Father alone is God

[ElishaElijah]

Please quote the scripture that says that. Thanks.


Wait a minute!!!
Why would one need to interpret something that speaks for itself, and gives the explanation?


I did not say you are similar to Pharisees... but if you believe the cap fit...


I did not say you are not like Jesus, but since you believe the cap fits...
The saying is true, "If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then..."
Were you being aloof? Then yes, that does not imitate Jesus, but imitates the Pharisees.

I don't mind one sharing scripture, but this is not a religious community which share all things in common, and share scriptures.
This is a forum where... In fact, let me allow the forum to speak for itself...
Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Iymus, Jan 5, 2020.
So this is not the place to be just sharing scriptures.
By all means, support what you say with scripture, yes. That is most welcomed here, and very much welcomed by me.
Providing scripture certainly has its place.
My question was not answered though.

However...
You say, "When someone rejects that Jesus is God who came in the flesh that is from Satan or the anti-Christ."
That's what you say. that's what you believe. Now which scripture says that?
Here is an appropriate opportunity to "share" scripture.


Are you implying I am tempting you?
Are you implying that I am twisting scripture, then please say which scripture I twisted.
I only recall referring to the scripture you quoted. Quote 'And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.'

Can you please tell us how saying the Word is begotten by the father, is twisting the scriptures?


My righteousness before God? Is that not a personal matter between myself and God?
Is God looking for perfection?
(Psalm 130:3) . . .If errors were what you watch, O Jah, Then who, O Jehovah, could stand?
Paul acknowledged his imperfection, at Romans 7, and the scriptures say, there is not one man righteous before God, who does not sin. Ecclesiastes 7:20 - For there is no righteous man on earth who always does good and never sins.

If you mean perfection in a relative sense - that is, perfect from God's standpoint. Yes, the Bible says we must be perfect as our heavenly father is perfect.
(Matthew 5:48) . . .You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

God declares a person righteous based on their faith backed up by works (Not works of Law).
Galatians 2:15-21 ; James 2:14-26

So the wages of sin is death, all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, we must be perfect, without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin, there’s none righteous no not one. That’s man, but Jesus is the God/Man, perfect, separate from sinners, the Passover lamb, perfect sacrifice, exact representation of The Father, all the fullness of the Godhead in bodily form, who by Himself made atonement for our sin. Any created being would be totally inadequate to pay the price for all humanities sin. Only God Himself could do that. 1John answers your other question.

 

[moorea944]

I’m saying it is one of many verses that speaks of Jesus as God, His titles and ministry. Jesus Christ was worshipped while He walked the earth, given
the name above all names, worshipped in Heaven, only God receives worship.
“Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
Who is the Creator? Father or Son? Jesus is the “exact” representation of the Father, no created being can be an exact representation of eternal God, only God can be that. You’re missing what God has done and the length He came to redeem us by making atonement for us Himself.

[I’m saying it is one of many verses that speaks of Jesus as God, His titles and ministry. Jesus Christ was worshiped while He walked the earth, given the name above all names, worshiped in Heaven, only God receives worship.]
People worshiped Jesus to the glory of the father.

[“Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,]
Did you read the whole chapter?

First of all, your version is a bad translation. But anyhow, look at the next verse... "But made himself of no reputation". Plus, Jesus was in the form of God, so shall we be too. We want to be Godly people. Absolutely!!

Now look at verse 11. "And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Did you read that? To the glory of the father.... People did worship Jesus, but it was always to the glory of the father.

[Who is the Creator? Father or Son? Jesus is the “exact” representation of the Father]
Bible doesnt say "exact representation". It says image of...

[no created being can be an exact representation of eternal God, only God can be that. ]
Jesus was a created human that was in the "Image of God'. Jesus was a man, God is a God. Two different things here..

[You’re missing what God has done]
No i'm not. Your adding in words that arent even mentioned in the bible.

 

[ElishaElijah]

[I’m saying it is one of many verses that speaks of Jesus as God, His titles and ministry. Jesus Christ was worshiped while He walked the earth, given the name above all names, worshiped in Heaven, only God receives worship.]
People worshiped Jesus to the glory of the father.

