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Fear of God?

S

spanjo

Member
Odion said:
Bit...sloppy of the translators to keep that translation when it's falling out of usage, isn't it? How many people do you know who would say "I fear my husband", and if someone did say that to you, would you not be concerned for them? :shrug:
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You are right, the language of the bible is very different from the language of today. There are bibles that have attempted to 'modernize' the language. I prefer the KJV myself, I believe it is the most accurate translation of the original.
 
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waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
spanjo said:
You guys are interpreting fear wrong in this instance. In this case it is meant more as respect. See dictionary.com

1 John 4:18

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear..."
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there in lies the contradiction.

god's love is conditional, "who so ever believes"
and it accompanied by an ultimatum "shall not perish" john 3:16

you don't see how fear mongering is a constant message in the bible?
exodus 20: 5
You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I, the Lord, your God, am a jealous God, responding to the transgression of fathers by dealing with children to the third and fourth generations of those who reject me
:eek:
no thanks, i respond better to understanding and patience better than threats. wouldn't you?

god will not accept us unless we let him live through us vicariously.
can you imagine telling your child, 'sorry, no matter how hard you try you will never please me unless you let me live through you'
as a parent, i would not want my child to be an exact replica of me...
as a parent i am to nurture their individuality and independence.
 
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S

spanjo

Member
god's love is conditional
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God's love is not conditional, our acceptance of it is. The fruit is the same for all, but it is up to us to partake of it.

If I told a child, "don't touch that stove or you will be burned", am I instilling fear in that child? Yes. If I didn't warn the child, would I truly love him?

god will not accept us unless we let him live through us vicariously.
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It is not God that rejects us, it is us that reject God. He does not live through us vicariously. God does not need us, He loves us, and desires that we live with Him again. He has shown us the way through His holy prophets.
 
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waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
spanjo said:
God's love is not conditional, our acceptance of it is. The fruit is the same for all, but it is up to us to partake of it.

If I told a child, "don't touch that stove or you will be burned", am I instilling fear in that child? Yes. If I didn't warn the child, would I truly love him?


It is not God that rejects us, it is us that reject God. He does not live through us vicariously. God does not need us, He loves us, and desires that we live with Him again. He has shown us the way through His holy prophets.
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what do you think "whosoever believes" is?
it's a condition. read my post again

i'm not talking about playing with fire, i'm talking about god living through us vicariously...there is a big difference.
read my post again

how can one reject something that is unseen? it's not rejection is logical and reasonable to conclude there is no god.
 
strikeviperMKII

strikeviperMKII

Well-Known Member
tumbleweed41 said:
It is my strong opinion that a God who demands fear from his followers is unworthy of worship, and in fact, reflects an anthropomorphic God that contains the very human destructive emotions of vengeance, hate, jealousy and low self esteem.
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A god who has such human things is in fact not a god at all, but a human. Why do you think god would have such human traits?
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
spanjo said:
It is not God that rejects us, it is us that reject God. He does not live through us vicariously. God does not need us, He loves us, and desires that we live with Him again. He has shown us the way through His holy prophets.
Click to expand...

he rejects us if we don't believe...the conditional ultimatum.
 
S

spanjo

Member
what do you think "whosoever believes" is?
it's a condition. read my post again
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That is our condition to accepting His love. He has no condition on loving us.

It is like a child that rebells and leaves his father's house. Is that child going to feel of his father's love? Nope. He might get occasional reminders or letters from his father that he loves him, but he will not feel of it until he accepts his father's love. That same father out of love for his child, will likely warn him of the consequences of his actions and lifestyle. Unless, the child can overcome pride, he will never fully experience his fathers love. It IS conditional for the child, not for the parent.

i'm not talking about playing with fire, i'm talking about god living through us vicariously...there is a big difference.
read my post again
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He doesn't live through us vicariously.
Read my post again
 
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Alex_G

Alex_G

Enlightner of the Senses
tumbleweed41 said:
To prevent the derailing of a thread on the merits of biological evolution, I am re-posting the following quote here...



It is my strong opinion that a God who demands fear from his followers is unworthy of worship, and in fact, reflects an anthropomorphic God that contains the very human destructive emotions of vengeance, hate, jealousy and low self esteem.
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Yeah, a totalitarian regime, dictatorship, big brother, compulsory love and unavoidable fear. Sound like the worst that human kind has to offer!
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
strikeviperMKII said:
And you know this...how? Because a 2000 year old book told you? Not exactly the best argument in the world, but it is the most common.
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because of john 3:16
that is what i am refuting.
i'm only pointing out the contradictions...
conditional vs. unconditional and the fear mongering of god..

don't understand what you're getting at? :confused:
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
spanjo said:
That is our condition to accepting His love. He has no condition on loving us.

It is like a child that rebells and leaves his father's house. Is that child going to feel of his father's love? Nope. He might get occasional reminders or letters from his father that he loves him, but he will not feel of it until he accepts his father's love. That same father out of love for his child, will likely warn him of the consequences of his actions and lifestyle. Unless, the child can overcome pride, he will never fully experience his fathers love. It IS conditional for the child, not for the parent.


He doesn't live through us vicariously.
Read my post again
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i didn't ask for a condition...
the difference with your story and reality is that every one dies...
that is not god waiting for his son to return, rather putting a condition. after midnight his son will turn into a pumpkin... no turning back. a condition god places.

the bible perpetuates that no good can come from mankind. only goodness is from god. if this were true, then what moral act can a believer do that a none believer can't?
if a believer thinks they are morally superior than non-believers they are letting god live through them vicariously... without realizing everyone has the same ability to do good with or without believing in god.
 
S

spanjo

Member
waitasec said:
because of john 3:16
that is what i am refuting.
i'm only pointing out the contradictions...
conditional vs. unconditional and the fear mongering of god..

don't understand what you're getting at? :confused:
Click to expand...

John 3:16 -

"For God so loved the world" - Unconditional love
"that he gave his only begotten son" - Proof of his unconditional love
"that whosoever believeth in him, shall not perish" - God is both just,
"but have everlasting life." - and merciful

I think you are confusing love with lawless chaos.
 
S

spanjo

Member
he difference with your story and reality is that every one dies...
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I believe he is talking about spiritual death, or damnation, rather than physical death.

the bible perpetuates that no good can come from mankind. only goodness is from god. if this were true, then what moral act can a believer do that a none believer can't?
if a believer thinks they are morally superior than non-believers they are letting god live through them vicariously... without realizing everyone has the same ability to do good with or without believing in god.
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I don't disagree with you here, except for on one point. The bible does not say that man cannot DO good, it says that "there are none good but God". There is a difference. I also believe that there is no such thing as a bad person. Men can do much good or bad of their own free will. This life is a probationary state, we do not become good or bad until God deems us good or bad at final judgement. Hence, we are not to judge others.

You should check out Mormonism, it is the softer side of christianity. The non-believers don't have too much to worry about.
 
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