Fighting Two Fronts

[Ben Masada]

Who says they don't?

Atheists are people who haven't found God. Whether they didn't seek in the first place is another question entirely.

To seek something with a mind not to find it, is not to seek at all. It is as Jesus said: "You worship what you don't know, while we worship what we know. God is a Spirit, and Incorporeal at that. To find Him, we must seek Him in a spiritual manner." (John 4:2-24) If you look at the things created as the handiworks of God, you might find Him. (Psalm 19:1)

 

[Ben Masada]

Whats more laughable an appeal to a big beard in the sky or an acceptance that the universe is weirder than you thought?

Don't be so antagonistic Ben...I didnt say what I said is the only possible truth...I just offered an example...it could well be as you think utter bollox...but your job is to dismiss it with good argument not derision and denial.

Here resides yours and the fallacy of all Atheists. To dress the Creator of the universe with the garments of the anthropomorphic god of religions and then put up a fight against him. But here with me you, like all the others, are terribly mistaken. I don't believe in the anthropomorphic god of religions. The God I believe in is not in the sky exhibiting a big beard. This is the god of Christians and Atheists. So, your fight is not with me but with Christians.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

The God I believe in is not in the sky exhibiting a big beard. This is the god of Christians and Atheists. So, your fight is not with me but with Christians.

Ah so the Christian God has a beard as does the Atheist God (nevermind) while the Judaic God does not?

Interesting....

So Ben where is your God then?

 

[Ben Masada]

Space, time, and energy are the fundamentals. Matter is just an simplification.

On the contrary PH, what you call fundamentals here are precisely the by-products of matter. There is no energy in matter on the state of inertia. There is no time if matter is not in motion. And there is no space if it is not limited by matter. A little use of Logic sometimes can help.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

On the contrary PH, what you call fundamentals here are precisely the by-products of matter. There is no energy in matter on the state of inertia. There is no time if matter is not in motion. And there is no space if it is not limited by matter. A little use of Logic sometimes can help.

Ben...Matter is energy (and in my opinion tightly curved spacetime, which we call particles like atoms...99.99999% empty..) and I think you should read up on relativity as well...

Matter does not have to be in motion for time to exist...time is a measurement of change...a measurement of entropy...a decaying particle can be used as a measurement of time.

 

[PolyHedral]

On the contrary PH, what you call fundamentals here are precisely the by-products of matter. There is no energy in matter on the state of inertia. There is no time if matter is not in motion. And there is no space if it is not limited by matter. A little use of Logic sometimes can help.

No. No. No.

Would you like me to continue?

 

[Ben Masada]

Ah so the Christian God has a beard as does the Atheist God (nevermind) while the Judaic God does not?

Interesting....

So Ben where is your God then?

He is out of he universe. Metaphorically, the universe could be his footstool. The Judaic God is a Spirit and Incorporeal at that. Have you ever heard about the book "The Guide for the Perplexed" by Moses Maimonides? That would be a good book to read to understand what I am talking about. But of course, I understand, you have no such a time or spiritual understanding to look for something you don't want to find.

 

[Ben Masada]

No. No. No.

Would you like me to continue?

No, no, no! That's enough. I would be dead from such a bite.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

He is out of he universe. Metaphorically, the universe could be his footstool. The Judaic God is a Spirit and Incorporeal at that. Have you ever heard about the book "The Guide for the Perplexed" by Moses Maimonides? That would be a good book to read to understand what I am talking about. But of course, I understand, you have no such a time or spiritual understanding to look for something you don't want to find.

I will keep an eye out for it if you recommend it to me...and as for your last comment...come on you don't know me well enough to know that

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Okay, go ahead and laugh. I understand your point. You laugh at our jokes; we laugh at yours, and thus, we live a happy life laughing at each other.

I'm not laughing at your ideas; I'm just pointing out that your position is inconsistent.

If you find the idea of something from nothing laughable, then why don't you consider your God laughable? Did your God come from some prior thing?

And believe me, I also have sought the "Atheist god" and found only inanimated matter.

Well, there's your problem: you won't find the "atheist god", since atheists have no gods.

To seek something with a mind not to find it, is not to seek at all.

Maybe this is why you can't seem to find an atheist who you consider to be an honest seeker.

 

[Ben Masada]

Ben...Matter is energy (and in my opinion tightly curved spacetime, which we call particles like atoms...99.99999% empty..) and I think you should read up on relativity as well...

Matter does not have to be in motion for time to exist...time is a measurement of change...a measurement of entropy...a decaying particle can be used as a measurement of time.

No, PA, matter must be activated to produce energy. Matter is a substance and energy is a propriety with the capacity to produce work. Now, how do we know that the day has 24 hours? Because the earth is moving around itself. If it was inert, we would not be able to figure that time. Therefore, time is an accident of motion.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No, PA, matter must be activated to produce energy. Matter is a substance and energy is a propriety with the capacity to produce work. Now, how do we know that the day has 24 hours? Because the earth is moving around itself. If it was inert, we would not be able to figure that time. Therefore, time is an accident of motion.