[“Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,]
Did you read the whole chapter?

First of all, your version is a bad translation. But anyhow, look at the next verse... "But made himself of no reputation". Plus, Jesus was in the form of God, so shall we be too. We want to be Godly people. Absolutely!!

Now look at verse 11. "And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Did you read that? To the glory of the father.... People did worship Jesus, but it was always to the glory of the father.

[Who is the Creator? Father or Son? Jesus is the “exact” representation of the Father]
Bible doesnt say "exact representation". It says image of...

[no created being can be an exact representation of eternal God, only God can be that. ]
Jesus was a created human that was in the "Image of God'. Jesus was a man, God is a God. Two different things here..

[You’re missing what God has done]
No i'm not. Your adding in words that arent even mentioned in the bible.

How are your sins forgiven?

 

[ElishaElijah]

[I’m saying it is one of many verses that speaks of Jesus as God, His titles and ministry. Jesus Christ was worshiped while He walked the earth, given the name above all names, worshiped in Heaven, only God receives worship.]
People worshiped Jesus to the glory of the father.

[“Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,]
Did you read the whole chapter?

First of all, your version is a bad translation. But anyhow, look at the next verse... "But made himself of no reputation". Plus, Jesus was in the form of God, so shall we be too. We want to be Godly people. Absolutely!!

Now look at verse 11. "And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Did you read that? To the glory of the father.... People did worship Jesus, but it was always to the glory of the father.

[Who is the Creator? Father or Son? Jesus is the “exact” representation of the Father]
Bible doesnt say "exact representation". It says image of...

[no created being can be an exact representation of eternal God, only God can be that. ]
Jesus was a created human that was in the "Image of God'. Jesus was a man, God is a God. Two different things here..

[You’re missing what God has done]
No i'm not. Your adding in words that arent even mentioned in the bible.

“And Jesus answered and said to him, “Get behind Me, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.’ ””
‭‭Luke‬ ‭4:8‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Why do you think repeating what you believe is meaningful?
Let's consider what the Bible says.
You quoted a text in the Bible which says the Word is begotten of the father. In harmony with John 3:16.
Begotten - brought forth. Thus the Word had a beginning - was created... by the father.
Again, according to post #149, what would that mean?

How about this? The physical human Jesus had a beginning. He was begotten the same way a human child is begotten, by being born from a woman. But the Word was eternal, he was there at the beginning as a spirit being just like the Father is a spirit being. So humans also have a spirit. Maybe the spirit that was in the human Jesus was the spirit that was the Word at the beginning of creation. Physical man begotten of a woman, spiritual God who was with the Father at the beginning.

 

[nPeace]

How about this? The physical human Jesus had a beginning. He was begotten the same way a human child is begotten, by being born from a woman. But the Word was eternal, he was there at the beginning as a spirit being just like the Father is a spirit being. So humans also have a spirit. Maybe the spirit that was in the human Jesus was the spirit that was the Word at the beginning of creation. Physical man begotten of a woman, spiritual God who was with the Father at the beginning.

Which book are you reading? Please read the book of John Chapter 1.
Then please read John 3:16.
The scriptures refer to the son of God.
His being begotten is not being applied to his human birth.
God sent his only begotten son, whom according to John, was the only begotten of the father.
Is that not what we read in scripture? Are you of the belief that the Word is not God's only begotten son?

...we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father...
God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son

Nowhere in the Bible, does it say the Word was eternal.
Even if such a notion was true, then there would be no father son relationship. In your scenario, it would be Joe God, and Jack God - not even brothers, but fathers, since you also believe Jesus is the creator. They would be equal. the Bible says not. Just read Jesus words, and Paul's at 1 Corinthians 15
27 
For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him.
28 
But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.

