For those who left the Christian Faith, let's discuss what you have discovered.

[Christian Pilgrim]

Violet!!!!! How dare you go spill the beans! You big party pooper!

Hi Catz,

I'm glad to see your on this thread too. Please share when you left the Christian Faith and decided to become a Mormon Christian instead.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

I eventually questioned all aspects of them. You're welcome to try to answer my questions, if you'd like, but it'll be futile, as I already know the answers.

The questions are:

The classic problem of evil: If God is all-good and all-loving and all-powerful, then why does evil exist?

What do we have to go on other than some people's testimonies?

Why are so many other people so sure of their religions?

Why are there so many contradictions in the Bible, and what is supposed to make me think it's anything more than a group of people in ancient times describing life through their eyes, and through the use of myths? Why am I supposed to believe any of it literally, and believe that it's inspired by God?

There are many others, but those are some of the basics. We can just let them go, though. I've been over them many times before, and I know what the answers are.

Like all Christians, I know in part. But I would love to attempt to answer your questions within the Scirptures. Let's start with question one first.

The classic problem of evil: If God is all-good and all-loving and all-powerful, then why does evil exist?

The Bible is clear that God is light, and Him there is no darkness at all. In addition, Scripture tells us that God cannot be tempted by evil. It is impossible for God to sin or to lie, or to do something against His holiness. He is the perfect moral being. We also know that God is completely sovereign, that Satan must ask for permission to act (the book of Job). We also know that God has the power to destroy Satan at any point of history. And we also know that God knew Lucifer would rebel and fall with 1/3 of the Angels. God could have created Lucifer with the ability to not fall or rebel. The answer is not free will as many may think. Scripture is clear that God does everything for His own glory and His own good pleasure. He acts according to His own wisdom and purposes... which is glorious. Evil is a mystery in the Scriptures, but evil is allowed because God is ultimately glorified through allowing evil in His creation, yet He is not the author of evil. How would we know the love of God is such depth without the cross? How did God demonstrate His love for us?

For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation. - Romans 5

How can we begin to see the glory of God but through the cross of Christ? Without the fall (evil), then there is no cross to gaze or marvel at in awe of God and His glory? Without evil, we would not be able to worship God in a way that Christans can because of what Christ has done on their behalf.

The Light of the Gospel

Therefore, having this ministry by the mercy of God,we do not lose heart. But we have renounced disgraceful, underhanded ways. We refuse to practice cunning or to tamper with God's word, but by the open statement of the truth we would commend ourselves to everyone's conscience in the sight of God. And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled only to those who are perishing. In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. For what we proclaim is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, with ourselves as your servantsfor Jesus' sake. For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. - 2 Cor 4

..when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed. - 2 Thes

But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. - 1 Peter

You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? As indeed he says in Hosea, - Rom 9

 

[Magic Man]

Scripture is clear that God does everything for His own glory and His own good pleasure.

Thanks. That about covers it, and that's my problem. That's not my idea of a loving God.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

Thanks. That about covers it, and that's my problem. That's not my idea of a loving God.

Please, let's continue. The struggle is what we think God should be like as compared to who He is. We both have to agree that the world is broken by just reading the news throughout the world today. Humanity has problems which I believe humanity cannot resolve from within. I do have to travel for the next few days for work, but please let's continue this discussion. My postings and answers will be slow for the next few days. Maybe in my absense, you can share what your belief is now, and how your faith is resolving the problems of humanity.

 

[black_jesus]

Please, let's continue. The struggle is what we think God should be like as compared to who He is. We both have to agree that the world is broken by just reading the news throughout the world today. Humanity has problems which I believe humanity cannot resolve from within. I do have to travel for the next few days for work, but please let's continue this discussion. My postings and answers will be slow for the next few days. Maybe in my absense, you can share what your belief is now, and how your faith is resolving the problems of humanity.

You surely wouldn't classify someone who stood and watched someone being mugged or killed as a moral being. So how do you calssify a God who does so as "the perfect moral being" Surely our standards can not ber set higher than Gods.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

You surely wouldn't classify someone who stood and watched someone being mugged or killed as a moral being. So how do you calssify a God who does so as "the perfect moral being" Surely our standards can not ber set higher than Gods.

Mankind is the cause of his suffering due to his continous rebellion against God. Actually, God punished the world through the one act of disobedience against Him (Genesis 3). God is just and holy, as well as loving and merciful. The cross is the act of God with all these attributes in harmony. God would be immoral if He did not demonstrate justice against a cosmic rebellion against Him.

 

[black_jesus]

God would be immoral if He did not demonstrate justice against a cosmic rebellion against Him.

Is that not the equivalent of me wanting revenge for salvery? Which most (including myself) would find ridiculous.

Mankind is the cause of his suffering due to his continous rebellion against God. Actually, God punished the world through the one act of disobedience against Him (Genesis 3). God is just and holy...

Are you serious? Just ? I mean one couple eats a freakin fruit of a tree and we get this....

 

[Magic Man]

Please, let's continue.

There's not much else to say. You hit the nail on the head. God (if the Christian concept is correct) does everything for his own pleasure, not ours. That's not a loving God. Aside from that, there's no reasons to believe such a being exists anyway.

