First time hearing about the Virgin Mary

[outhouse]

What does Psalm 82:6 say? Psalm 82:1. Psalm 89:26? 2 Sam 7:14? 1 Chronicles 22:10? Jeremiah 3:19?

Right.

The people who wrote the NT were Hellenist living in the Diaspora far removed from his life and culture.

I knew you did not have a clue who his people were..

The same people calling jesus son of god, a week before were calling the emperor son of god.

Now its also obvious you don't have a clue what the context to son of god even is. The OT references speak of never refer to physical descent from God.

So please study up and learn about things before you decide to debate them. DIFFERENT OT text has different context when using this term.

the Biblical judges are called gods and the sons of God

 

[cambridge79]

My Wife and I are both Buddhist, I came into it at age 14, my wife since birth.

Recently after being hounded by a Christian woman to convert she politely excused herself and left.

Knowing absolutely nothing about Christianity she asked why the lady refered to Mary as the Virgin Mary, I explained the story of Mary and Jesus.

It was interesting to see the reaction from a woman from a Village who has not grown up with these stories.

she believes she had an affair and lied to her husband, and he convinced himself it's true through Fear of losing his beloved wife, how it grew from there is what really amazed her.

Bottom line, Virgin's Cannot give Birth, and she finds it very amusing.

No offence to Christians, just an interesting moment seeing a point of view of someone completely ignorant of any Bible teachings as we only see generally opinions from those who grew up with these stories.

As if its more normal a man that walks on water and raises the deads [emoji1]
I ve always been fascinated by the fact that all myths of other religions looks quite silly and hard to believe in, but one never tend To use that very mindset to his own religion. Like
"Oh so Greeks tought that the god Apollo was responsible of the sun moving in the sky by bringing it on his chariot, how can one possibly believe it? Yes Jesus really walked on water and Moses really parted the sea, what's strange about that?"

 

[Sleeppy]

The people who wrote the NT were Hellenist living in the Diaspora far removed from his life and culture.

I knew you did not have a clue who his people were..

The same people calling jesus son of god, a week before were calling the emperor son of god.

Now its also obvious you don't have a clue what the context to son of god even is. The OT references speak of never refer to physical descent from God.

So please study up and learn about things before you decide to debate them. DIFFERENT OT text has different context when using this term.

the Biblical judges are called gods and the sons of God

You don't want to do this, Outhouse. This isn't your concern, as you've expressed. But, I'll give you the simple truth.

Jesus answered them, `Is it not having been written in your law: I said, ye are gods? If them he did call gods unto whom the word of God came, of him whom the Father did sanctify, and send to the world, do ye say -- Thou speakest evil, because I said, Son of God I am?

Psalm 82

God hath stood in the company of God, In the midst God doth judge. Till when do ye judge perversely? And the face of the wicked lift up? Selah. Judge ye the weak and fatherless. The afflicted and the poor declare righteous. Let the weak and needy escape; from the hand of the wicked deliver them. They knew not, nor do they understand, In darkness they walk habitually. Moved are all the foundations of earth. I -- I have said, `Gods ye [are], And sons of the Most High -- all of you. But as man ye die, and as one of the heads ye fall. Rise, O God, judge the earth, for Thou hast inheritance among all the nations!

Simple truth: Jesus rightly discerned that these "sons of the Most High" were not only judges in Israel before his time; they include those among all nations, in all times.

Judgement on these things determine "sons of the Most High:

1) Judge ye the weak and fatherless.
2) The afflicted and the poor declare righteous.
3) Let the weak and needy escape; from the hand of the wicked deliver them.

You'd have to intentionally ignore the simple truth here, that this is applicable to every single person on Earth. Jesus didn't simply call himself "a son of the Most High". He acknowledges the leadership at that time, while extending the letter to those able to perform the 3 functions prescribed. The context doesn't support your assertion that these Judges whom Moses appointed, before they had even set foot into Israel, or those that died in Joshua's generation, could possibly judge the Earth up until Jesus' point, or this point.

You can think you know what you're talking about here, in context, but you really don't. The simple truth says you are wrong. The author specifically cites the "Son of God" concept that came much earlier than that of the Romans'. Period.

 

[outhouse]

You can think you know what you're talking about here, in context, but you really don't.

You don't have the education to talk down to me.

You are literally lost here. You have no clue what your even debating, because you do not have the education to do so.

You don't want to do this, Outhouse.

Do what? you don't have a leg to stand on and my words were actually sourced.

You need to know context, and you don't even have a clue nor have you done any credible research into the changing context.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_God


Historically, many rulers have assumed titles such as son of god, son of a god or son of Heaven.[1] The Roman Emperor Augustus referred to his relation to his deified adoptive father, Julius Caesar, as "son of a god" via the term divi filius which was later also used by Domitian. The motif of a person being a "son of God" is widespread in mythology as well.


exactly what I said.