Unbelievable.
If anyone tried to convince me that a Trinitarian does not want to be blind, I would smile in their face and say, "Sure....and I am Jesus Christ."
Jesus however said, he came to save the lost, and I believe 2 Peter 3:9

 

[nPeace]

So the wages of sin is death, all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, we must be perfect, without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin, there’s none righteous no not one. That’s man, but Jesus is the God/Man, perfect, separate from sinners, the Passover lamb, perfect sacrifice, exact representation of The Father, all the fullness of the Godhead in bodily form, who by Himself made atonement for our sin. Any created being would be totally inadequate to pay the price for all humanities sin. Only God Himself could do that. 1John answers your other question.

What makes the angels different to the Word?
Allow God's word the Bible, to give the answer.

Hebrews 1:4 - New King James Version
4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

So, the angels too, like the Word, are perfect.
The Word was chosen. Why? Hebrews 1:2 . . .he appointed heir of all things, ... through whom he made the systems of things. . .
Hebrews 1:7-9
7 Also, he says about the angels: “He makes his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.” 8 But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne forever and ever, and the scepter of your Kingdom is the scepter of uprightness. 9 You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.”
Ephesians 1:9, 10
9 by making known to us the sacred secret of his will. It is according to his good pleasure that he himself purposed 10 for an administration at the full limit of the appointed times, to gather all things together in the Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth. Yes, in him
John 3:16, 17
16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him.

Could we ask for a clearer answer than that?
God is the one who appointed his only begotten son for this special assignment, because he knew that out of all his sons - Note please - all his sons - all of whom are brethren - his companions, partners (μέτοχος, ου, ὁ), his only begotten son - the word, loved righteousness and hated lawlessness. In other words, he proved to be a loyal obedient and faithful son.
Hence, this one was unlikely to fail. he would thus carry out God's will and purpose, to save mankind from sin and death, and unite again, all things in heaven, and earth.

Is that not a very simple thing to understand - written clear as day?

 

[ElishaElijah]

What makes the angels different to the Word?
Allow God's word the Bible, to give the answer.

Hebrews 1:4 - New King James Version
4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

So, the angels too, like the Word, are perfect.
The Word was chosen. Why? Hebrews 1:2 . . .he appointed heir of all things, ... through whom he made the systems of things. . .
Hebrews 1:7-9
7 Also, he says about the angels: “He makes his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.” 8 But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne forever and ever, and the scepter of your Kingdom is the scepter of uprightness. 9 You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.”
Ephesians 1:9, 10
9 by making known to us the sacred secret of his will. It is according to his good pleasure that he himself purposed 10 for an administration at the full limit of the appointed times, to gather all things together in the Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth. Yes, in him
John 3:16, 17
16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him.

Could we ask for a clearer answer than that?
God is the one who appointed his only begotten son for this special assignment, because he knew that out of all his sons - Note please - all his sons - all of whom are brethren - his companions, partners (μέτοχος, ου, ὁ), his only begotten son - the word, loved righteousness and hated lawlessness. In other words, he proved to be a loyal obedient and faithful son.
Hence, this one was unlikely to fail. he would thus carry out God's will and purpose, to save mankind from sin and death, and unite again, all things in heaven, and earth.

Is that not a very simple thing to understand - written clear as day?

How are you going to get your sins atoned for? How are you going to get right with God seen as His wrath rests on you this very hour because of sin and rebellion?

 

[ElishaElijah]

What makes the angels different to the Word?
Allow God's word the Bible, to give the answer.

Hebrews 1:4 - New King James Version
4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

So, the angels too, like the Word, are perfect.
The Word was chosen. Why? Hebrews 1:2 . . .he appointed heir of all things, ... through whom he made the systems of things. . .
Hebrews 1:7-9
7 Also, he says about the angels: “He makes his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.” 8 But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne forever and ever, and the scepter of your Kingdom is the scepter of uprightness. 9 You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.”
Ephesians 1:9, 10
9 by making known to us the sacred secret of his will. It is according to his good pleasure that he himself purposed 10 for an administration at the full limit of the appointed times, to gather all things together in the Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth. Yes, in him
John 3:16, 17
16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him.

