FGM in Australia and the US: nothing to do with Islam?

[Rival]

the majority of Muslims in the first world do not support FGM in any way.

Female Genital Mutilation Rates By UK Borough Revealed As Southwark In London Tops The List | HuffPost UK

One female genital mutilation case reported every hour in the UK

A case of female genital mutilation (FGM) is either discovered or treated at a medical appointment in England every hour, according to analysis of NHS statistics by a charity.

Between April 2015 and March 2016 there were 8,656 times when women or girls attended doctors' surgeries or hospitals and the problem was assessed — the equivalent of one every 61 minutes.

 

[Revoltingest]

Maybe you haven't been looking, but there are many, many, many feminists who are strongly against both.

Oh, but I have.
It's why I added the qualifier, "largely".
I considered the frequency & volume of cries against FGM v MGM.
And as I allowed earlier, many feminists are on my side.
If there concern for FGM is greater, that's understandable, since
FGM is often far more radical & disabling.

Some issues are very difficult to hold forth upon.
If I inject too much balance, people are offended at the balance.
If there's too little balance, then different people take offense.
So I'm balancing a balance between balance & non-balance.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

FGM is widely practiced in Muslim enclaves here in the UK. Sure I can agree that lack of education has something to do with it, but isn't the whole cause because the UK has a good education system.

Evidence that those who practice it in the UK were educated there? And again, evidence of 'wide practice'?

 

[YmirGF]

Evidence that those who practice it in the UK were educated there? And again, evidence of 'wide practice'?

Between April 2015 and March 2016 there were 8,656 times when women or girls attended doctors' surgeries or hospitals and the problem was assessed — the equivalent of one every 61 minutes.

A case every hour isn't wide spread enough for you? Seriously?

 

[icehorse]

I know that many of you are on my side of this issue. And it's great that you say so.
But I'm continually amazed that so many also favor MGM (usually for religious reasons)
while rejecting the identical argument for FGM (including similarly less drastic versions).
I figure all such cultural/religous cosmetic surgery is for the kid to decide when old enuf.
Tis their choice to decide whether "God's commandment" is malarky or sacred.

I think comparing MGM to FGM is a really false equivalency.

 

[Rival]

Evidence that those who practice it in the UK were educated there? And again, evidence of 'wide practice'?

This article says they come from FGM practicing countries however FGM affects 137,000 women in England and Wales, reveals shocking new study

Also :

UK: The Crisis of Female Genital Mutilation

This is interesting as it says:

"Britain has the highest levels of FGM in Europe. According to a government-funded study published in 2007, at least 66,000 women and girls in Britain have had the procedure performed on them, and more than 20,000 girls under the age of 15 are currently at risk."

"Sometimes immigrants living in other European countries even send their daughters to Britain to have them mutilated there. In an interview with the BBC, Isabelle Gillette-Faye, an anti-FGM activist in France, recounts the story of two little girls about to board a train for London."

"In Bristol, a city in southwest England with a sizeable immigrant community, it is believed that some 2,000 girls are at risk of "FGM parties." According to the BBC, "They cut them all together, as a group, because it is cheaper and quicker that way. At first the girls are all excited because it's a party, until they realize what is going to happen, and then they get frightened. It's done by the elder women, or the Imam, whoever is expert at cutting.""

FGM 'parties' taking place in Britain as 8,000 girls undergo illegal practice

"What we're finding now is that where once girls were taken abroad to be cut, specialist midwives are now flown over and several girls are cut at the same time, which then leads to a celebration.""

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Yes, I'm really hard on Islam. Islam is a collection of really bad ideas, and FGM is one of them. It's also the case that Islam appears to be the primary way that the practice of FGM gets spread around the world.

Except, as already been established, FGM has as much to do with Islam as it does Christianity and Judaism. The only common thread is isolated communities and lack of education.
But at least you're honest in that you aren't looking for ways to help victims of FGM, you're looking just to criticize Islam, lumping it all into one single practice and belief.