Wait... so time is caused by motion, i.e. change in position over time?

I don't think you've thought this through.

 

[PolyHedral]

No, PA, matter must be activated to produce energy. Matter is a substance and energy is a propriety with the capacity to produce work. Now, how do we know that the day has 24 hours? Because the earth is moving around itself. If it was inert, we would not be able to figure that time. Therefore, time is an accident of motion.

The day isn't exactly 24 hours long. It varies by a couple of nanoseconds depending on where you're standing.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

No, PA, matter must be activated to produce energy. Matter is a substance and energy is a propriety with the capacity to produce work. Now, how do we know that the day has 24 hours? Because the earth is moving around itself. If it was inert, we would not be able to figure that time. Therefore, time is an accident of motion.

Remember Einstein?

E=MC2

Energy = Mass X speed of light squared...

Matter (mass) is concentrated energy...when two particles meet and one is made from anti matter..they both annihilate into pure energy.

The fact that we use the orbital periods of planets to mark out time does not mean that time is a product of moving bodies.

Time is purely a measurement of change.

 

[Ben Masada]

I'm not laughing at your ideas; I'm just pointing out that your position is inconsistent.

So, we are in the same boat, because I also find your position inconsistent.

If you find the idea of something from nothing laughable, then why don't you consider your God laughable? Did your God come from some prior thing?

Because in essence God is eternal. There is no beginning in eternity. Atheists are too materialistic to understand the spirituality of God, which is beyond the universe.

Well, there's your problem: you won't find the "atheist god", since atheists have no gods.

Every time an Atheist refers to the universe as eternal, he is making of the universe his god.

Maybe this is why you can't seem to find an atheist who you consider to be an honest seeker.

Is there one? They all seem to be rather sick in their power to undertand metaphorical language.

 

[Ben Masada]

Remember Einstein?

E=MC2

Energy = Mass X speed of light squared...

Matter is concentrated energy...when two particles meet and one is made from anti matter..they both annihilate into pure energy.

The fact that we use the orbital periods of planets to mark out time does not mean that time is a product of moving bodies.

Time is purely a measurement of change.

Think through what you have written above. You have rather confirmed my views. Matter in the category of concentrated energy in potential, once activated and two particles meet each other, matter with anti-matter, they annihilate each other as pure energy is produced in the process. Therefore, pure energy is an accident of matter against anti-matter. It means that matter must be involved for pure energy to be produced. Now, regarding time, you must use Logic. If a body cannot move, time cannot be accountant for. My point stands.

 

[Ben Masada]

The day isn't exactly 24 hours long. It varies by a couple of nanoseconds depending on where you're standing.

Yes sir, I got the message loud and clear. Oh! I surely did.

 

[Ben Masada]

Wait... so time is caused by motion, i.e. change in position over time?

I don't think you've thought this through.

Change and motion, they are synonyms with each other. There is change in motion and vice-verssa.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So, we are in the same boat, because I also find your position inconsistent.

What about my position is inconsistent?

Because in essence God is eternal. There is no beginning in eternity.

Special pleading.

Atheists are too materialistic to understand the spirituality of God, which is beyond the universe.

Ad hominem and a red herring. I'm not asking you to explain the atheist position, I'm asking you to explain your own.

Every time an Atheist refers to the universe as eternal, he is making of the universe his god.

I disagree, but it's a moot point since many (most?) atheists don't refer to the universe as "eternal".

Is there one? They all seem to be rather sick in their power to undertand metaphorical language.

Are you operating under the assumption that anyone who honestly seeks will arrive at the same conclusions that you did?

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

Think through what you have written above. You have rather confirmed my views. Matter in the category of concentrated energy in potential, once activated and two particles meet each other, matter with anti-matter, they annihilate each other as pure energy is produced in the process. Therefore, pure energy is an accident of matter against anti-matter. It means that matter must be involved for pure energy to be produced. Now, regarding time, you must use Logic. If a body cannot move, time cannot be accountant for. My point stands.

I don't want to belabor this but:

Unifying mass and energy

The most famous work of Einstein’s life also dates from 1905 (a busy year for him), when he applied the ideas of his relativity paper to come up with the equation E=mc2 that represents the relationship between mass (m) and energy (E).
In a nutshell, Einstein found that as an object approached the speed of light, c, the mass of the object increased. The object goes faster, but it also gets heavier. If it were actually able to move at c, the object’s mass and energy would both be infinite. A heavier object is harder to speed up, so it’s impossible to ever actually get the particle up to a speed of c.
Until Einstein, the concepts of mass and energy were viewed as completely separate. He proved that the principles of conservation of mass and conservation of energy are part of the same larger, unified principle, conservation of mass-energy. Matter can be turned into energy and energy can be turned into matter because a fundamental connection exists between the two types of substance.

Read more: Einstein's Special Relativity - For Dummies

Please ignore the fact the info comes from a For Dummies site...I just wanted something concise and quick.
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