Could we ask for a clearer answer than that?
God is the one who appointed his only begotten son for this special assignment, because he knew that out of all his sons - Note please - all his sons - all of whom are brethren - his companions, partners (μέτοχος, ου, ὁ), his only begotten son - the word, loved righteousness and hated lawlessness. In other words, he proved to be a loyal obedient and faithful son.
Hence, this one was unlikely to fail. he would thus carry out God's will and purpose, to save mankind from sin and death, and unite again, all things in heaven, and earth.

Is that not a very simple thing to understand - written clear as day?

Brother, read the whole letter of Hebrews

 

[nPeace]

Brother, read the whole letter of Hebrews

You disagree with the earlier parts? What do you disagree with, and why?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Which book are you reading? Please read the book of John Chapter 1.
Then please read John 3:16.
The scriptures refer to the son of God.
His being begotten is not being applied to his human birth.
God sent his only begotten son, whom according to John, was the only begotten of the father.
Is that not what we read in scripture? Are you of the belief that the Word is not God's only begotten son?

...we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father...
God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son

Nowhere in the Bible, does it say the Word was eternal.
Even if such a notion was true, then there would be no father son relationship. In your scenario, it would be Joe God, and Jack God - not even brothers, but fathers, since you also believe Jesus is the creator. They would be equal. the Bible says not. Just read Jesus words, and Paul's at 1 Corinthians 15
27 
For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him.
28 
But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.

Unbelievable.
If anyone tried to convince me that a Trinitarian does not want to be blind, I would smile in their face and say, "Sure....and I am Jesus Christ."
Jesus however said, he came to save the lost, and I believe 2 Peter 3:9

1. Hoq is a child "begotten"? A man and a woman have sexual relations and nine months later a baby is born. The child was "begottan" by his parents. God caused Mary to become pregnant. Nine months later Jesus was born. He was "begotten" of God using Mary as his human mother. 2. John says "the Word was God". God is eternal. The Word is eternal. The Word was an eternal spirit that became begotten in a human body as Jesus.

 

[moorea944]

How are your sins forgiven?

We pray to God through Jesus. Can Jesus forgive sins too? Yes. We read that in the Gospels. But that doesnt make him God. So can certain angels in the OT and Apostles had the authority too.

 

[moorea944]

“And Jesus answered and said to him, “Get behind Me, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.’ ””
‭‭Luke‬ ‭4:8‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Yes, that's so true. Jesus is saying here, God comes first. The LORD your God is not Jesus. Why would you even want to think that?

John 17v3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
What does that verse mean to you? How do I get eternal life? I have to really know who God is and who Christ is. The only true God and then it says, and Jesus Christ.... There is only one true God and that one true God sent... his son to do something.

Look at Deut 18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name,

God is in control of Jesus. God is talking through his son. Just like the angels did, they had the power and authority of God. They were given that.
We see the same here with Jesus, he shall speak in my name........

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

No not at all. The Body which HE took from the womb of the Blessed Virgin Mary is the body that HE coupled in her womb. That body did not form from any sperm OR egg from any man or woman. In fact, what has not been well understood, is that the reason the Blessed Virgin Mary is called a virgin, is because she had not yet reached puberty. She was 12! How has nobody wondered this? Its because history perverted our mindsets, we didn't see it is as anything abnormal. So she was not even in a state where procreation was poossible. So the body that HE coupled, is the body that HE took from the womb, and that body was coupled by GOD incubating on her womb, with HIS WORD. What am I sharing here? Do you deserve to hear it? I will wait before I go further.

That body that HE coupled in her womb, is the kind that is Word built, and it was coupled in the image of Father Adam. But Father Adam was never born a baby, but as a full grown man. So HIS ministry did not start until a certain time.

Indeed, Man is a Spirit Being, programmed in the soul, and baptized into the womb of a woman at certain time in the womans pregnancy. The body that Man takes from the womb, to give that man access into the earth, is formed by sperm and egg. We are not our body, we are a Spirit Being. And the Soul is what keeps the two together. Think about it for a moment, the Spirit Being is above the laws and bounds of this earth. How can the Spirit Being remain in a physical body thatis earthy? That is what the soul does. The Soul is what welds the Spirit and body.