 

[Rival]

Except, as already been established, FGM has as much to do with Islam as it does Christianity and Judaism. The only common thread is isolated communities and lack of education.
But at least you're honest in that you aren't looking for ways to help victims of FGM, you're looking just to criticize Islam, lumping it all into one single practice and belief.

Did you watch the video? It explains how it is linked to Islam.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think comparing MGM to FGM is a really false equivalency.

Of course you do.
It's a convenient way to dismiss it without actually considering it.
The fact that both are unneccesary cosmetic genital surgery is completely irrelevant, eh?
Moreover, I never said they're equivalent, & even explained the normally greater degree of FGM.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

This article says they come from FGM practicing countries however FGM affects 137,000 women in England and Wales, reveals shocking new study

Also :

UK: The Crisis of Female Genital Mutilation

This is interesting as it says:

"Britain has the highest levels of FGM in Europe. According to a government-funded study published in 2007, at least 66,000 women and girls in Britain have had the procedure performed on them, and more than 20,000 girls under the age of 15 are currently at risk."

"Sometimes immigrants living in other European countries even send their daughters to Britain to have them mutilated there. In an interview with the BBC, Isabelle Gillette-Faye, an anti-FGM activist in France, recounts the story of two little girls about to board a train for London."

"In Bristol, a city in southwest England with a sizeable immigrant community, it is believed that some 2,000 girls are at risk of "FGM parties." According to the BBC, "They cut them all together, as a group, because it is cheaper and quicker that way. At first the girls are all excited because it's a party, until they realize what is going to happen, and then they get frightened. It's done by the elder women, or the Imam, whoever is expert at cutting.""

FGM 'parties' taking place in Britain as 8,000 girls undergo illegal practice

"What we're finding now is that where once girls were taken abroad to be cut, specialist midwives are now flown over and several girls are cut at the same time, which then leads to a celebration.""

Yes, I agree. It's terrible. And I admit that it's bigger in Europe than I thought. Though it's still pretty clear that it's being practiced largely by immigrants, not native populations who have been exposed to the quality education they need.

 

[Sunstone]

This is one of the best researched articles on Female Genital Mutilation I've ever seen.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes, I agree. It's terrible. And I admit that it's bigger in Europe than I thought. Though it's still pretty clear that it's being practiced largely by immigrants, not native populations who have been exposed to the quality education they need.

I don't know if quality education is the cure.
I prefer severe cultural & legal sanctions.
A local doc is being prosecuted for doing it.
If guilty, I hope she rots in jail a long time.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Did you watch the video? It explains how it is linked to Islam.

I'm at work, can't watch videos while here. Im willing to bet it doesn't mention stuff like this though:
Renowned Imams Condemn FGM - Daily News from Gambia

 

[icehorse]

This is purely anecdotal;

I have never heard anything about micro-aggressions beyond one talk at a local university, and then a huge amount of people complaining about it. Perhaps it has more to do with how much you know about feminism on US campuses.

While I haven't devoted my career to gathering data on this point, I have done some research, and - by your own admission - more than you.

 

[Rival]

I'm at work, can't watch videos while here. Im willing to bet it doesn't mention stuff like this though:
Renowned Imams Condemn FGM - Daily News from Gambia

No, but it does mention Islamic authorities like Muhammad.

 

[icehorse]

I'm at work, can't watch videos while here. Im willing to bet it doesn't mention stuff like this though:
Renowned Imams Condemn FGM - Daily News from Gambia

Yes, yes, yes ADA - we KNOW that "not all Muslims" do X or think X.

The problem is that a substantial number do practice misogyny on a world-wide basis.

 

[Rival]

The problem is that a substantial number do practice misogyny on a world-wide basis.

And link it to their religion.

 

[icehorse]

Ultimately, I think if anything associating FGM with Islam is just going to make your movement received in an undesirable way to many who could help the issue be tackled.

Doh! Why didn't I think of that!? Solve the problem by ignoring one of the prime causes!

 

[ADigitalArtist]

No, but it does mention Islamic authorities like Muhammad.

So did the Imams condemning it.

 

[icehorse]

Great, then you should have plenty of said data to show me the dominance of microaggressions in university feminist circles. I would be interested if you were to show me said gathered data.

LMGTFY?