FGM in Australia and the US: nothing to do with Islam?

[ADigitalArtist]

Doh! Why didn't I think of that!? Solve the problem by ignoring one of the prime causes!

The prime cause of regimes where millions were killed was antitheism. I can play reduction to the absurd too.

 

[Rival]

So did the Imams condemning it.

This is also one of the problems with Islam. It has volumes upon volumes of ahadith that can contradict each other widely. I believe you that these Imams are invoking Muhammad, but so are those who practice FGM. This is worsened by the fact that within the Ummah there is no central authority similar to a Pope or anything, so Muslims can differ widely in the same issue and each can bring a hadith to back his assertion.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Yes, yes, yes ADA - we KNOW that "not all Muslims" do X or think X.

The problem is that a substantial number do practice misogyny on a world-wide basis.

So do a substantial number of Jews, Christians and atheists.

 

[Revoltingest]

So do a substantial number of Jews, Christians and atheists.

Of course, since we heathens have no scripture encouraging/commanding/condoning
it, we'll have a lower frequency of it than backward religions.

 

[Rival]

So do a substantial number of Jews, Christians and atheists.

Yes but Jews, Christians and atheists don't practice:

- Honour killing
- widespread FGM
- Not allowing women to drive
- Not allowing women to leave the house without a male guardian
- Claiming that a woman's testimony is worth half a man's (Shari'a)
- Having a Prophet that slept with a 9 year old girl, thus giving rise to thousands of child marriages backed up by scripture
- Polygyny (I actually support this, but many people consider it misogynistic so it's going on the list)

it goes on.

 

[icehorse]

The prime cause of regimes where millions were killed was antitheism. I can play reduction to the absurd too.

Which is to - once again and repeatedly - mischaracterize fascism. I assume you're talking about the 20th century's most heinous fascists? If so, they were antitheists the way that Hitler was a vegetarian. Their mindset was to create new dogma, not defeat dogma.

 

[Rival]

I mean can the same thing not be observed in near every theistic religion?

No, and even if you believe so, not to the degree that it can be in the ahadith volumes. It's basically just a bunch of Chinese whispers and was compiled 200 years after Muhammad.

Look at it all

 

[ADigitalArtist]

This is also one of the problems with Islam. It has volumes upon volumes of ahadith that can contradict each other widely. I believe you that these Imams are invoking Muhammad, but so are those who practice FGM. This is worsened by the fact that within the Ummah there is no central authority similar to a Pope or anything, so Muslims can differ widely in the same issue and each can bring a hadith to back his assertion.

I don't think having a central figure helps as much as you might think, given the many fragmented beliefs and practices of Catholics. And it's nor like women's issues don't have conflicting responses in Judaism. Some still believe in virginity testing being a proper thing to have been done.

 

[Rival]

I don't think having a central figure helps as much as you might think, given the many fragmented beliefs and practices of Catholics. And it's nor like women's issues don't have conflicting responses in Judaism. Some still believe in virginity testing being a proper thing to have been done.

I think you have an unfamiliarity with Islam that isn't really helping. Roman Catholics are actually quite a consistent bunch compared with Muslims.

 

[Notanumber]

Does FGM affect the birth rate?

 

[icehorse]

Goes just above alienating approximately a billion people who would also find the practice somewhere on the spectrum of distasteful to evil.

The problem is that Muslims defend every jot and tiddle of Islam. If a decent percentage of Muslims were to acknowledge that Islam has some flaws - like every other ideology - then of course alienating a 1.6 billion people wouldn't be a great approach. But Muslims stand firm. Islam is simply NOT to be criticized. That makes them pretty challenging to problem solve with.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I think you have an unfamiliarity with Islam that isn't really helping. Roman Catholics are actually quite a consistent bunch compared with Muslims.