Jesus His Pre-Eminence is GOD in the flesh. The Most Holy Spirit of GOD is who picked up that body that HE , the GOD, coupled in the womb of the Blessed Virgin Mary. The body that HE took from her womb is not HIS physical body. GOD has HIS own physical body. HE wore it when HE came to Abraham as Melchizadek. Where did HE take that body from? That is HIS own body.
The problem has been that the church has not known HIS true identity. It is HIS words that we are supposed to rate the highest above all. Yet, where is it they go to for wisdom? Proverbs.. Jesus His Pre-Eminence said: A greater than Solomon is here. Is it the Law Moses or the Prophet Elijah? On the Mountain of transfiguration we were told: To hear ye HIM. What about saul paul?
No, its HIS Words that we are supposed to hold in the highest regard above all that was spoken before, or after. Because HE is GOD. HE is not a Prophet that is saying what he heard, HE is GOD.

The only one that we are supposed to receive, is the one HE said HE will send, which HE revealed to us in HIS messages. Who is that person?

A wonderful religious story from someone with no religion. Actually many 12 year old girls have become pregnant. Mary was called a virgin because she had not had sex. There is no reason God could not form an egg and sperm in her womb.

 

[ElishaElijah]

You disagree with the earlier parts? What do you disagree with, and why?

The Gospel I received 30 years ago was God loves you, your sins have separated you from God, Jesus Christ is God who became man by the God the Holy Spirit through Mary the virgin, lived a perfect life, died on the Cross for my sins and offers eternal life and forgiveness through Him. I received Jesus Christ, turned away from my sin and He filled me with His Spirit and I was changed, born again. I don’t see the Scriptures the
same as you do, the Holy Spirit has taught me different.

 

[Yahcubs777]

A wonderful religious story from someone with no religion. Actually many 12 year old girls have become pregnant. Mary was called a virgin because she had not had sex. There is no reason God could not form an egg and sperm in her womb.

The body HE took had mystery divine nature. It was not formed by sperm or egg. What do you think it means: Immaculate conception? Here is a question for you, how did Judas betray Jesus His Pre-Eminence? They people made it clear they knew where HE came from, and where HE stayed.

Not all 12 year old girls go through puberty at 12. Some younger, some older. In Blessed Virgin Mary case, she had not yet started. Let me put it as simple as possible for you. The reason why HE knew no sin, is because HE didn't have blood in HIS body.

 

[nPeace]

1. Hoq is a child "begotten"? A man and a woman have sexual relations and nine months later a baby is born. The child was "begottan" by his parents. God caused Mary to become pregnant. Nine months later Jesus was born. He was "begotten" of God using Mary as his human mother. 2. John says "the Word was God". God is eternal. The Word is eternal. The Word was an eternal spirit that became begotten in a human body as Jesus.

You believe what you want. God sent his only begotten son.

 

[nPeace]

The Gospel I received 30 years ago was God loves you, your sins have separated you from God, Jesus Christ is God who became man by the God the Holy Spirit through Mary the virgin, lived a perfect life, died on the Cross for my sins and offers eternal life and forgiveness through Him. I received Jesus Christ, turned away from my sin and He filled me with His Spirit and I was changed, born again. I don’t see the Scriptures the
same as you do, the Holy Spirit has taught me different.

You are not interested in discussion. Take care.

 

[ElishaElijah]

We pray to God through Jesus. Can Jesus forgive sins too? Yes. We read that in the Gospels. But that doesnt make him God. So can certain angels in the OT and Apostles had the authority too.

The Gospel I received was Jesus is God, emptied/ humbled himself and became a man, died for my sin, rose from the dead and is coming back glorified. God the Holy Spirit was given to me when I received Jesus Christ and I’ve been born again. I know this.

 

[ElishaElijah]

How are your sins forgiven?

I’m not worshipping anyone but God alone, no man to the glory of God or anything of the sort. No created being deserves any worship, God alone,
anything else is idolatry.