Genesis[edit]
Main articles: Nephilim and Sons of God
In the introduction to the Genesis flood narrative, Genesis 6:2 refers to "sons of God" who married the daughters of men and is used in a polytheistic context to refer to angels.[32][34]

Psalms[edit]
Main article: Psalms
In Psalms 89:26-28, David calls God his father. God in turn tells David that he will make David his first-born and highest king of the earth.[16]:45[19]:150

In Psalms 82:1-8, the Biblical judges are called gods and the sons of God.[35]


exactly what I said. Don't come back with more apologetic rhetoric, provide sources.

 

[outhouse]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nativity_of_Jesus

Many scholars do not see the Luke and Matthew nativity stories as historically factual

modern scholars do not use much of the birth narratives for historical information

Many modern scholars consider the birth narratives unhistorical because they are laced with theology and present two different accounts

Vermes and Sanders dismiss the accounts as pious fiction

 

[Yoshua]

My Wife and I are both Buddhist, I came into it at age 14, my wife since birth.

Recently after being hounded by a Christian woman to convert she politely excused herself and left.

Knowing absolutely nothing about Christianity she asked why the lady refered to Mary as the Virgin Mary, I explained the story of Mary and Jesus.

It was interesting to see the reaction from a woman from a Village who has not grown up with these stories.

she believes she had an affair and lied to her husband, and he convinced himself it's true through Fear of losing his beloved wife, how it grew from there is what really amazed her.

Bottom line, Virgin's Cannot give Birth, and she finds it very amusing.

No offence to Christians, just an interesting moment seeing a point of view of someone completely ignorant of any Bible teachings as we only see generally opinions from those who grew up with these stories.

Hi Mach,

The term "Virgin Mary" was commonly used by Roman Catholics as their deity. They gave importance to Mary as the mother of the Son of God, Jesus Christ. Truly, she was chosen by God to conceived a son. It is quite amusing to hear that a virgin cannot give birth, but it happened with Mary. She was overshadowed by the Spirit of God to be pregnant.

Thanks

 

[outhouse]

Hi Mach,

The term "Virgin Mary" was commonly used by Roman Catholics as their deity. They gave importance to Mary as the mother of the Son of God, Jesus Christ. Truly, she was chosen by God to conceived a son. It is quite amusing to hear that a virgin cannot give birth, but it happened with Mary. She was overshadowed by the Spirit of God to be pregnant.

Thanks

There are many aspects involved here. One is the Hellenistic translation of the original Hebrew word meaning MAIDEN and the Hellenistic version which could be translated poorly.

Most of what you stated is known apologetic rhetoric and is not academic or historical.

 

[Yoshua]

Christians are telling me she was a virgin.

Others are saying it's a story and only the meaning matters.

Others are saying Virgin meant unmarried.

Others said her husband did not believe her and God had to show him.

Four conflicting Christian views, no wonder it's confusing, Christians are not even agreeing with each other, now if her husband did not believe her despite her so called perfection, why would I believe it without gods help.

Hi Mach,

The word "virgin" in Gk. is parthenos, a maiden, not yet married, and a woman who had no sexual relation.
parthenos: a maiden, a virgin
Original Word: παρθένος, ου, ὁ, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: parthenos
Phonetic Spelling: (par-then'-os)
Short Definition: a virgin
Definition: a maiden, virgin; extended to men who have not known women.
3933 parthénos – properly, a virgin; a woman who has never had sexual relations; a female (virgin), beyond puberty but not yet married; (figuratively) believers when they are pure (chaste), i.e. faithful to Christ their heavenly Bridegroom (2 Cor 11:2; Rev 14:4).biblehub.com

All of them are correct. She was a virgin, unmarried, a narrative story (with truth in the Bible), and Joseph (her husband) did not believe her. They are not conflicting and not confusing.

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

God is all knowing, perfect, yet the Bible that is the word of God is littered with contradictions.

It clearly states two different father's for Jesus, surely the lord speaking through the writer would get that right.

The modern bible has 14800 changes from the very first bible found.

How many stories were added and how many omitted from the Roman emperors.

Hi Mach,

Still, God is all-knowing. I don't think that the word of God is full of contradiction. There is only one Father that Jesus mentioned, the Father God. There are sources to look at if you need to dig the text rather than focusing on the claimed changes in the Bible.

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

As Buddha said, it is beyond our understanding and will not contribute to making us a better person.

I was not around during creating, may have been God, maybe God created the big bang

Who knows, absolutely no one, faith is not fact

Hi Mach,

For Christianity, faith in Jesus Christ is truth, this is much higher than a fact.

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

Serious question, why does God not show himself

Hi Mach,

God already showed Himself in the person of Jesus Christ a long time ago. This has been recorded in a book what we called "the Bible."

