Indeed. It is a factual claim. It might be proven false, but I doubt it. As a bit of a tangent, notice that my claim can be clearly proven or disproven, it's not a matter of faith.
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For those who think that prophet Mohammad was a pedophile
- Thread starter FearGod
- Start date
Indeed. It is a factual claim. It might be proven false, but I doubt it. As a bit of a tangent, notice that my claim can be clearly proven or disproven, it's not a matter of faith.
JakofHearts
2 Tim 1.7
Is not having sex with a child, or "making love" to Aisha not the behaviour of a pedophile?
There are still Christians and presumably Jews that treat women badly. There are many Muslims that treat women well. Ironically in some of the Western countries where woman are treated best, Christianity is rapidly declining. It's only recently in human history that oppotunities for women to be educated and have equal rights to men have become more universal. These changes have both been supported and opposed by Christians. Its seems that great progress is being made in the East including many Muslim countries but progress has often lagged behind or completely regressed in other countries. The equality of men and women is a vitally important and contemporary issue. Thank you for your response.
JakofHearts
2 Tim 1.7
Muslims have a lot work to do with spinning the demented mind of a lonely desert nomad to sound rational.
Then you use very suspect standards for "truth".
gnostic
The Lost One
If Muhammad was 53 when he consummated the marriage, then that mean it would have happened in 623. Aisha was said to be born in 613 or 614.
That would make her 9 if she was born in 614, or 10 if it was in 613.
But the marriage was said to occur when she was younger than that at either 6 (according to Sahih al-Bukhari) or 7, but stayed with her parents until she was 9 (Sahih al-Bukhari) or 10 (according to Ibn Hisham).
This source about being 9 come from Sahih al-Bukhari, said to be the most important hadith of the Sunni, at the most reliable hadith.
This hadith was written by Muhammad al-Bukhari, a Persian scholar, living from 810 to 870 CE.
Ibn Hisham (died in 833) mainly noted for editing a biography of Muhammad, written originally by Ibn Ishaq (704 - c 765).
The biography is therefore earlier than the hadith by al-Bukhari.
Another biographer, Ibn Sa'd (784 - 785) stated that she was 12.
Personally, I don't think it matter much, if Aisha was 9 or 10 or 12, it doesn't make much differences, because she would still be a child-bride.
Also both hadith and biographies relied on traditions as their sources. I have never found traditions to be reliable, but I would guess that's all they have.
Those who wrote about Aisha being in her late teen, come from mainly apologetic authors of the 20th and 21st centuries, which make it even less reliable.
That would make her 9 if she was born in 614, or 10 if it was in 613.
But the marriage was said to occur when she was younger than that at either 6 (according to Sahih al-Bukhari) or 7, but stayed with her parents until she was 9 (Sahih al-Bukhari) or 10 (according to Ibn Hisham).
This source about being 9 come from Sahih al-Bukhari, said to be the most important hadith of the Sunni, at the most reliable hadith.
This hadith was written by Muhammad al-Bukhari, a Persian scholar, living from 810 to 870 CE.
Ibn Hisham (died in 833) mainly noted for editing a biography of Muhammad, written originally by Ibn Ishaq (704 - c 765).
The biography is therefore earlier than the hadith by al-Bukhari.
Another biographer, Ibn Sa'd (784 - 785) stated that she was 12.
Personally, I don't think it matter much, if Aisha was 9 or 10 or 12, it doesn't make much differences, because she would still be a child-bride.
Also both hadith and biographies relied on traditions as their sources. I have never found traditions to be reliable, but I would guess that's all they have.
Those who wrote about Aisha being in her late teen, come from mainly apologetic authors of the 20th and 21st centuries, which make it even less reliable.
Notanumber
A Free Man
Does any of this sound familiar with reference to this thread?
We should thank the Devil.
No wonder Islamists love David Wood, he seems to be one of the few that can understand their religion.
We should thank the Devil.
No wonder Islamists love David Wood, he seems to be one of the few that can understand their religion.
WhatAMess-enger
Member
Most pedophiles arent motivated by religious beliefs and insight. She came from a tribe where marrying daughters young is common for political reasons. It was a key to expanding islam in the early days. Also, Im not sure but I think we only know her age when they married and anything written about consummation came way later, mostly by people discrediting islam. Plus, muhammad died 9 years after they married, she was still young. She stuck with islam too and lived an influential life. So apparantly she loved him and was happy.
So he was a pederast, rather than a pedophile, you're saying?
R.e. being happy etc, his supporters are hardly gonna write otherwise.
People accept Santa Clause too. Tradition is a funny thing. Even if it false people often still accept and don't question it.
But now we live in an age of child abuse I think that this tradition is being questioned and proved false through rational proofs.
gnostic
The Lost One
All biographies, all histories and all hadiths written about Muhammad, are based on traditions, not historical facts.
The Qur'an is completely silent about Aisha's age and marriage, so the Qur'an is not at all helpful.
WhatAMess-enger
Member
I dont think so... That's more of a roman thing...
The basis of all abrahamic religions was on the fact that he would have sacrificed his own son for God. Prophets do things most dont understand. Im not muslim but I believe muhammad was a prophet for sure and the quran plays a big role in things to come
What? If he had sex with a 9 year old, that makes him a pederast. Regardless of whether he was a Roman.
I am open to the idea he was a prophet and that there is revelation mixed in to the Qur'an. But that doesn't mean the transient tradition is in any way infallible or entirely trustworthy.
I thought pederasts only did boys?
I stand corrected. My apologies.
@WhatAMess-enger - replace my use of the term pederasty with child sex abuse, if you please.
Shariah law was never intended for this age and as Islam becomes secularised will disappear.
WhatAMess-enger
Member
Of course it's not perfect, muhammad was an imperfect person and admitted it. Actually one of the main purposes of his revelation was because of how the bible was compiled and worded in some parts. It says things like Jesus was the only Son of God and he is God... Which sets up the foundation for disbeliever/atheists/ and ones that think they are God or greater...
All scriptures have created some evil things but thats because we arent perfect
Yeah, if you believe that then I have no issue with you believing this dude sexually abused a child. The problem comes when people believe he did so and believe he is a perfect moral exemplar.
Yes. The commonly accepted, by both Shia and Sunni, tale of him consummation his relationship with Aisha at 9!