faith is a useful tool

[Scuba Pete]

Your intolerance of everything that doesnt suit you is just as amazing.

O rly? Please, show me the "intolerance". You don't see me bashing atheists as you bash theists. Perhaps we use different definitions of intolerance. You and Copernicus revile theists for their faith, only to use it yourself to guard your precious atheism. I am completely underwhelmed by your intellectual dishonesty that prevents you both from seeing your own hypocrisies in all of this. You are no better than members of the religious right for your intolerance here.

 

[Magic Man]

You seem rather adept at it.

I'm used to dealing with you. (I also grew up Catholic, so that gave me a lot of practice.)

 

[Magic Man]

Finally you got it Darken, it is amazing how atheist consume so much energy in blaming and attacking a God that does not exist,

Who's blaming or attacking God? No one here, and atheists in general don't either.

this is so illogical, logic tells us that if something preoccupy the mind as much as this concept of God does, God must exist and that God is the one thing that rational beings such a humans cannot think “not to exist”

Not surprisingly your concept of logic is sorely lacking.

 

[Scuba Pete]

I'm used to dealing with you. (I also grew up Catholic, so that gave me a lot of practice.)

Wonder of wonders. I am not Catholic, nor do my views resemble Catholicism. Perhaps you just need more practice. For now, your tripe simply bores me to tears. Here's the deal... go ahead and make yet another pithy statement about how stupid/illogical/banal I am for believing in God and I will let you have the last word in this obtuse repartee. No, go ahead. You deserve it. No really, I insist.

Still, it's obvious to many that theists and atheists use faith in equal amounts to support their belief/disbelief of that entity we refer to as God. In the end, either side can only produce a solid "because I do" to defend their respective positions. There is no "proof", only evidence and logic that can be twisted to defend either position. Condescension on either side is contraindicated due to the parity of beliefs.

But hey, if you're obsessed with bashing the other side, so be it. It's your decision to be a bigot and I will learn to avoid you harshing my mellow. Experience tells me that you have justified your hate/intolerance and nothing I can say or do will be able to overcome that. It just proves that the religious right are not the only megalomaniacs in the world today! Peace out!

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings!

[W]hy is evolution wrong according to our religion?

You're presuming too much, I think!

Many of us religionists have NO PROBLEM WHATEVER accepting BOTH Divine Creation and evolution!

Peace!

Bruce

 

[Magic Man]

Wonder of wonders. I am not Catholic, nor do my views resemble Catholicism. Perhaps you just need more practice. For now, your tripe simply bores me to tears. Here's the deal... go ahead and make yet another pithy statement about how stupid/illogical/banal I am for believing in God and I will let you have the last word in this obtuse repartee.

Can you point me to where I called you or even implied that you are stupid/illogical/banal for believing in God? I seem to have missed that part. I never said you were Catholic either. Let's try this. We'll go back over the conversation and see what happened.

I do not expect you to follow my reasoning or logic.

Good, because it's impossible to follow something that's not there.

You seem rather adept at it.

I'm used to dealing with you. (I also grew up Catholic, so that gave me a lot of practice.)

You claimed that someone else was being stupid/illogical/banal, and I pointed out that your responses hadn't actually used the logic you claimed they had. Then, you said I was good at following something that wasn't there. I said that I am because I'm used to dealing with you and your lack of logic, and I was raised Catholic which gave me plenty of practice with following something (God) which wasn't there.

Now, in that context, can you explain how this response from you makes any sense? I've tried to figure it out, but I can't come up with anything.

Still, it's obvious to many that theists and atheists use faith in equal amounts to support their belief/disbelief of that entity we refer to as God.

Then, there's something wrong with those people's "obvious" sensor. You seem to love to believe that and bring it up any time you get a chance, but it's simply not true. I don't believe in God because of the lack of evidence I have for Him. Those who believe in him without having had a mystical experience are only going on faith. It's not that hard to comprehend, but I won't hold my breath for you.

In the end, either side can only produce a solid "because I do" to defend their respective positions. There is no "proof", only evidence and logic that can be twisted to defend either position. Condescension on either side is contraindicated due to the parity of beliefs.

No, I can provide much more than that, as can many theists.

But hey, if you're obsessed with bashing the other side, so be it. It's your decision to be a bigot and I will learn to avoid you harshing my mellow. Experience tells me that you have justified your hate/intolerance and nothing I can say or do will be able to overcome that. It just proves that the religious right are not the only megalomaniacs in the world today! Peace out!