Neverninding Roman Catholics aren't all Catholics. Not even all Papal supremacy Catholics, I've seen enough Roman Catholics alone to understand their differing beliefs on matters if Papal supremacy as well as interpretations of his words, words of past popes, priesthood and the bible as well as the catechism and otger supplemental writings.
But like it was said earlier, comparing it one to one woukd be more like comparing Christianity. One book, many, many, many inconsistent and contradicting interpretations.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Which is to - once again and repeatedly - mischaracterize fascism. I assume you're talking about the 20th century's most heinous fascists? If so, they were antitheists the way that Hitler was a vegetarian. Their mindset was to create new dogma, not defeat dogma.

Antitheism has never been anti-dogma. Some of the most dogmatic people I've met us the term. They just pretend their anti religious rhetoric is something other than dogma.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

The problem is that Muslims defend every jot and tiddle of Islam. If a decent percentage of Muslims were to acknowledge that Islam has some flaws - like every other ideology - then of course alienating a 1.6 billion people wouldn't be a great approach. But Muslims stand firm. Islam is simply NOT to be criticized. That makes them pretty challenging to problem solve with.

Liberal Christians don't believe the bible or it's ideology is flawed. Only the interpretation of the literalist. Expecting something else from Muslims would be a double standard.

 

[icehorse]

Antitheism has never been anti-dogma. Some of the most dogmatic people I've met us the term. They just pretend their anti religious rhetoric is something other than dogma.

Please - apart from those famous fascists - give me an example or two of dogma coming from anti-theists?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Yes but Jews, Christians and atheists don't practice:

- Honour killing
- widespread FGM
- Not allowing women to drive
- Not allowing women to leave the house without a male guardian
- Claiming that a woman's testimony is worth half a man's (Shari'a)
- Having a Prophet that slept with a 9 year old girl, thus giving rise to thousands of child marriages backed up by scripture
- Polygyny (I actually support this, but many people consider it misogynistic so it's going on the list)

it goes on.

Continuing to ignore the voices who speak out against those things within Islam in the effort to judge the whole of Islam won't help matters.
Neither does ignoring that both Jewish and Christian theologians defend most of these things as they happened in tgeir own holy texts.

 

[icehorse]

Liberal Christians don't believe the bible or it's ideology is flawed. Only the interpretation of the literalist. Expecting something else from Muslims would be a double standard.

horse apples.

How many Christians in the world think stoning non-virgin brides is the correct action to take?

Let me ask you this, if what you're saying is true, then what was the reformation all about? ADA, you are drawing false equivalencies here. We can agree that these are all complex systems, and that things are rarely black and white. With that said, not all shades of gray are the same.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Please - apart from those famous fascists - give me an example or two of dogma coming from anti-theists?

Theistic religions are inherently harmful.
An atheistic governance is a superior one.
Theists are inherently less logical, less free or less rational.
Atheists and anti-theists are less vulnerable to antisocial behaviors or attitudes.
I could go on.

 

[Rival]

Continuing to ignore the voices who speak out against those things within Islam in the effort to judge the whole of Islam won't help matters.

I'm not ignoring anything. You claimed that Jews and Christians etc. were basically no better, so I gave examples of things that, in my opinion, makes Islam much, much worse.

We're talking about things that are happening today, not 3,000 years ago.

 

[paarsurrey]

We hear over and over that FGM (female genital mutilation), is a "cultural thing", and has nothing to do with Islam.

But somehow this horrific bit of "culture" seems to have followed Muslim immigrants to Australia. A summary from the links below:

- It's estimated that over 80,000 girls in Australia have had FGM
- It's estimated that there are three such horrible occurrences in Australia EVERY DAY.

New Report on FGM in Australia- 3 girls per day are "at risk" - NOFGM AUSTRALIA | Protecting Girls Empowering Survivors

Women convicted over genital mutilation of girls 'showed no remorse'

Oh, and BTW, about 500,000 girls in the US have suffered FGM or are at risk.

Female genital mutilation in the United States - Wikipedia


Now, I'm a white male, "privileged" some feminists might say. But I have two daughters.

So where is the feminist outrage? Too busy dealing with micro-aggressions and man-splaining?

"FGM (female genital mutilation), is a "cultural thing", and has nothing to do with Islam. "

FGM is not mentioned in Quran. It has no origin in Quran, it is a cultural thing in Africa.
Regards