 

[McBell]

This thread is for those who were once a professing Christian and have left the Christian Faith. Let's discuss what you have discovered. I'm open to discuss and debate anything that seems to be your reason for leaving Christianity. I am also curious in what you have replaced the Christian Faith with, whatever you're new religion or world view has become.

I have several personal issues with the God of the Bible and thus far said deity has refused to come and discuss them.

 

[invisible chzbrgr]

God is just and holy, as well as loving and merciful.

One cannot be just whilst dispensing mercy or grace, it's a contradiction.


But just so I don't get accused of going off-topic, I'll say that my family is loosely Congregationalist, I never went to church (apart from weddings/funerals), was only born once, never felt, saw, heard or needed god. I did not leave the Christian faith so much as drifted away apathetically.

 

[Phasmid]

I'm open to discuss and debate anything that seems to be your reason for leaving Christianity.

I left for a number of reasons. It started with a quiet voice that said, "This doesn't make sense" and as I learned more of the world and its history, the louder this voice became, until became so loud it was all I could hear. This was naturally quite a difficult time, full of endless questions. I asked members of the Christian community for answers and advice, but what they offered up just wasn't up to scratch. Answers were mainly to have faith... and while that's all well and good, it didn't answer my questions.

I say this before bringing up my points of contention because I want you to understand that I didn't simply decide to leave out of spite. I left because I felt it was the most intellectually honest thing for me to do. I couldn't deny my doubts and go on professing faith.

Now that that's over with, I'll simply list the questions I never recieved satisfactory answers to:

- Why has there been so much natural history before the creation of humanity (i.e. dinosaurs)?
- Why did god create creatures, which had the potential to be the dominent species on the planet (i.e. Neanderthals)?
- What makes Christianity anymore valid than any other faith system?
- How is burning in Hell for an eternity justifiable?

There are more, but those will do for a start.

I am also curious in what you have replaced the Christian Faith with, whatever you're new religion or world view has become.

I basically have no religion. I just try to live the best I can. I take a little from Buddhism in that I meditate and I try to just be in the moment i.e. not think about the future and it's possible negative outcomes. I also try to stop my ego from telling me how to live... which means being aware of what one is doing and how that relates to others (more difficult than you might expect)... but I've been a bit lax in that recently.

As per my feelings to religion... I simply have the attitude, "I don't know and I don't care". I became so weary of trying to rationally justify religion that I no longer try.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Thanks for sharing your spirual journey and qualifications. I will have to leave for the evening but look forward to our discussion. How many of the Founding Fathers were Deists? I would like to discuss the apparent conflicts and tensions found in the Christian Faith too.

I do not see how discussing the founding fathers, Christians, Christian Deists, Deists, and even Atheist, contributes to the discussion.

As for the conflicts and tensions of Abrahamic faith, they are obvious to those with an open mind, using reasonable thought.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

"As for the conflicts and tensions of Abrahamic faith, they are obvious to those with an open mind, using reasonable thought."

Well that excludes christians.

Next?

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

I do not see how discussing the founding fathers, Christians, Christian Deists, Deists, and even Atheist, contributes to the discussion.

As for the conflicts and tensions of Abrahamic faith, they are obvious to those with an open mind, using reasonable thought.

According to Scripture, reasonable thought and human wisdom is not the way to God.

Christ the Wisdom and Power of God

18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written,
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.”


20 Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. 22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

26 For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; 28 God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, 29 so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. 30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, 31 so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.” 1 Cor 1

Jesus Rejoices in the Father's Will

21 In that same hour he rejoiced in the Holy Spirit and said, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will. [2] 22 All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, or who the Father is except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”

23 Then turning to the disciples he said privately, “Blessed are the eyes that see what you see! 24 For I tell you that many prophets and kings desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.” - Luke 10

Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
and do not lean on your own understanding.

 

[Katzpur]

Hi Catz,

I'm glad to see your on this thread too. Please share when you left the Christian Faith and decided to become a Mormon Christian instead.

I'm going to get a warning for this. If you see it before it's deleted, it will have been worth it:

Up yours.

 

[blackout]

I'm going to get a warning for this. I just hope you see it before I do and it's deleted. Up yours.

Didn't even spell your name right! LOLOL!

The great OZ has spoken....

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

I'm going to get a warning for this. If you see it before it's deleted, it will have been worth it:

Up yours.

Please don't act like an angry cat. Here is a Scripture from God that should apply to both of us.

And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will. - Paul

 

[Storm]

Gee, maybe you shouldn't go out of your way to be offensive.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

This thread is for those who were once a professing Christian and have left the Christian Faith. Let's discuss what you have discovered. I'm open to discuss and debate anything that seems to be your reason for leaving Christianity. I am also curious in what you have replaced the Christian Faith with, whatever you're new religion or world view has become.

Here is the OP for all who have participated on this thread. Therefore, it is fair to assume that all who have been posting on this particular thread once was a Christian and left the Christian Faith for something else.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

To help keep peace on this thread, and on this Forum site, here are words of wisdom from above.

Retaliation

“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.

Love Your Enemies

“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. - Jesus