I fund it humorous that you constantly accuse others of bashing the other side, when they've done nothing of the sort. Again, please tell me where I bashed the other side. I urge you to produce one thing I've ever said that shows hate or intolerance. If you can't, I suggest you stop with the ridiculous accusations.

However, I don't really have any hope of getting through to you. I expect that you'll just continue with your blindness and bias. So, have at it.

 

[Magic Man]

Have a read of Darkenless posts for stater, then Logician in this forum, I must admit that Dorken take first prize though. Whose existence are these fellows denying? If you can think of something, it exist.

Please respond to what I actually said, not to what you want me to have said. I said no one here is attacking or blaming God. I've read many posts from both of those posters. Please provide a specific post that you think is attacking or blaming God. That way I can show you why you're wrong.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Faith is a useful tool for avoiding answering difficult questions...

Faith is also a useful tool that alows people to grow beyond normal means because they believe in something that they never would otherwise believe possible. Never underestimate the power of faith.

 

[darkendless]

Have a read of Darkenless posts for stater, then Logician in this forum, I must admit that Dorken take first prize though. Whose existence are these fellows denying? If you can think of something, it exist.

You really do amaze my Emiliano, especilly since we live in the same country. If i think the boogey man exists then does he? Come on, stop being rediculous its beyond a joke.

 

[darkendless]

O rly? Please, show me the "intolerance". You don't see me bashing atheists as you bash theists. Perhaps we use different definitions of intolerance. You and Copernicus revile theists for their faith, only to use it yourself to guard your precious atheism. I am completely underwhelmed by your intellectual dishonesty that prevents you both from seeing your own hypocrisies in all of this. You are no better than members of the religious right for your intolerance here.

You are. You're attacking my opinion because you don't like it. Atheism is not precious to me, i just hate seeing the BS spread around on this forum and the debates that a ruined because a theist drops a faith bomb to defend themselves. You are the one who's dishonest, you're the one attacking us because we hold certain views. I dont attack your views i simply question christianity for leaning so heavily on faith when its wishful thinking at best. Your best insult is to accuse me of the same garbage you're pulling.

 

[emiliano]

You really do amaze my Emiliano, especilly since we live in the same country. If i think the boogey man exists then does he? Come on, stop being rediculous its beyond a joke.

What amazes me is your insistence in debating religion/spirituality with me, you are good for laugh, you have no idea of what you are getting on, you don’t understand nor should you be expected to, what do you know about faith? You have listed more Characteristic of God than a nun could, yet you say that you don’t believe that God exist, why are you so bitter against Christianity? What happen to you? Does all this causes you emotional damage?

 

[emiliano]

Faith is also a useful tool that alows people to grow beyond normal means because they believe in something that they never would otherwise believe possible. Never underestimate the power of faith.

Good post, I also think that faith is a power from God given to those that He has mercy on, without this power man can not ascent to spiritual truth.

 

[Copernicus]

O rly? Please, show me the "intolerance". You don't see me bashing atheists as you bash theists. Perhaps we use different definitions of intolerance. You and Copernicus revile theists for their faith, only to use it yourself to guard your precious atheism. I am completely underwhelmed by your intellectual dishonesty that prevents you both from seeing your own hypocrisies in all of this. You are no better than members of the religious right for your intolerance here.

Scuba Pete, I don't much care to get into a debate over whether you are tolerant or intolerant. People can judge such things from the content of your posts. I do not recall what I have said to make you think that I revile theists for their faith. I disagree with theists about belief in God, but I do not disrespect or revile them because of that disagreement. And if anyone here has ever felt disrespected by me merely because of what they believe, then I sincerely apologize. That apology applies to you as well. However, that does not mean that I respect every aspect of your behavior.

 

[emiliano]

You really do amaze my Emiliano, especilly since we live in the same country. If i think the boogey man exists then does he? Come on, stop being rediculous its beyond a joke.

It ain’t that hard, I just point out to you a place where God exist, in your mind boy! That is the first step, then as you should know by observation, things that exist in the mind also exist in reality. What do you know of the God of the Bible?
What’s with the patriotism? What residing in the same country got to do with the discussion?
If someone discuses the boogey man as often as you do, it exist in your mind, it can only be a representation of something that exist in reality. And what is your answer to “Is faith a useful tool? Mine is that is the perfect tool, it comes form a perfect being, God is perfect and so is His gift as you can see.