Thanks

 

[outhouse]

Hi Mach,

The word "virgin" in Gk. is parthenos, a maiden, not yet married, and a woman who had no sexual relation.
parthenos: a maiden, a virgin
Original Word: παρθένος, ου, ὁ, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: parthenos
Phonetic Spelling: (par-then'-os)
Short Definition: a virgin
Definition: a maiden, virgin; extended to men who have not known women.
3933 parthénos – properly, a virgin; a woman who has never had sexual relations; a female (virgin), beyond puberty but not yet married; (figuratively) believers when they are pure (chaste), i.e. faithful to Christ their heavenly Bridegroom (2 Cor 11:2; Rev 14:4).biblehub.com

All of them are correct. She was a virgin, unmarried, a narrative story (with truth in the Bible), and Joseph (her husband) did not believe her. They are not conflicting and not confusing.

Thanks

You missed the boat entirely here.

Its not about the Koine word, its about the Hebrew word almah .

 

[outhouse]

Hi Mach,

God already showed Himself in the person of Jesus Christ a long time ago. This has been recorded in a book what we called "the Bible."

Thanks

No it did not.

Jesus did not exist until the first century

 

[outhouse]

faith in Jesus Christ is truth

Personal faith does not equal truth. It equals wish and want.

Faith is defined as belief without evidence to support said belief.

 

[Yoshua]

I agree with what you said, something cannot come from nothing, so what kind of matter created God, don't tell me he was already there. That's what the fleas think about my dog they were born on, but guess what, he came from somewhere, the fleas don't know that.

Hi Mach,

Whatever we do to scrutinize and investigate how God is created, we (human) still cannot comprehend God's mind. As you've said that He is all-knowing, if He is all-knowing, that proves we are not.

Thanks

 

[outhouse]

Whatever we do to scrutinize and investigate how God is created we (human) still cannot comprehend God's mind.

Actually only humans defined the concept, and we actually see how ancient Israelites did this and combined two deities into one.

So far what we have uncovered is humans change these definitions, and if you want to understand god, you must first understand the people who wrote about him changing the definition/


Do you understand anything anthropological here, or just apologetic rhetoric with no historic value ?

 

[Yoshua]

We do have a right to discuss it as it has been thrust into our faces by God's witnesses knocking on our doors and entering villages telling us we are worshipping wrong, we therefore had the debate put to us.

We never However knock on doors preaching, our Monks will not even bother you if you enter our temples.

The only reason the curiosity began was from Christians exercising a view that we have no right to worship any religion but theirs.

As a Buddhist I always will be Buddhist but must admit Christians may be right, will find out when I die and deal with the consequences.

Right now logic prevails, as Buddha said only believe what makes sense to you and your senses, not even his teaching if they don't.

Hi Mach,

Christianity is following what Jesus Christ commanded to "Follow Him." Not all who claimed Christians agree with Jesus statements. We don't say Buddhist have no rights to worship any beliefs, it is your choice. God also gave us a free-will to choose His path or not. Jesus did not forced His disciples to join Him in the ministry.

Thanks

 

[cambridge79]

Hi Mach,

Christianity is following what Jesus Christ commanded to "Follow Him." Not all who claimed Christians agree with Jesus statements. We don't say Buddhist have no rights to worship any beliefs, it is your choice. God also gave us a free-will to choose His path or not. Jesus did not forced His disciples to join Him in the ministry.

Thanks

It never felt very moral the concept of free will to me, mainly because of heaven and hell.
Let me ask you a question: if I was pointing a gun at you and I was telling you "you can come with me or you can chose no to. If you come with me ill buy you a mansion and ill give you 10 million dollars. If you chose not to I will rape you, than I will torture you and in the end I will shoot you and kill you"

Would you really call that "letting you free to chose?" Would you say that I m giving you a fair choice here, most of all would you consider it from me a loving behaviour?

 

[Yoshua]

Some people here said virgin meant unmarried back then.

If so how was it that Joseph was going to divorce Mary when he discovered she was pregnant.

Another thing, if he was going to divorce her, they must have been married, if they were married why had they never had sex yet.

Hi Mach,

That was the natural act of man. Joseph did not touch Mary in the first place. He accepted Mary as his wife upon the confirmation of an angel in a dream.
Matt. 1:20
20. But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for that which has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

There are many aspects involved here. One is the Hellenistic translation of the original Hebrew word meaning MAIDEN and the Hellenistic version which could be translated poorly.

Most of what you stated is known apologetic rhetoric and is not academic or historical.

Hi Outhouse,

Ok. You don't like it "maiden," then let's use the dictionary from google. Does it change anything about being a virgin??
vir·gin
ˈvərjən/
noun
noun: virgin; plural noun: virgins

1. 1.
   a person who has never had sexual intercourse.
   synonyms: chaste woman/man, celibate;More
   ingénue;
   literarymaiden, maid, vestal
   "she remained a virgin"
   • the mother of Jesus; the Virgin Mary.
     singular proper noun: Virgin; noun: the Virgin
   • the zodiacal sign or constellation Virgo.
     noun: the Virgin
   • archaic
     a young unmarried woman.
     "the parable of the wise and foolish virgins"
2. 2.
   a person who is naive, innocent, or inexperienced, especially in a particular context.
   "a political virgin"

Maybe, you have another meaning of the word "virgin" that I did not know.
Thanks