Ferguson: Moving on..why none of this will mater...

[oldbadger]

The problem here in Ferguson was something that could not be avoided.

Ah..... the armchair expert spouts off ...... could not be avoided. This has yet to be ascertained. You certainly are no detective...... best stick to what you do.

There is nothing that could or should have been changed.

An ignorant pov ........ we don't know whether the incident could have been handled differently. The officer could have already been suffering from over-stress.

If you assault someone with a gun, you don't get to complain you were shot. :slap:

You write poorly..... do you mean 'if you assault somebody who has a gun, or you yourself are holding a gun?'

Your lack of knowledge in this entire field has been exposed for all to read. You place your stupid posts high.... for all to read.

 

[oldbadger]

Let's start with Ferguson. You said that place had the problem with police shootings.

There was a shooting in Ferguson which has lead to serious concerns..... leading all the way to the White House.

I question if you have any slightest idea of how many deadly police shootings there were to support your conclusion.

I conclude that there is a serious situation in Ferguson. Do you feel differently?

Is the problem the police or is the problem the violence in these communities especially when you consider black on black crime which of course would be acted out on police such as captured on video with Mike Brown robbing a store. And then later assaulting a police officer and even trying to take the cop's gun.

This is news to me....... have you seen a video of the assault on the officer? That's what your para looks like.

GHow many times was the victim shot? Do you know?

 

[oldbadger]

I just want to tell you how much I am appreciating your informed insight. It's helped me understand something about police brutality. Here I thought the job attracted violent thugs. But now I think becoming excessively violent is a consequence of the working environment.

Sorry your insights are wasted on the others, and sorry their posts are bullying and abusive. I'm surprised they are taking it so personally.

Thankyou......
I have history with one member....
The other is young......

This would be a perfect form of low conflict training for a law enforcement trainee. If that trainee loses it.... then she/he might not be right for the streets.....

 

[oldbadger]

The hard reality is that police regularly use excessive and deadly force when they are in no danger at all, and there is no public accountability for cop-on-civilian violence. Those are the issues people are concerned about. Not the encounters where the violence is justifiable. Those are the issues old badger is addressing in his posts.

Yes! Yes! :yes:

This has happened in Britain as well. Several times.
Some will have been caused by bad ops, but some can be caused by time-traumatised cops......... which is the fault of the establishment through poor .... everything.... as already explained.

I'm glad you have come here to debate...... very glad.

 

[oldbadger]

If people are willing to call the Ferguson case an unjustified police shooting WITHOUT waiting for all of the facts, why should I trust your assessment or theirs when it comes to all other police shootings?

Look....... you are shooting off your opinions very fast, whilst accusing others of doing same. Nobody has pointed any fingers at the op in the Ferguson incident on this Thread as far as I know. We were discussing cop-trauma until you barged in.

I've got to tell you....... one way of discovering high-conflict and potentially dangerous ops was to get a conversation like this going and then step back and listen. I've got to tell.... honestly..... I would not have dared to put you through for field training.

 

[oldbadger]

You know I love ya baby, go easy.



But facts are facts, if you assault an officer or endanger, you may get shot. Period.


All understanding the context and the definition and interpretation of "endangerment I solely up to an officer" who may make mistakes. BUT has every right to go home at the end of the day.

I love to watch you backing off......... :biglaugh:

This was never about that one officer..... as far as I wrote it was about time-trauma and stress-threshholds..... assessment reviews and retraining.

You yourself offer good practice at handling low-conflict situations. I had fun.

 

[oldbadger]

You just discount the witness that states the guy could have went for the cops gun.

..... your English doesn't get any better, does it?

How many times was the man shot?

I await the final reports about the incident. That will take a very long time. I put my bet on the officer having left his stress-thesh-hold and there was no vehicle to pick up on such conditions or handle them. In which case the officer has been let down.

 

[oldbadger]

No one is stating cops do not make mistakes.

They do, and they do show bias.

It really is a crappy job, babysitting criminals. I would be jaded and biased.



All the more reason to avoid them, and to listen to them very carefully, because you may only get one chance.

I love to watch you in reverse gear........ you know when you're beat!

 

[oldbadger]

I disapprove of this thread. Why ? Because "mater" should be "matter", with two ts---not one.

.... somebody could have been calling for their mother....?

 

[AgnosticBoy]

I've got to tell you....... one way of discovering high-conflict and potentially dangerous ops was to get a conversation like this going and then step back and listen. I've got to tell.... honestly..... I would not have dared to put you through for field training.

Not that I care much for your assessment of me but you should really stick to the topic and debate 'logically' or objectively, at the least. Being a cop is not for me since I'm in school for psychology. That's enough about me and your thoughts of me.

You and others have claimed that there's a "problem" in Ferguson. What is the problem if the cop was justified? Or is the problem the non-critically thinking protestors and race baitors?

 

[AgnosticBoy]

Look....... you are shooting off your opinions very fast, whilst accusing others of doing same. Nobody has pointed any fingers at the op in the Ferguson incident on this Thread as far as I know. We were discussing cop-trauma until you barged in

Yes I barged in and I got straight to the point by calling out unreasonable thinking among other things. What opinions or conclusions have I drawn that are unsupported? My position on Ferguson matter is to suspend judgment in terms of who was right or wrong and I do that because there is conflicting information and we don't have all of the facts.

Not to say that I'm perfect but it would be hard to say I'm wrong when my starting point or foundation is to remain agnostic on issues like these until we have enough data or until there's a clear picture.

 

[oldbadger]

Not that I care much for your assessment of me but you should really stick to the topic and debate 'logically' or objectively, at the least. Being a cop is not for me since I'm in school for psychology. That's enough about me and your thoughts of me.