 

[Copernicus]

If someone discuses the boogey man as often as you do, it exist in your mind, it can only be a representation of something that exist in reality. And what is your answer to “Is faith a useful tool? Mine is that is the perfect tool, it comes form a perfect being, God is perfect and so is His gift as you can see.

Emiliano, Darkendless asks a valid question. How do you distinguish between things that exist independently of your imagination and things that you merely imagine? When you talk about perfection, you are talking about a maximum quality. The problem with perfect beings, as with perfect anything, is that we can imagine things that are more perfect than what actually exists.

 

[emiliano]

Emiliano, Darkendless asks a valid question. How do you distinguish between things that exist independently of your imagination and things that you merely imagine? When you talk about perfection, you are talking about a maximum quality. The problem with perfect beings, as with perfect anything, is that we can imagine things that are more perfect than what actually exists.

I think that you got it, Darkenless ? Most of the time I don’t know what he is going on about, I ignore him for that reason, but he insist in debating me. It some kind of gift of mine I attract such complicated individual, at time I think that is more of curse, though
Now to your response God is a being so great that no human mind can imagine Him, that’s what makes Him God, perfect and needing /lacking nothing, needing no improvement, perfect. That is the main characteristic of maximum quality. We cannot imagine God, thus God must exist.

 

[darkendless]

I think that you got it, Darkenless ? Most of the time I don’t know what he is going on about, I ignore him for that reason, but he insist in debating me. It some kind of gift of mine I attract such complicated individual, at time I think that is more of curse, though
Now to your response God is a being so great that no human mind can imagine Him, that’s what makes Him God, perfect and needing /lacking nothing, needing no improvement, perfect. That is the main characteristic of maximum quality. We cannot imagine God, thus God must exist.

It appears that God is conditional. He fits whatever situation you theists put him in. why is it we can't imagine God yet so many try to give him human morals and characteristics? Such as saying "God wouldn't like this." Does faith allow you to pick and choose whether God would act in this situation or not? I ask this because on one hand through prayer he apparently helps many people, but why does he not help starving people? I asked this is another thread and someone said we have to do it ourselves. But then why pray? If God doesn't help whats the point?

 

[Magic Man]

I think that you got it, Darkenless ? Most of the time I don’t know what he is going on about, I ignore him for that reason, but he insist in debating me. It some kind of gift of mine I attract such complicated individual, at time I think that is more of curse, though

You write something like this and then say you don't know what someone else is going on about? Now, that's irony.

Now to your response God is a being so great that no human mind can imagine Him, that’s what makes Him God, perfect and needing /lacking nothing, needing no improvement, perfect. That is the main characteristic of maximum quality. We cannot imagine God, thus God must exist.

"We cannot imagine God, thus God must exist"? Does that actually make sense to you?

If we can't imagine God, then why are there so many people so quick to describe him and speak for him?

 

[Copernicus]

If we can't imagine God, then why are there so many people so quick to describe him and speak for him?

I like to refer to this tactic as the "ineffability defense". It is a fallback position when all else fails. God is perfectly understandable up to the point where he fails to explain our condition and our situation. At that time, he becomes "ineffable"-- impervious to human understanding. God is as understandable as he needs to be to sustain belief, but no more so.

 

[emiliano]

It appears that God is conditional. He fits whatever situation you theists put him in. why is it we can't imagine God yet so many try to give him human morals and characteristics? Such as saying "God wouldn't like this." Does faith allow you to pick and choose whether God would act in this situation or not? I ask this because on one hand through prayer he apparently helps many people, but why does he not help starving people? I asked this is another thread and someone said we have to do it ourselves. But then why pray? If God doesn't help whats the point?

As I have told you so many times, you cannot ascent to the believe in spiritual beings unaided by God, unless God gives you the gift of faith you will remain godless and reprobate, a good example is conversion to Christianity every convert is the result of someone’s prayers that moves God to mercy, one thing that is inseparable from God is His sovereignty He gives faith to save who He wants, that is why not everybody is of His flock. Not all are His children Joh 1:11 He came to His own, and His own received Him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received Him, He gave to them authority to become the children of God, to those who believe on His name,
We pray for guidance, to find what His will is, what we must do here is one example: Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. You have received freely, freely give.
Become a doctor, or a religious minister.
And this one, may be they meant this: Jam 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, to visit orphans and widows in their afflictions, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.
Pray to God to give you the means to do these things, when God’s provides, He always does it in abundance, ask yourself why, and act accordingly “visit orphans and widows in their afflictions, and keep oneself unspotted from the world”