pay you taxes..in other words to survive that situation use nonviolent means to survive the occupation.

What occurred was that the people generally followed those who promised victory through armed rebellion...

Leo Tolstoy wrote several books emphasizing the non violent teachings of Jesus and influenced Mahatma Gandhi and they in turn had an influence of Martin Luther King and so on...

 

[Riverwolf]

Nobody wakes up one day and has total faith in Buddha.

How do you know that?

It basically happened to me: I read the Upanishads in general study of world philosophy, and became Hindu virtually over night.

 

[InChrist]

Actually, the scriptures do not say otherwise.

There are more than 300 Messianic prophecies. The first one is in Genesis 3:15 pertaining to the virgin birth which states that Messiah, the seed of a woman would destroy the serpent (Satan). The prophets declared that He must be of the "lineage of David" (Jer. 23:5; 2 Sam. 7:10-16; Ps. 89:3-4) and rule upon David's throne. Matthew and Luke begin with the genealogy of Joseph and Mary to prove that Jesus Christ met the required criteria. . The Matthew genealogy follows Joseph's line (Jesus' legal adoptive father), through David's son Solomon. Luke follows Mary's line (Jesus' blood mother), through David's son Nathan. Matthew traces Jesus’ line back to King David and then back to Abraham to show that Jesus is the foretold Jewish Messiah and Luke traces His line all the way back to Adam to show that He is the Savior of all humanity.


Through both of these lines, Jesus Christ, the Son of God/ Son of Man is shown to be David's descendant, along with fulfilling all messianic prophecies (except those that refer to His second coming in power and glory) making Him alone eligible to be the promised Messiah and Savior of the world, legally through Joseph and biologically through Mary.