.... the debate, for me, is about training, assessment, counselling and reviews... so mentioning the field-stage of training is pertinent. The example was perfect.
...psychology, eh? Well.... you clearly haven't yet learned about stress-thresholds. You've got a long way to go....

You and others have claimed that there's a "problem" in Ferguson. What is the problem if the cop was justified? Or is the problem the non-critically thinking protestors and race baitors?

President Obama has acknowledged that there is a problem in Ferguson. Wake up!

 

[AgnosticBoy]

.... the debate, for me, is about training, assessment, counselling and reviews... so mentioning the field-stage of training is pertinent. The example was perfect.
...psychology, eh? Well.... you clearly haven't yet learned about stress-thresholds. You've got a long way to go....

Yes.. I'm not aware of any study that applies to cops or anything that would justify the conclusion that deadly force is avoidable in all cases. All I've done is ask QUESTIONS about your views on stress. If you're just a cop then id question what makes you an expert in counseling and stress management if youve had no academic and clinical training along with having your work peer-reviwed by real experts and scientists.

 

[oldbadger]

Yes I barged in and I got straight to the point by calling out unreasonable thinking among other things. What opinions or conclusions have I drawn that are unsupported?

How can training reviews, stress assessments, counselling be unreasonable thinking? You're funny.

My position on Ferguson matter is to suspend judgment in terms of who was right or wrong and I do that because there is conflicting information and we don't have all of the facts.

Not to say that I'm perfect but it would be hard to say I'm wrong when my starting point or foundation is to remain agnostic on issues like these until we have enough data or until there's a clear picture.

Ah.... no. No you don't. You have shown prejudgement from the very start. You have shown yourself to be, shall we say, opinionated? Here, for your enjoyment, are just some of your previous writings. Read and enjoy your prejudice..... :biglaugh:

..............What does stress training do to protect a cop from a criminal with a gun or who is physically assaulting people?

.................. with Mike Brown robbing a store. And then later assaulting a police officer and even trying to take the cop's gun.

......... Mike Brown allegedly attacked the cop which led to the fatal head shot. .....................

 

[MysticSang'ha]

The Ferguson PD incident report on the Michael Brown shooting can be read here in its entirety at Scribd.

It seems to be lacking in some details.

Like, all of them except for location and names.

My understanding is that officers can retract statements legally, but does the PD itself have the authority to redact or omit details in the incident?

 

[outhouse]

Training will help.

At the end of the day though, the outcome will be the same. The officer wants to go home at the end of shift.

 

[outhouse]

The Ferguson PD incident report on the Michael Brown shooting can be read here in its entirety at Scribd.

It seems to be lacking in some details.

Like, all of them except for location and names.

My understanding is that officers can retract statements legally, but does the PD itself have the authority to redact or omit details in the incident?

Not sure if that is even credible. only 1 page opens for me

On the 22nd they were stating it had not been released nor could it due to ongoing investigation.

It would not surprise me if fakes were out

 

[AgnosticBoy]

How can training reviews, stress assessments, counselling be unreasonable thinking? You're funny.

Saying there's a problem with cops using excessive force in the US and particularly in Ferguson without any evidence is unreasonable to draw a conclusion from. Seeing how noncritical you are on these matters I hope your data on stress factors comes from real experts and objective sources.

Ah.... no. No you don't. You have shown prejudgement from the very start. You have shown yourself to be, shall we say, opinionated? Here, for your enjoyment, are just some of your previous writings. Read and enjoy your prejudice..... :biglaugh:

You quote me as saying, "What does stress training do to protect a cop from a criminal with a gun or who is physically assaulting people?"

Notice the question mark. I was asking and not giving a view. Next quote of me,

".................. with Mike Brown robbing a store. And then later assaulting a police officer and even trying to take the cop's gun."

Yes there is video footage of Mike Brown so my view of the first statement is based on verifiable, or I should say now verified, evidence. The second statement I should've specified it is something that's been alleged. Here's your last quote of me,

"......... Mike Brown allegedly attacked the cop which led to the fatal head shot. ....................."

Your last quote of me I clearly specified it was something that's been alleged. Any other False representations of my view?

 

[AgnosticBoy]

President Obama has acknowledged that there is a problem in Ferguson. Wake up!

President Obama is not always right nor is he above logic and evidence and he's offered nothing to support either side. Please stick to talking about stress because that seems to be the only thing you come close to being reasonable at.

 

[Alceste]

The Ferguson PD incident report on the Michael Brown shooting can be read here in its entirety at Scribd.

It seems to be lacking in some details.

Like, all of them except for location and names.

My understanding is that officers can retract statements legally, but does the PD itself have the authority to redact or omit details in the incident?

And that right there is another serious issue for concern. Whether or not a cop-on-civilian killing is deemed "justifiable", transparency is needed. Otherwise, they look like they're hiding something, which only serves to invigorate the protesters calls for justice.

As I said in the other thread, these folks who make liberal use of the words "thug" and "robber" and the phrase "assaulting a police officer" in reference to the victim while imploring the rest of us to "wait until the facts all come to light" before rushing to judgment don't seem to realize that we will be waiting forever.

There is no built-in system of public accountability in the US for cops who kill. They virtually never go to trial, and the police routinely obstruct any public effort to seek out details about the killing.

Thank god for cell phones, that's all I can say.

And thank god for this guy, who is single-handedly attempting to track and compile a public database of deadly police violence.

Spreadsheets | Fatal Encounters
(Did I get that link from you? I think so! Posting it again in the hope that the noisy boys will take a look this time and actually address it.)